First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[sbrignall72]

Does anyone know when 39524 is delivered and due to enter service

 

[Towielad]

I'm a bit confused, do the LeedsCity StreetDecks have branding on their coloured fronts now?

No they are still blank the whole thing is a shambles to be honest and now the blinds have misleading and stupid “Line” straplines added clearly by someone who never travels on a bus!

 

[Leeds1970]

Just incase nobody knew already

which park and ride will these be allocated to elland road or temple green ? as the all electric buses for the stourton site have been ordered and paid for directly by Metro.

No they are still blank the whole thing is a shambles to be honest and now the blinds have misleading and stupid “Line” straplines added clearly by someone who never travels on a bus!

the number 5 to Halton more has a CROSSGATES LINE header on the destination display --

 

[Towielad]

which park and ride will these be allocated to elland road or temple green ? as the all electric buses for the stourton site have been ordered and paid for directly by Metro.


the number 5 to Halton more has a CROSSGATES LINE header on the destination display --

Exactly my point the service doesn’t even touch Cross Gates similar to the 19 and 19A which have same strap line it’s quite ludicrous, likewise once the service has passed its strap line focal point like The White Rose ( a large shopping centre near Leeds) it become# both meaningless and incorrect and could lead to confusion, and frustration from intending customers, poorly thought out and rushed In!

 

[grangergranger]

which park and ride will these be allocated to elland road or temple green ? as the all electric buses for the stourton site have been ordered and paid for directly by Metro.

These are the vehicles for Park & Ride Stourton

 

[lloydyyj]

No they are still blank the whole thing is a shambles to be honest and now the blinds have misleading and stupid “Line” straplines added clearly by someone who never travels on a bus!

The lines are part of WYCA Leeds network map. All operators are showing these on their displays.

 

[Towielad]

The lines are part of WYCA Leeds network map. All operators are showing these on their displays.

A map that nobody’s seen! Lol

The whole concept is floored I’m afraid when the name routes that don’t even serve where they say it’s total gibberish clearly thought up by people who either dint have a clue where the routes actually go or don’t use them to start with!

 

[Deerfold]

The lines are part of WYCA Leeds network map. All operators are showing these on their displays.

Which might be useful if they promoted the idea at all to the general public.

 

[Seehof]

Does anybody know why silver 39505 is in York and how long it will be here for? Thank you

 

[NorthernSpirit]

A map that nobody’s seen! Lol

The whole concept is flawed I’m afraid when the name routes that don’t even serve where they say it’s total gibberish clearly thought up by people who either didn't have a clue where the routes actually go or don’t use them to start with!

I have seen the maps at selected bus stops between Leeds and Wetherby on the X98 and X99 route, there's one such map at stop L9 Wade Lane in Leeds.

 

[cnjb8]

Does anybody know why silver 39505 is in York and how long it will be here for? Thank you

39505 is one of the electric Optare Metrodeckers ordered for the York Park and Ride, it has a navy livery, not silver.
If you mean Metrodecker YJ65EPU, which is 35005, it's on loan from Optare to cover for the new buses, not sure how long though

 

[grangergranger]

Can anybody confirm the status of the remaining 90ish Streetdecks that were meant to come to Leeds? Have they been cancelled, delayed or are First Leeds ordering from ADL now?

 

[cnjb8]

Can anybody confirm the status of the remaining 90ish Streetdecks that were meant to come to Leeds? Have they been cancelled, delayed or are First Leeds ordering from ADL now?

At a guess, it depends on wether Leeds are still bringing in a clean air zone or low emission zone or whatever they feel like calling it

 

[superkev]

At a guess, it depends on wether Leeds are still bringing in a clean air zone or low emission zone or whatever they feel like calling it

Hasn't the Leeds Clean air zone (CAZ) been cancelled as the council said pollution was now much reduced (probably due to less traffic with Covid)? Perhaps new buses will be needed in Bradford where they are proposing to introduce a CAZ next February.

It will be interesting to see how any electric buses fare on Bradford's hills.
K

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At a guess, it depends on wether Leeds are still bringing in a clean air zone or low emission zone or whatever they feel like calling it

Think you're mixing your drinks. The 284 new vehicles for Leeds were as part of a deal that was to release funding for bus priority and P&R and it was First's commitment to match funding; the CAZ was independent of that.

Investment of �180m in Leeds bus services announced

Investment of �180m in Leeds bus services announced

www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

 

[cnjb8]

Hasn't the Leeds Clean air zone (CAZ) been cancelled as the council said pollution was now much reduced (probably due to less traffic with Covid)? Perhaps new buses will be needed in Bradford where they are proposing to introduce a CAZ next February.

It will be interesting to see how any electric buses fare on Bradford's hills.
K

Think you're mixing your drinks. The 284 new vehicles for Leeds were as part of a deal that was to release funding for bus priority and P&R and it was First's commitment to match funding; the CAZ was independent of that.

Investment of �180m in Leeds bus services announced

Investment of �180m in Leeds bus services announced

www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

Ah thank you

 

[Swimbar]

The MD of First York has announced his departure, on twitter, after 5 years at the helm

https://twitter.com/MarcBichtemann?s=20

Personal news – after 20 years in the UK and 5 years with @FirstYork, my family and I will be moving to Germany in July. It’s been a ‘family first’ decision and we look forward to our next great adventure.
We'll miss #York and our colleagues and friends! And @Bettys Fat Rascals! https://t.co/518nx3c4jh

 

[Tempest3K]

The MD of First York has announced his departure, on twitter, after 5 years at the helm

https://twitter.com/MarcBichtemann?s=20

Good, lets hope the replacement isn't as useless when it comes to the local routes.

 

[M803UYA]

Good, lets hope the replacement isn't as useless when it comes to the local routes.

I'm not First's biggest fan by any stretch but York is a horrible place to run buses. Gluepot traffic conditions make unpredictable congestion a nightmare to plan for any sort of reliable service, add in the medieval road system that's not designed for 21st century vehicles and it's a difficult place to make work.
The fleet in the time my parents lived there went from quite modern (post 2001 in it's entirety with a few 2 year old Volvo B7RLEs) to something more spread out and only new kit coming into the Park & Ride services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm not First's biggest fan by any stretch but York is a horrible place to run buses. Gluepot traffic conditions make unpredictable congestion a nightmare to plan for any sort of reliable service, add in the medieval road system that's not designed for 21st century vehicles and it's a difficult place to make work.
The fleet in the time my parents lived there went from quite modern (post 2001 in it's entirety with a few 2 year old Volvo B7RLEs) to something more spread out and only new kit coming into the Park & Ride services.

Indeed, York has always flattered to deceive and isn't as good or easy a territory as you might think though it has felt like it has been a step-child to either of the main First Yorkshire OpCos. The fleet is better than a few years ago when it was still dominated by B7Ls and B7TLs; it has been updated with some ex Oldham Streetlites and replacing B7TLs with B9TLs that are still quite middle-aged.

First York is one of those operations that you would think would lend itself to a bold new identity but has instead gone of the Scottish version of new Urban which is pretty insipid, and the internal condition of the B7RLEs/B9TLs is a little tired so some refurbing wouldn't go amiss; I think they did some on B9TLs though??

 

[Ken H]

Indeed, York has always flattered to deceive and isn't as good or easy a territory as you might think though it has felt like it has been a step-child to either of the main First Yorkshire OpCos. The fleet is better than a few years ago when it was still dominated by B7Ls and B7TLs; it has been updated with some ex Oldham Streetlites and replacing B7TLs with B9TLs that are still quite middle-aged.

First York is one of those operations that you would think would lend itself to a bold new identity but has instead gone of the Scottish version of new Urban which is pretty insipid, and the internal condition of the B7RLEs/B9TLs is a little tired so some refurbing wouldn't go amiss; I think they did some on B9TLs though??

fair bit of competition in York from Transdev, Reliance and Pullman. Dont know if there are many subsidised services.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

fair bit of competition in York from Transdev, Reliance and Pullman. Dont know if there are many subsidised services.

I don't think they are really in competition. They operate tenders for a range of county councils or simply run into York from outlying areas.

Transdev have a number of local routes but they are under tender to York Council and were previously operated by Arriva (I think?), who themselves continue to run in from Selby. Transdev also have their CityZap/Coastliner work. They also do the odd bit of NYCC tendered stuff taken on when Stephensons went pop, as do Reliance as well as their commercial stuff down the A19.

Pullman have both NYCC tenders (37) and also East Riding of Yorkshire stuff, as do EYMS who run in from Pocklington etc. Connexxions also run tenders for NYCC and York Councils

 

[Tempest3K]

Indeed, York has always flattered to deceive and isn't as good or easy a territory as you might think though it has felt like it has been a step-child to either of the main First Yorkshire OpCos. The fleet is better than a few years ago when it was still dominated by B7Ls and B7TLs; it has been updated with some ex Oldham Streetlites and replacing B7TLs with B9TLs that are still quite middle-aged.

First York is one of those operations that you would think would lend itself to a bold new identity but has instead gone of the Scottish version of new Urban which is pretty insipid, and the internal condition of the B7RLEs/B9TLs is a little tired so some refurbing wouldn't go amiss; I think they did some on B9TLs though??

Fact is, any refurbing should have been underway when Marc Bichtermann joined York, not as he's leaving. Other than P&R (which is obviously contracted so has a minimum mandated spec), there's been little change during his tenure other than picking up some castoffs from other OpCos and everything outside P&R still feels run down - very much a 'make do and mend' operation. Seeing as the bulk of the single deck fleet is P&R castoff's yet again, I expect this to continue and we'll go from 13 year old average age to 20+ in the local fleet - not sure what they'll do next time as the Electric Optares probably won't be fit for cascade.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fact is, any refurbing should have been underway when MB joined York, not as he's leaving. Other than P&R (which is obviously contracted so has a minimum mandated spec), there's been little change during his tenure other than picking up some castoffs from other OpCos and everything outside P&R still feels run down - very much a 'make do and mend' operation. Seeing as the bulk of the single deck fleet is P&R castoff's yet again, I expect this to continue and we'll go from 13 year old average age to 20+ in the local fleet - not sure what they'll do next time as the Electric Optares probably won't be fit for cascade.....

I don't dispute the general run-down feel, both internally and externally, and per haps his replacement may have a view on the livery/image/marketing. Not certain how much control/influence Bichtemann had on obtaining new/modern vehicles. First, as we know, have had limited capital and so new vehicle investment has limited in meeting specific requirements (e.g. Clean Air Zones) or stuff like the P&R. For standard fleet replacement, there's a lot of firms that have had to deal with castoffs.

However, I don't agree that the result is simply that you'll have a 20 year old fleet in York but that the electric Versas will stay; I just expect that more Streetlites may well appear in due course as the Eclipses get a little older.

 

[Bristol LHS]

The York fleet is knackered, but so is Norwich’s, and I get the impression (from afar) that they‘ve done a better job marketing and route branding the sows ear in Norwich than the rather run of the mill operation in York. I’d love to see Transdev or GoAhead take over the First York operation, it’s not bad territory demographically (lots of students at an out of town campus, lefty green types without cars, some outlying estates) that could be made a lot more of.

 

[Andyh82]

Like others have said, the age of the fleet isn’t the only thing, and the B7RLEs are perfectly sturdy buses, it’s the fact they are one of the few areas that has stuck with standard First livery, or a slight version of First livery.

Come up with a bright new brand and livery, and even with the same fleet, First York would look much better

 

[SCH117X]

Much depends on how well maintained vehicles are; modern vehicles are far less prone to corrosion, and that probably is Firsts weakness overall.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Much depends on how well maintained vehicles are; modern vehicles are far less prone to corrosion, and that probably is Firsts weakness overall.

I would disagree. Modern vehicles in my experience are more prone to corrosion. For all sorts of reasons (cost, the desire to save weight etc) chassis members tend to be thinner and lighter weight compared to buses of old. Overall life will still be affected by how well looked after and where they run (ie amount of salt on roads), and the manufacturing techniques, but in general terms newer buses will corrode sooner.

 

[Deerfold]

I don't think they are really in competition. They operate tenders for a range of county councils or simply run into York from outlying areas.

Transdev have a number of local routes but they are under tender to York Council and were previously operated by Arriva (I think?), who themselves continue to run in from Selby. Transdev also have their CityZap/Coastliner work. They also do the odd bit of NYCC tendered stuff taken on when Stephensons went pop, as do Reliance as well as their commercial stuff down the A19.

Pullman have both NYCC tenders (37) and also East Riding of Yorkshire stuff, as do EYMS who run in from Pocklington etc. Connexxions also run tenders for NYCC and York Councils

The only serious competition they've had in recent years was on the University Services. Transdev won the tender for these and built them up well. However, the next tender was awarded to First who ran the main service as the 66. For a couple of years Transdev carried on running their service as the 44.

 

[Scotrail88]

Is the tender not due for renewal?
If First was to lose it, it could have implications on the viability of the whole network.