First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[heathrowrail]

The 2012-14 E400s are uniformly awful things to ride on as a passenger. They clatter and bang noisily along with a ride quality that pulls off the unlikely combination of being harsh over the bumps but also wallowy. The ghastly plastic leather trim on the seats is falling to bits. The 2009 Gemini Volvos are considerably better to ride on.


I can't disagree with any of that. The decline of the East/North Bristol orbital services over the past 25 years since they were first commercialised has been excruciating. South Gloucestershire Council's insistence upon splitting the services when First withdrew from services west of Parkway towards Westbury and Shirehampton was a gross misservice to the public and they have never recovered since.

The E400s are pretty decent, the handrails just need tightening up. I rode on 33662 when she was brand new and I can tell you she never used to clatter and bang around so much, she is also the faster E400 I've ever had go up Telegraph Hill in Devon.


Everything below that I agree, the council would be better letter First run the network the way they want.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The E400s are pretty decent, the handrails just need tightening up. I rode on 33662 when she was brand new and I can tell you she never used to clatter and bang around so much, she is also the faster E400 I've ever had go up Telegraph Hill in Devon.

That was 10 years ago - we were all better 10 years ago. I did travel on 33836 a few months ago and it wasn't too bad but I travelled on one of the 12 plates just before Christmas and they are showing their age. The interiors are tired, the seats now slick and polished, the interior panels rattle (not just the handrails).

The 376 (and the 173/4) used to get regular new vehicles - in 1990, it was Lynxes, then in 1998 it was B10BLEs. 2004 and 2009 saw batches of Eclipses before the 2015 Streetdeckes. Rather than getting replaced at 7 years of age, the 376 got a fleet that was that age to replace the unreliable Streetdecks. I fear the years are beginning to catch up with them as we regularly see Bath loaning vehicles to Wells.

 

[heathrowrail]

That was 10 years ago - we were all better 10 years ago. I did travel on 33836 a few months ago and it wasn't too bad but I travelled on one of the 12 plates just before Christmas and they are showing their age. The interiors are tired, the seats now slick and polished, the interior panels rattle (not just the handrails).

The 376 (and the 173/4) used to get regular new vehicles - in 1990, it was Lynxes, then in 1998 it was B10BLEs. 2004 and 2009 saw batches of Eclipses before the 2015 Streetdeckes. Rather than getting replaced at 7 years of age, the 376 got a fleet that was that age to replace the unreliable Streetdecks. I fear the years are beginning to catch up with them as we regularly see Bath loaning vehicles to Wells.

Bath provides vehicles for the 173 now I believe instead of coming from Wells. To be fair the last "new" buses were the gas ones in 2019/2020. Seats can be recovered and panels fixed when the next big maintenance is due. I doubt First will be ordering any new buses for a while as unlike Stagecoach they can't seem to decide if they want to keep the UK bus business or sell it off.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Bath provides vehicles for the 173 now I believe instead of coming from Wells. To be fair the last "new" buses were the gas ones in 2019/2020. Seats can be recovered and panels fixed when the next big maintenance is due. I doubt First will be ordering any new buses for a while as unlike Stagecoach they can't seem to decide if they want to keep the UK bus business or sell it off.

No - these are definite loans. I believe that at the last set of changes, Wells reassumed sole operation of the 172/3/4, and gained some e400s from Bath. First departures out of Wells for Bath are at 0458 and 0517, whilst there are 172s that now start from Wells running direct to Paulton up the A39. The last two 172s (2310 and 0010) ex Bath also run through to Wells arriving 0019 and 0119 respectively.

The last new buses for West of England were the Streetdecks for Weston in Spring 2022 though you'd hope that they'd not try that experiment again! They really need something like the Excel fleet (Scania N250UD) - they have the guts for the terrain though I'd sooner not have the e400city bodies. They squeak like mice! First is investing in new fleet at the moment and did announce a big EV order in the summer https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2022/31082022.aspx

 

[M803UYA]

No - these are definite loans. I believe that at the last set of changes, Wells reassumed sole operation of the 172/3/4, and gained some e400s from Bath. First departures out of Wells for Bath are at 0458 and 0517, whilst there are 172s that now start from Wells running direct to Paulton up the A39. The last two 172s (2310 and 0010) ex Bath also run through to Wells arriving 0019 and 0119 respectively.

The last new buses for West of England were the Streetdecks for Weston in Spring 2022 though you'd hope that they'd not try that experiment again! They really need something like the Excel fleet (Scania N250UD) - they have the guts for the terrain though I'd sooner not have the e400city bodies. They squeak like mice! First is investing in new fleet at the moment and did announce a big EV order in the summer https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2022/31082022.aspx

Unless the margins have collapsed completely, the 376 was one of the most profitable services in First West of England - hence the arrival of new buses every few years. Prior to 2015 it wasn't double decked.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unless the margins have collapsed completely, the 376 was one of the most profitable services in First West of England - hence the arrival of new buses every few years. Prior to 2015 it wasn't double decked.

Indeed - it was a route that was experiencing volume growth. IIRC, the plan in 2015 was to increase to every 20 mins with Streetlites as the depot couldn't take deckers. However, transpired that it could with some modification to the doors and so the Streetlites went to Norwich and the 376 was deckered.

At the moment, they are seemingly in a self-destructive mode with the non-clockface timetable, and introduced the 379 to abstract trade. No promotion at all, and now operated by 2012/4 e400s or, and they're better as they were retrimmed and are more durable, some 2008 B9s.

If you head to flickr, the Scania N250 (shown by John G Lidstone - see link) https://www.flickr.com/photos/46986...vyRw-2iuwBLt-2iuwLjR-2iusSv2-2iB5AwD-2iusSH1/ that First specified for the Essex Airlink is the sort of investment that the 376 should have

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Discover is an interesting one. A rather bold expansion against Faresaver on the Frome and Melksham routes so that they had 3 buses per hour (two First, one Faresaver) on routes that even back in the day were only hourly. I guess it really does emphasise that wheeling in Ray Stenning is not a guarantee of success! They did put in new bus stop flags (in some places but not others - some changed in Hinton Charterhouse but others not and I don't know why) and the vehicles were smartened up and the leaflets/publicity were good but again, it wasn't long before there was some fiddling. Was the hourly Salisbury extension reduced to two hourly in a year? Melksham was surrendered just before the first Covid lockdown. What odds that the Discover brand will be dropped in favour of standard Bath City blue, again for operational convenience more than any other reason? How the D1 isn't viable on an hourly frequency between Bath and Trowbridge, I just struggle to see. The closure of Westbury outstation was also a poor decision in my eyes

I think it was about a year yes, then there was the D1X which lasted 5 minutes. Don't know how many Discover stops are left on the old D3 route but there is one still left at Potterne

I wondered about the branding too, as its not uncommon to see a Bath Blue eclipse on the D1, and recently seen a couple of Discover liveried ones more-less stripped of Discover branding, all town names on the back gone and just a D1/D2 sticker on the side, looks tacky i can only assume its an interim before eventually being painted blue?

I know a driver lived down my road who left First Bath after Westbury outstation closed, he didn't like one of the D1 shifts which was Bath through to Salisbury, short break then all the way back to Bath, which as he said when your dying for a wee its hell, got to Trowbridge on return and had to dive into a shop to use the loo, not one I could do, after a 1 hour school service drive I need to use the loo

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I think it was about a year yes, then there was the D1X which lasted 5 minutes. Don't know how many Discover stops are left on the old D3 route but there is one still left at Potterne.

I wondered about the branding too, as its not uncommon to see a Bath Blue eclipse on the D1, and recently seen a couple of Discover liveried ones more-less stripped of Discover branding, all town names on the back gone and just a D1/D2 sticker on the side, looks tacky i can only assume its an interim before eventually being painted blue?

Provided its not removed, it'd be nice to see that Discover stop flag become similar vintage as the Badgerline one in Calne and the First one in Chippenham.

As for the rehashed D1/D2 livery, it looks awful when I saw one passing me in Bath in December one thing that sprung to mind was when Discover was launched five years ago it looked refreshing and new but now it appears that after half a decade with one route being axed, one route being shortened and the other having had an addtional route grafted on to it before that too went (the D2A) I do wonder how long it'll be until the D1 and D2 is axed in favour of the 265 and 267? It really does seem to be a shadow of what it once was.

 

[sk688]

Interestingly , Dan Norris in a reply to a Lib Dem leaflet about the launch of The Big Lemon services 11 and 12 in Bath , has stated that " DRT Minibuses " will be introduced across the region from April. Will First be operating these or will it likely be an MK Connect style operation ?

 

[Citistar]

Interestingly , Dan Norris in a reply to a Lib Dem leaflet about the launch of The Big Lemon services 11 and 12 in Bath , has stated that " DRT Minibuses " will be introduced across the region from April. Will First be operating these or will it likely be an MK Connect style operation ?

They went out for tender along with the local bus services in November. The Combined Authority cancelled a meeting before Christmas where awards were due to be approved following a similar meeting in Gloucestershire (or possibly South Glos) being harangued by the Winterbourne campaigners.

The schedule for the tendering was already tighter than a sprinter's shorts, which when combined with all the glaring errors, oversights and omissions in the documentation could well produce a bus network from April which is completely hilarious.

 

[stait.john]

Streetlite 47428 has transferred from Lawrence Hill to Cymru at Ravenhill.

 

[father_jack]

73 on fire at Temple Meads this morning.

Double decker bus catches fire outside Bristol Temple Meads

Smoke billowed out of back of the First Bus

www.bristol247.com

A fire engulfed the top deck of a double decker bus outside Temple Meads train station at around 10am on Tuesday.

Smoke billowed out of back of the First Bus 73 City Line service.

In a statement, Avon Fire and Rescue Service said: “Crews from Temple were called at 10.05am to reports of a bus on fire on the approach to Bristol Temple Meads.

“On arrival, firefighters found a double decker bus well alight and used two 45mm jets to tackle the blaze. Two firefighters wore breathing apparatus for safety.

“The fire is now extinguished and crews remain at the scene to ensure its safety. There were fortunately no casualties.”

The bus had gas cylinders on board so fire crews were taking no chances.

Temple Gate heading towards Bath Road reopened at 10.45am.

Bristol24/7 has approached First Bus for a comment on the incident.

A twitter thread here which I'm sorry I can't put into quotes https://twitter.com/beardedjourno/status/1615299575329480704?t=a1PAHU5R2a7N0rnD4AcoHw&s=19

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Noticed that the 1 Weston super Mare-Sand Bay is using Streetlites. Isn't it supposed to be Volvo B9TL Wright Geminis 37629 and 37630? When does double decker operation on the 1 resume, as I'm thinking of riding the route soon but ideally I'd like to do it on a double decker.

73 on fire at Temple Meads this morning.

Double decker bus catches fire outside Bristol Temple Meads

Smoke billowed out of back of the First Bus

www.bristol247.com

A twitter thread here which I'm sorry I can't put into quotes https://twitter.com/beardedjourno/status/1615299575329480704?t=a1PAHU5R2a7N0rnD4AcoHw&s=19

Looks like the bus involved was 39469 (YN20 CDV).

On a more serious note, I hope everyone's fine

 

[AB93]

Noticed that the 1 Weston super Mare-Sand Bay is using Streetlites. Isn't it supposed to be Volvo B9TL Wright Geminis 37629 and 37630?

Not during the winter.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Not during the winter.

Ahh okay, when does it go back to double deckers? April perhaps?

 

[AB93]

Ahh okay, when does it go back to double deckers? April perhaps?

Usually around Easter although one was on the loose the other day.

 

[Westonian]

Ahh okay, when does it go back to double deckers? April perhaps?

Sand Bay is generally Streetlites in the winter but deckers are operated sometimes. 37333 was on it a couple of weeks ago and last Friday a Streetlite was changed for a Streetdeck during the day, a bit of an overkill for the 10 passengers! According to BusTimes, one of the B9 opentop was on yesterday but can't confirm that.

 

[father_jack]

Looks like the bus involved was 39469 (YN20 CDV).

On a more serious note, I hope everyone's fine

Was running empty with driver only onboard who escaped safely.

 

[150249]

Surely a 39xxx out of service for months is the last thing First need now

 

[Markk1990]

Surely a 39xxx out of service for months is the last thing First need now

I’d imagine it’s a write-off

 

[Haru]

Just need to spend a few months at ADL.

 

[Dai Corner]

The bus fire is being treated as arson

Suspected arson after bus bursts into flames | ITV News

The double-decker burst into flames near to Temple Meads station | ITV News West Country

www.itv.com

An investigation has been launched into a fire which gutted the top deck of a bus in Bristol.

The blaze is thought to have been started deliberately with police treating the incident as arson with intent to endanger life.

The double-decker burst into flames near to Temple Meads station on Tuesday (17 January).

Avon Fire and Rescue Service were called to the scene just after 10am. No casualties were reported.

Firefighters believe the blaze may have been started deliberately, with the case being handed over to Avon and Somerset Police.

 

[JamesGoldsmith]

First day of the M4? Anyone seen them in action? None are tracking on bustimes but the real-time info in the first app is working.

Intrigued to see how people react to the curtailed 73 and 19. Think there’ll be some surprised faces seeing ‘Bristol Parkway’ on the destination - most people seem unaware that such an established route is being shortened.

 

[vla50]

Edited

 

[Marcus Fryer]

First day of the M4? Anyone seen them in action? None are tracking on bustimes but the real-time info in the first app is working.

Intrigued to see how people react to the curtailed 73 and 19. Think there’ll be some surprised faces seeing ‘Bristol Parkway’ on the destination - most people seem unaware that such an established route is being shortened.

The m4 is running - I’ve seen 39338/40 and 39492 on it this lunchtime. Don’t know why they’re not tracking.

 

[150249]

The m4 is running - I’ve seen 39338/40 and 39492 on it this lunchtime. Don’t know why they’re not tracking.

39491 definitely out too

 

[Martin2013]

I went on the first m4 journey from Cribbs towards the Centre and the vehicle was 39340. A good number of enthusiasts on board most of whom were younger. There were also a large number of young chinese people (possibly students) on board one of whom sat at the front and filmed the journey.

 

[-Colly405-]

I was on that first journey too, along with my elderly brother-in-law, who can just be seen on the video posted by the Stoke Gifford Journal ...

https://twitter.com/TheSGJournal/status/1617083595096563712

Reckon there were 25-30 on it...

I was also on the last 19 off Cribbs on Saturday - about 15 on it, but I gather many got off by UWE...

 

[Snow1964]

As for the rehashed D1/D2 livery, it looks awful when I saw one passing me in Bath in December one thing that sprung to mind was when Discover was launched five years ago it looked refreshing and new but now it appears that after half a decade with one route being axed, one route being shortened and the other having had an addtional route grafted on to it before that too went (the D2A) I do wonder how long it'll be until the D1 and D2 is axed in favour of the 265 and 267? It really does seem to be a shadow of what it once was.

Not sure what the new livery is, (unless they have removed the towns no longer served since changes 12 months ago) but the dark brown always looks bad when splattered with salty road residue, and the pale yellow sand colour part now just looking faded and washed out.

Feels a run down service with faded colours and 13-14 year old buses, not one designed to encourage use.

Not sure why First have the obsolete 2019 Discover timetable still on their website either, rather than current timetable.

https://www.firstbus.co.uk/uploads/maps/d1%20discover%20tt%20leaflet%20oct19%20WEB_0.pdf

 

[father_jack]

An M1 has just run through Bristol Parkway ? Is there something going down somewhere ? https://bustimes.org/vehicles/fbri-39322?date=2023-01-24#journeys/373196236