First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[freetoview33]

This will be a very harsh set of changes, probably the deepest we've seen.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

This will be a very harsh set of changes, probably the deepest we've seen.

All to do with the cliff-edge of Government funding and a lack of drivers.

 

[freetoview33]

All to do with the cliff-edge of Government funding and a lack of drivers.

100% it's just a complete joke now.

37349 having a bad day.

 

[Russel]

I note the X5 changes are October-April, is this route usually seasonal through to Weston or have I misunderstood what is happening?

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

I note the X5 changes are October-April, is this route usually seasonal through to Weston or have I misunderstood what is happening?

No, that’s just how long the X5’s new funding will last.

 

[Russel]

No, that’s just how long the X5’s new funding will last.

Ah, Okay, understood.

What are the loadings like, generally?

I used the X1 a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon, in the Weston direction it was fully loaded but heading back to Bristol was very light.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ah, Okay, understood.

What are the loadings like, generally?

I used the X1 a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon, in the Weston direction it was fully loaded but heading back to Bristol was very light.

Can't speak more recently but it was a route that was always a bit light on passengers. Back when it was a service to Cribbs, it had 4 boards - 2 had to be deckers for college workings but the others could be singles and you'd often have just a handful on a journey.

 

[Citistar]

Ah, Okay, understood.

What are the loadings like, generally?

I used the X1 a few weeks ago on a Saturday afternoon, in the Weston direction it was fully loaded but heading back to Bristol was very light.

Loadings on the X5 have been poor for some years and diminishing further. Every action taken seems to have reduced passenger numbers further (moving to Stagecoach, back to First and withdrawing Cribbs, tinkering with the route around Clevedon). It is now effectively a College service with very little of commercial merit in between.

I'm somewhat surprised that nothing has been said about saving the Locking Castle section of the service as when i've travelled on it (or when it was part of X2 and X7), that had some fairly significant usage to it - it is the sort of thing which would probably be viable if worked between well used school or college movements.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Loadings on the X5 have been poor for some years and diminishing further. Every action taken seems to have reduced passenger numbers further (moving to Stagecoach, back to First and withdrawing Cribbs, tinkering with the route around Clevedon). It is now effectively a College service with very little of commercial merit in between.

It's one of those routes (see also 37 Bristol to Bath) that has been continually messed about with.

 

[JamesGoldsmith]

Have these huge changes/cuts been properly announced today? Can’t see anything anywhere except the odd dribs and drabs of information seeping through.

 

[diffywood]

£130 million to protect bus services across the country

Funding will ensure that vital bus services can continue to run.

www.gov.uk

Besides this nothing

 

[Snow1964]

£130 million to protect bus services across the country

Funding will ensure that vital bus services can continue to run.

www.gov.uk

Besides this nothing

There is a note in the Government How to apply, that the operator needs to be operating 90% of pre-covid timetable to qualify, are First still acheiving this after all their cuts. If not have to contact them, and not clear if still eligible

4. Currently be running at 90% or more of pre-COVID-19 mileage levels – if your mileage is beneath this you must contact the Department for Transport at [email protected] and your local transport authority (LTA).

Claiming the Bus Recovery Grant

How to claim extended support from the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG).

www.gov.uk

 

[diffywood]

First to announce Friday on October cuts

Full list of 18 routes ‘to be cut’ according to the region’s mayor

First Bus is expected to make its announcement on bus services tomorrow

www.bristolworld.com

 

[Citistar]

Avon are seeking replacements for the 11, 12 and 20 in Bath and the 82 in Norton, but haven't asked all operators, just their favourites.

 

[Cesarcollie]

There is a note in the Government How to apply, that the operator needs to be operating 90% of pre-covid timetable to qualify, are First still acheiving this after all their cuts. If not have to contact them, and not clear if still eligible

Claiming the Bus Recovery Grant

How to claim extended support from the Bus Recovery Grant (BRG).

www.gov.uk

it’s 80% now - has been since BRG extension came in.

 

[Scotrail88]

it’s 80% now - has been since BRG extension came in.

Mileage is provided regularly for audit and forward projection purposes on both govt and operators sides.

Can’t imagine politicians and public being happy if someone running 79% and shut up shop.

Just look at the proposed cuts across the country and HCT and Yellow Buses closures to name a few.

Same as rail, DfT will be pushing for efficiencies and is all the same as what happened in Oxford to simplify mileage between the 2 (main) operators.

Sorry as not 100% relevant to this thread but in reply to comment.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Mileage is provided regularly for audit and forward projection purposes on both govt and operators sides.

Can’t imagine politicians and public being happy if someone running 79% and shut up shop.

Just look at the proposed cuts across the country and HCT and Yellow Buses closures to name a few.

Same as rail, DfT will be pushing for efficiencies and is all the same as what happened in Oxford to simplify mileage between the 2 (main) operators.

Sorry as not 100% relevant to this thread but in reply to comment.

At least under the current bus recovery grant (BRG) system the amount due is paid 50% up front and 50% in arrears. So there is a degree of protection against operators ceasing trading.

 

[Class 33]

So that's the 5, 72, 72A in Bristol being axed from October then. Areas like Cotham, Redland, St Pauls, and Oldbury Court Estate losing vital bus links. Not good atall. I was expecting the 72 & 72A would probably be axed though, after they changed the 8 & 9 a few years or so ago and the frequency of services serving Cotham and Redland became less and less frequent, and less reliable(frequent cancellations of the 72 & 72A in recent months). Now there'll be no services serving these areas atall.

The 41(previously the 41X) being axed though won't be a great loss to the public. As from my observations, hardly any passengers ever used this service! Was mostly just First bus drivers using it! And usually no more than about 3 passengers(well bus drivers!) on each journey! When I used the service about three or four times, each time I got on, the driver of the bus seemed surprised I was boarding it!

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

So that's the 5, 72, 72A in Bristol being axed from October then. Areas like Cotham, Redland, St Pauls, and Oldbury Court Estate losing vital bus links. Not good atall. I was expecting the 72 & 72A would probably be axed though, after they changed the 8 & 9 a few years or so ago and the frequency of services serving Cotham and Redland became less and less frequent, and less reliable(frequent cancellations of the 72 & 72A in recent months). Now there'll be no services serving these areas atall.

The 41(previously the 41X) being axed though won't be a great loss to the public. As from my observations, hardly any passengers ever used this service! Was mostly just First bus drivers using it! And usually no more than about 3 passengers(well bus drivers!) on each journey! When I used the service about three or four times, each time I got on, the driver of the bus seemed surprised I was boarding it!

The 41 is a glorified staff bus anyways, and should have never had double-deckers allocated to it

 

[freetoview33]

The 72/72a will be a big loss got one yesterday and was very busy.

 

[Simon75]

The 41 is a glorified staff bus anyways, and should have never had double-deckers allocated to it

Could be due to the fact the service is to swap buses if needed ?

 

[Tom Clayton]

The 41 is a glorified staff bus anyways, and should have never had double-deckers allocated to it

I think it was only registered to get money from the government for running it. For the double deckers, the running cards had Amazon and sb1 runs on it so had to be that bus. Plus there are barely any single decks at Lawrence Hill (LH).

 

[-Colly405-]

So that's the 5, 72, 72A in Bristol being axed from October then. Areas like Cotham, Redland, St Pauls, and Oldbury Court Estate losing vital bus links. Not good atall. I was expecting the 72 & 72A would probably be axed though, after they changed the 8 & 9 a few years or so ago and the frequency of services serving Cotham and Redland became less and less frequent, and less reliable(frequent cancellations of the 72 & 72A in recent months). Now there'll be no services serving these areas atall.

The 41(previously the 41X) being axed though won't be a great loss to the public. As from my observations, hardly any passengers ever used this service! Was mostly just First bus drivers using it! And usually no more than about 3 passengers(well bus drivers!) on each journey! When I used the service about three or four times, each time I got on, the driver of the bus seemed surprised I was boarding it!

Suggestion further up the thread is that the 47 may cover part of the 5.
But we will know later.

 

[Martin2013]

As someone with links to North Yate I feel the Y3 has been struggling for a while and the pandemic only made things worse. My dad and several other former X46 users have for a good while now preferred to use the Y1 due to the fact is more frequent and much faster. The infrequent nature of the Y3 and the risk of the one journey every 2 hours being cancelled can't be encouraging people to use it. In addition at the same time I also feel First made a mistake in routing the Y3 in a way that omits a number of the stops in residential areas of North Yate, making it difficult for the very passengers that are expected to use the service to be able to do so.

In addition I was concerned that once the Y4 was truncated to the Park and Ride, usage would decline further resulting in the service ultimately being withdrawn and my fears now seem to have been borne out.

 

[contrex]

Suggestion further up the thread is that the 47 may cover part of the 5.
But we will know later.

I couldn't find that. Which part of the 5? I live in St Werburghs and am going to be without a bus service unless I struggle over to Stapleton Road.

 

[-Colly405-]

I couldn't find that. Which part of the 5? I live in St Werburghs and am going to be without a bus service unless I struggle over to Stapleton Road.

My bad, it was on a Facebook group. A usually-reliable driver source posted that the new 47 will cover the 5 and Y5. That's all I have seen!

 

[Class 33]

I'm confused about whether these changes or cuts rather are happening or not. It was reported First would officially announce these cuts last Friday. Then it was supposed to be today. And today I read that First have said they can not confirm if those particular services are being axed yet, and will now confirm the changes/cuts next Friday. Yet I've just seen on ITV News West Country that a number of bus services are set to be axed, including the Y3, Y4 & Y5, though no mention of the 5, 72, & 72A. So all a bit confusing really.

 

[baza585]

I'm confused about whether these changes or cuts rather are happening or not. It was reported First would officially announce these cuts last Friday. Then it was supposed to be today. And today I read that First have said they can not confirm if those particular services are being axed yet, and will now confirm the changes/cuts next Friday. Yet I've just seen on ITV News West Country that a number of bus services are set to be axed, including the Y3, Y4 & Y5, though no mention of the 5, 72, & 72A. So all a bit confusing really.

Rentagob Mayor Norris spouting off prematurely, not for the first time.

Just making sure no one blames him.

 

[Dai Corner]

Rentagob Mayor Norris spouting off prematurely, not for the first time.

Just making sure no one blames him.

Aren't First waiting to find out whether Norris and his organisation want to subsidise the services that are under threat?

 

[baza585]

Aren't First waiting to find out whether Norris and his organisation want to subsidise the services that are under threat?

Yes, as far as I know. Which makes his premature announcement even more puzzling.

I suspect this is part of his expectation management. He will save a few of these routes and expect to be applauded.

His problem is the issue is primarily driver numbers, not just funding. He holds the purse strings but doesn't have a secret store of drivers (as far as we know).