First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[-Colly405-]

I see that the 6th January changes in Bristol area are on DVSA today, mostly relating to the start of the m1. But will there be more?
New:
91/92: New route - Broadmead - Temple Meads - Knowle - Hengrove. Amendment of the existing 50/50A registration.
96: New Mon-Sat route - Hengrove - Knowle - Brislington
36: Now only City Centre - Barton Hill - St Annes - Brislington
T1/T2: Changes to route & timetable, including new T3.
Y1/Y2: Changes to route & timetable
90: Changes to route & timetable
X3/X3A/X4: Changes to route & timetable
U1/U2: Changes to timetable
73: Changes to timetable

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I see that the 6th January changes in Bristol area are on DVSA today, mostly relating to the start of the m1. But will there be more?
New:
91/92: New route - Broadmead - Temple Meads - Knowle - Hengrove. Amendment of the existing 50/50A registration.
96: New Mon-Sat route - Hengrove - Knowle - Brislington
36: Now only City Centre - Barton Hill - St Annes - Brislington
T1/T2: Changes to route & timetable, including new T3.
Y1/Y2: Changes to route & timetable
90: Changes to route & timetable
X3/X3A/X4: Changes to route & timetable
U1/U2: Changes to timetable
73: Changes to timetable

Interesting with the split of the 36 into two halves, if that is what it is? What is the X3A though?

Assuming the U1/U2 are Bath rather than Bristol though?

 

[DaveHarries]

Assuming the U1/U2 are Bath rather than Bristol though?

No. Registration says Stoke Bishop Transport Hub to University of Bristol.

U1 is Stoke Bishop (Halls of Residence to be exact) to the main university campus near the Clifton Triangle while U2 is Stoke Bishop Halls of Residence to Lower Langford Vet School. Wonder if there will be more and / or extended U2 journeys? Only one U2 starts from Stoke Bishop while the rest start from / terminate at the main university campus in Clifton.

Dave

 

[carlberry]

What is the X3A though?

The X3A is the evening X3, when the simplified the three routes to two but then decided they'd have three different ones anyway!

 

[carlberry]

I see that the 6th January changes in Bristol area are on DVSA today, mostly relating to the start of the m1. But will there be more?
New:
91/92: New route - Broadmead - Temple Meads - Knowle - Hengrove. Amendment of the existing 50/50A registration.

Good old first. Never miss a chance to confuse existing passengers!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

No. Registration says Stoke Bishop Transport Hub to University of Bristol.

U1 is Stoke Bishop (Halls of Residence to be exact) to the main university campus near the Clifton Triangle while U2 is Stoke Bishop Halls of Residence to Lower Langford Vet School. Wonder if there will be more and / or extended U2 journeys? Only one U2 starts from Stoke Bishop while the rest start from / terminate at the main university campus in Clifton.

Dave

Fair enough - just surprised that the Bristol U2 is changing whilst we know that the Bath U1 and U2 are definitely changing. I didn't bother to check the DVSA site

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Good old first. Never miss a chance to confuse existing passengers!

Surprised it's not the H1/H2 (for Hengrove)

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Would be interesting to know if they still have pulse branding and Leeds all over them. Could imagine a few puzzled faces seeing that coming up the road.

This I've got to see. Do they still have the black WYCA Metro fares and passes sticker on the side too?

This oddity isn't just limted to Bristol, up in Bradford there's a Streetdeck that has First Bradford on them but the top deck is covered in Pulse branding. Worth knowing that Leeds no longer uses the Pulse branding since the inception of LeedsCity but there will be some vehicles that may still have it.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Noticed at Parkway station this evening they've revamped the next bus departure display so that all are in one list (before they were separated by stop). Confusingly, instead of showing 'Bath', 'Cribbs Causeway' or 'Chipping Sodbury' the destination is shown is shown as 'Bus station' or 'Wickwar Road'. Especially for the 19/19A which are shown as 'Bus station' in both directions! This annoying feature has been shown at other stops for some time.

 

[DaveHarries]

Fair enough - just surprised that the Bristol U2 is changing whilst we know that the Bath U1 and U2 are definitely changing. I didn't bother to check the DVSA site

=>

Dave

 

[D2007wsm]

The X3A is the evening X3, when the simplified the three routes to two but then decided they'd have three different ones anyway!

The X3A is a combination of the X3 and the X4 as it serves Pill which is an X4 during the day.

 

[Private Baxter]

The X3A is a combination of the X3 and the X4 as it serves Pill which is an X4 during the day.

This was of course the 23 when launched back in 2013.

I see that the 6th January changes in Bristol area are on DVSA today, mostly relating to the start of the m1. But will there be more?
New:
91/92: New route - Broadmead - Temple Meads - Knowle - Hengrove. Amendment of the existing 50/50A registration.
96: New Mon-Sat route - Hengrove - Knowle - Brislington
36: Now only City Centre - Barton Hill - St Annes - Brislington
T1/T2: Changes to route & timetable, including new T3.
Y1/Y2: Changes to route & timetable
90: Changes to route & timetable
X3/X3A/X4: Changes to route & timetable
U1/U2: Changes to timetable
73: Changes to timetable

Renumberings then of some of the south Bristol services bringing them a little more in line and in the 90s centering around Hengrove. Whilst I'm not really familiar with the 36 it seems that one section is being numbered 96 to be more in keeping with other routes round that way, whilst the other half is staying as it is, again slightly more in keeping with other routes in the 30s, though whether the two routes will interwork, or even stay as a through service remains to be seen.

 

[freetoview33]

I see that the 6th January changes in Bristol area are on DVSA today, mostly relating to the start of the m1. But will there be more?
New:
91/92: New route - Broadmead - Temple Meads - Knowle - Hengrove. Amendment of the existing 50/50A registration.
96: New Mon-Sat route - Hengrove - Knowle - Brislington
36: Now only City Centre - Barton Hill - St Annes - Brislington
T1/T2: Changes to route & timetable, including new T3.
Y1/Y2: Changes to route & timetable
90: Changes to route & timetable
X3/X3A/X4: Changes to route & timetable
U1/U2: Changes to timetable
73: Changes to timetable

Very interesting changes! I am thinking the 36/96 changes could include the current 513/514 services run by Stagecoach, only a feeling though.

 

[DS85]

First said they where going to pull out of the marina on the X3 if parking didn't improve so I wonder if that's the route change. If so I see a big drop in passenger numbers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This was of course the 23 when launched back in 2013.

Renumberings then of some of the south Bristol services bringing them a little more in line and in the 90s centering around Hengrove. Whilst I'm not really familiar with the 36 it seems that one section is being numbered 96 to be more in keeping with other routes round that way, whilst the other half is staying as it is, again slightly more in keeping with other routes in the 30s, though whether the two routes will interwork, or even stay as a through service remains to be seen.

Ah yes - the 23!!

As for the 36, it's one of the more interesting routes around Bristol, operating as a semi-circular route weaving around the south east corner of the city. I quite liked it when it was operated by knackered Darts and B6s; along with the 1, I think it's one of the longer lasting examples of a service number attached to a route? I know they do some "interesting" numbering changes but I really can't believe that they would split it for some OCD tidiness and run them as a through route? Guess we'll see though it's an odd one.

 

[Private Baxter]

Ah yes - the 23!!

As for the 36, it's one of the more interesting routes around Bristol, operating as a semi-circular route weaving around the south east corner of the city. I quite liked it when it was operated by knackered Darts and B6s; along with the 1, I think it's one of the longer lasting examples of a service number attached to a route? I know they do some "interesting" numbering changes but I really can't believe that they would split it for some OCD tidiness and run them as a through route? Guess we'll see though it's an odd one.

I agree it would seem a little daft, but looking at it that's what is being suggested, but as I said it's not a route I really know. Perhaps I should give the full 36 a go before January! But I'm sure there is reasoning behind it! How long has it been the 36? Any idea?

 

[-Colly405-]

Just catching up on FBB's blog, and I see that back on Wednesday there was an excerpt from teh staff newsletter intimating that "significant improvements" are planned to the 1, 2, 75, 76, 376, X39 and others in the next few months.

Interesting that the first four of those are the last significant cross-city services. Are the plans for splitting them being re-drawn/????? Pity the 96 number is being used for part of the 36, as the last time they tried splitting the 75/76 the southern half was proposed as the 95/96...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree it would seem a little daft, but looking at it that's what is being suggested, but as I said it's not a route I really know. Perhaps I should give the full 36 a go before January! But I'm sure there is reasoning behind it! How long has it been the 36? Any idea?

A very erudite individual who posts on here is responsible for the BVBG archive that states it dates from 1922 as the 36 Old Market - Barton Hill - St Annes. Since then, it has been extended to Briz and Knowle before in 1960, reaching Withywood. It was also stretched at various times to Filton, Hotwells, and even have a circular route back from Withywood and Bemmie Down into town

Just catching up on FBB's blog, and I see that back on Wednesday there was an excerpt from teh staff newsletter intimating that "significant improvements" are planned to the 1, 2, 75, 76, 376, X39 and others in the next few months.

Interesting that the first four of those are the last significant cross-city services. Are the plans for splitting them being re-drawn/????? Pity the 96 number is being used for part of the 36, as the last time they tried splitting the 75/76 the southern half was proposed as the 95/96...

You do wonder if splitting the 1/2 and 75/76 might now be on the cards? Service reliability is being decimated by the Temple Meads roadworks on the 1/2. It'll be interesting to see what's going to happen

 

[matt_splat]

Splitting the 1/2 75/76 could work well but where do you split.

Once the temple meads work is done do you split the 1/2 as a Stockwood / Broomhill to Clifton Triangle and the other one Cribbs to Temple Meads?

The 75/76 splitting in the center would also work.

You could then have the Cribbs - Center Sections of the 1/2 75/76 ran by LH and the southern section of the routes ran by Hengrove.

 

[freetoview33]

I'd support a split of the 75 and 76 as that would be easier. However splitting the 1 and 2 would be much harder without having to duplicate much of the central sections. Not impossible but I don't think it's worth it in the short term.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'd support a split of the 75 and 76 as that would be easier. However splitting the 1 and 2 would be much harder without having to duplicate much of the central sections. Not impossible but I don't think it's worth it in the short term.

Split the 1/2 in the centre? The TM to Clifton stretch is covered by the 8 anyway?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Split the 1/2 in the centre? The TM to Clifton stretch is covered by the 8 anyway?

Not sure I like cutting the number of buses between Temple Meads and the centre even more to be honest.
I understand the roadworks are causing massive reliability issues now thanks to the delays, but just removing services from Temple Meads is just going to make public transport even more awkward to use for many people.
There can be large enough gaps between services as it is now, and that is with the options we currently have. Removing the options, and gaps between services will likely get even longer.
It is why I don't like splitting routes in general anyway - it is fine if the frequency of the services is high enough that you won't have to wait long to complete your journey, but Bristol is not there yet for that. All splitting services will do is mean people's journeys will take longer and so they will be less likely to use public transport if they have the option.

 

[carlberry]

Not sure I like cutting the number of buses between Temple Meads and the centre even more to be honest.
I understand the roadworks are causing massive reliability issues now thanks to the delays, but just removing services from Temple Meads is just going to make public transport even more awkward to use for many people.
There can be large enough gaps between services as it is now, and that is with the options we currently have. Removing the options, and gaps between services will likely get even longer.
It is why I don't like splitting routes in general anyway - it is fine if the frequency of the services is high enough that you won't have to wait long to complete your journey, but Bristol is not there yet for that. All splitting services will do is mean people's journeys will take longer and so they will be less likely to use public transport if they have the option.

Theres a lot of guessing going on just because the services involved are cross city. One of Bristol's mayors recently said that he'd agreed with First that there would be an increase in the number of buses in Bristol and it could just be increased frequencies on these corridors (which are mostly not impacted by the Metrobus increases).
If the routes are split it's likely that it's to ensure they're more resilient; no matter how convenient the cross city routes are to people, VOSA is more interested in it's time keeping rules. Plus drivers get fed up of smart comments from passengers waiting in Cribbs Causeway when they're told their bus has been delayed because of the roadworks in Temple Meads!

 

[WelshBluebird]

Theres a lot of guessing going on just because the services involved are cross city. One of Bristol's mayors recently said that he'd agreed with First that there would be an increase in the number of buses in Bristol and it could just be increased frequencies on these corridors (which are mostly not impacted by the Metrobus increases).
If the routes are split it's likely that it's to ensure they're more resilient; no matter how convenient the cross city routes are to people, VOSA is more interested in it's time keeping rules. Plus drivers get fed up of smart comments from passengers waiting in Cribbs Causeway when they're told their bus has been delayed because of the roadworks in Temple Meads!

Oh I fully understand the reasoning, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I do think that cutting off Temple Meads even more from the rest of town is a bad idea!

In my view Temple Meads is losing way too many services. The 70 not calling there apart from evenings now, the 9 heavily cut with no evening or Sunday services, the 73 is having a frequency reduction in the new year, this talk of splitting the 1 and 2 so they terminate in the centre. We are in real danger of making the bus service significantly less useful for people coming and going to Temple Meads. Or at least that is what it feels like!

In terms of splitting in general - if services are to be split, then frequencies should be increased at the same time, and through ticketing needs to be introduced. As it stands now, I believe if you are making a "single" journey that requires multiple buses you actually need a day ticket. So what happens when someone who is used to paying for a single all of a sudden has to buy a day ticket? Doesn't really sit well with me!

 

[freetoview33]

If any place to split the 1/2 it would have to be Broadmead.
But in an ideal world there would be:
Cribbs Causeway - Temple Meads
Centre - Broomhill/Stockwood

 

[vicbury]

Oh I fully understand the reasoning, and I don't necessarily disagree with it, but I do think that cutting off Temple Meads even more from the rest of town is a bad idea!

In my view Temple Meads is losing way too many services. The 70 not calling there apart from evenings now, the 9 heavily cut with no evening or Sunday services, the 73 is having a frequency reduction in the new year, this talk of splitting the 1 and 2 so they terminate in the centre. We are in real danger of making the bus service significantly less useful for people coming and going to Temple Meads. Or at least that is what it feels like!

In terms of splitting in general - if services are to be split, then frequencies should be increased at the same time, and through ticketing needs to be introduced. As it stands now, I believe if you are making a "single" journey that requires multiple buses you actually need a day ticket. So what happens when someone who is used to paying for a single all of a sudden has to buy a day ticket? Doesn't really sit well with me!

Easily solvable. Much like the Airport Flyer single mtickets, standard singles could expire after one hour.

 

[carlberry]

If any place to split the 1/2 it would have to be Broadmead.
But in an ideal world there would be:
Cribbs Causeway - Temple Meads
Centre - Broomhill/Stockwood

I suspect the need for a cross town flow from Broomhill/Stockwood to Clifton is actually greater than Cribbs to Temple Meads. However both flows are what the city centre circle route was created for (some people may now call it the number 8!).

 

[freetoview33]

Was the 2A under the 50 registration, because even on the N&P I can't find any trace of the 2A!

If so it could be an insight into the changes.

50 to 91
50A withdrawn
2A to 92

 

[Private Baxter]

A very erudite individual who posts on here is responsible for the BVBG archive that states it dates from 1922 as the 36 Old Market - Barton Hill - St Annes. Since then, it has been extended to Briz and Knowle before in 1960, reaching Withywood. It was also stretched at various times to Filton, Hotwells, and even have a circular route back from Withywood and Bemmie Down into town



You do wonder if splitting the 1/2 and 75/76 might now be on the cards? Service reliability is being decimated by the Temple Meads roadworks on the 1/2. It'll be interesting to see what's going to happen

Oh wow didn't realise it was that old! Going on 100 then!
You're right, along with the 1, one of the very oldest service numbers in continous use within the city.

 

[DaveHarries]

Was the 2A under the 50 registration, because even on the N&P I can't find any trace of the 2A!

If so it could be an insight into the changes.

50 to 91
50A withdrawn
2A to 92

My thought also.

Dave