First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[_toommm_]

The splitting for the 51/52 is very welcome news, it really is so unreliable. Be interesting to see if they keep the same frequencies on the split routes.

I believe they will be. I for one am very grateful as I work in Meanwood. Let’s hope they stop putting on single deckers at school leaving time as that is just ridiculous.

 

[tbtc]

Typical First… because the 508 is a “Halifax” route, it’s not listed as a change affecting Leeds, even though it’s going to affect a chunk of western Leeds given its unique Route from Farsley through Kirkstall into the City Centre

I’m not saying they should have kept it, I’ve not ridden it for years, just making a comment about someone doing the communications who hasn’t appreciated that hiding a change that withdraws the last service doing an orbital link from western Leeds to north western Leeds in the “Halifax” section isn’t going to inform the people affected by this rerouting

 

[bluenoxid]

Then add in that X11 is a Bradford route and you don’t fully get the full idea of the cuts being made until you pull three areas worth of updates together

 

[Monkeyhead]

Classic Leeds public transport. No tram for 3 decades, no trolley bus, centre of Leeds dug up and difficult to navigate, now cull the bus services and even the new park and rides. Ridiculous.

 

[Leeds1970]

now cull the bus services and even the new park and rides. Ridiculous.

it may seem ridiculous, but as previously stated the Ticketer machines are producing huge amounts of data some of which has not previously been available. and to be fair the operators are going to use this data to their advantage and map and forecast current and future passenger usage and ditch anything that either doesn't turn a profit or at least cover its costs.. i use the bus network around Leeds virtually everyday, and outside of the peak/school times passenger numbers are minimal on a vast amount of routes outside of the Headingley corridoor (even service groups such as the "Dewsbury Roads" 2/3/3A/12/13/13A that were once big money makers are struggling for patronage). unfortunately With the rise of home working /internet shopping this situation is not going to change, unless the bus industry can come up with a new unique selling point or some how create/capture a new very sizable leisure market many many more routes country wide will sadly disappear.

 

[noddingdonkey]

But the £2 fares surely render much of the data as useless? There is no benefit to tapping out so lots of journeys ending at intermediate points are registered as ending at the terminus point.

 

[dodecahedron67]

59s (Poppy Bar P&R York) registered as re-opening from April 1st according to the open data feed on dft website

 

[GusB]

Some posts have been moved to a new thread as it was drifting off-topic.

Should bus companies be more responsive to changes in travel patterns?

Mod note: Posts #1-8 were moved from the First West Yorkshire thread it may seem ridiculous, but as previously stated the Ticketer machines are producing huge amounts of data some of which has not previously been available. and to be fair the operators are going to use this data to their...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Metro / West Yorkshire Combined Authority now has the service changes listed for April on their website and as linked here: https://www.wymetro.com/media/9431/public-transport-changes-apr-2023-13801.pdf

Focusing on the changes for the services operated by First. The changes for the Colne Valley services 181/183/184/185/186 comes into action from Sunday 16th April 2023...

Service 183 to Marsden Hard End will be withdrawn and replaced by rerouted service 184 to Oldham (which is currently operated by First Manchester and will transfer to First West Yorkshire). Timetables will be revised to create an even service pattern for most of the day.

Combined service frequency will be every 15 minutes on Monday to Saturday daytimes, half-hourly via Linthwaite Church (181, 184 and 186), half-hourly direct via Manchester Road (185). Early morning journeys arriving into Huddersfield before 0715 will be withdrawn. Late evening journeys from Huddersfield to Marsden Dirker after 2000 will be withdrawn, however late evening journeys to Marsden Hard End will be retained on service 184, operating until 2300 Mon-Sat / 2230 Sun. Sunday journeys from Oldham to Huddersfield will be retimed by approximately one hour.

Additional journeys will operate on service 184 at 0530 (Mon-Fri), 0545 (Sat) and 0630 (Sat) Huddersfield to Oldham and 1821 (Sat), 1921 (Mon-Sat) and 2003 (Sun) Oldham to Huddersfield. Service 181 will start one hour earlier and finish one hour later on Saturdays.

There is also zero metion of the Nexus Move journeys either so I'm guessing they're withdrawn.

Meanwhile the 508 between Halifax and Leeds sees drastic cuts take place from the 2nd April...

The frequency will be reduced from half-hourly to hourly. Between Halifax and Leeds, early morning journeys before 0600 (Mon-Fri) / 0830 (Sat) / 1000 (Sun) and late evening journeys after 2030 (Mon-Sat) / 2000 (Sun) will be withdrawn.

Between Leeds and Halifax, early morning journeys before 0645 (Mon-Fri) / 0800 (Sat) / 0930 (Sun) and late evening journeys after 2130 (Mon-Sat) / 2100 (Sun) will be withdrawn. The route in Leeds will be revised to operate via Stanningley Bypass with reduced journey times.

I cannot see why an "X8" simply couldn't be added into a handful of peak hour journeys and wrapped around the remaining 508 journeys, faster journeys should mean attractive journey times.

Even the Leeds Park and Ride services are being pruned from Sunday 2nd April...

PR1 (Elland Road Park & Ride to Leeds)
Journeys before 0700 and after 1830 will be withdrawn. Off-peak frequency will be reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes. Saturday and Sunday services will be withdrawn.

PR2 (Temple Green Park & Ride to Leeds)
This service will stop additionally at stops along Pontefract Lane to serve Logic Business Park. Journeys before 0700 and after 1830 will be withdrawn. Frequency will be reduced from every 12 minutes to every 15 minutes (peak) / 20 minutes (off-peak). The Saturday service will be withdrawn.

PR3 (Stourton Park & Ride to Leeds)
Journeys after 1930 will be withdrawn. Off-peak and Saturday frequency will be reduced from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes, and early morning / evening frequency will also be reduced. The Sunday service will be withdrawn.

Tracy Brabins legacy slowly going in the bin? Maybe, maybe not; but wasting cash on vanity schemes such as rebuilding bus stations and building cycle lanes would have helped (OK, Halifax did need rebuilding although I personally would have prefered everything being routed along Market Street, Commercial Street and George Street where possible) - as the overall costs could instead have been used to subsidies what remains of First West Yorkshire's (and other operators) services. My worry now is could we see practically all evening buses after 7pm cut completely including Friday and Saturday evenings when some people will want to go to the pub, club, theatre or cinema but is unable to because of the lack of evening buses.

 

[mic]

Metro / West Yorkshire Combined Authority now has the service changes listed for April on their website and as linked here: https://www.wymetro.com/media/9431/public-transport-changes-apr-2023-13801.pdf

Focusing on the changes for the services operated by First. The changes for the Colne Valley services 181/183/184/185/186 comes into action from Sunday 16th April 2023...

There is also zero metion of the Nexus Move journeys either so I'm guessing they're withdrawn.

Meanwhile the 508 between Halifax and Leeds sees drastic cuts take place from the 2nd April...

I cannot see why an "X8" simply couldn't be added into a handful of peak hour journeys and wrapped around the remaining 508 journeys, faster journeys should mean attractive journey times.

Even the Leeds Park and Ride services are being pruned from Sunday 2nd April...




Tracy Brabins legacy slowly going in the bin? Maybe, maybe not; but wasting cash on vanity schemes such as rebuilding bus stations and building cycle lanes would have helped (OK, Halifax did need rebuilding although I personally would have prefered everything being routed along Market Street, Commercial Street and George Street where possible) - as the overall costs could instead have been used to subsidies what remains of First West Yorkshire's (and other operators) services. My worry now is could we see practically all evening buses after 7pm cut completely including Friday and Saturday evenings when some people will want to go to the pub, club, theatre or cinema but is unable to because of the lack of evening buses.

The Nexus Move trips to Marsden will run as normal. I've just seen from 16th April that they will have 9 routes, one of which is the 184.

 

[dodecahedron67]

69416 is in James St at York from Leeds

To add, 49902 and 49904 are currently away being re-batteried by equipmake. Unsure when expected back

 

[noddingdonkey]

Understand from a local Facebook group that a First Huddersfield double decker caught fire on Hoyle Ing in Linthwaite this evening, looks too be 37258 from bustimes.org an 07 plate B9TL.

Everyone reported to be safe.

Edit: Facebook post from the local fire station with little extra information but containing a photo

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0z8tsSjT89xSgC2TF5mXkHk6iygsbwiampX4AL8oXVzj3zkx4McfR15L4SzsMttK8l&id=100080479270999

 

[mic]

Understand from a local Facebook group that a First Huddersfield double decker caught fire on Hoyle Ing in Linthwaite this evening, looks too be 37258 from bustimes.org an 07 plate B9TL.

Everyone reported to be safe.

Edit: Facebook post from the local fire station with little extra information but containing a photo

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0z8tsSjT89xSgC2TF5mXkHk6iygsbwiampX4AL8oXVzj3zkx4McfR15L4SzsMttK8l&id=100080479270999

i had been on that earlier in the day and it was hoovering very loud

 

[noddingdonkey]

Interestingly Bus Times has tracked it eventually being recovered and taken back to the garage

37258 - YN07 MKZ

Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini

bustimes.org

 

[JD2168]

Ex First Halifax MV06 DYU (69206) is now with PRS Driver Training seen in Handsworth, Sheffield this morning around 10am.

 

[Bayum]

Been on the First Leeds website recently and there’s a couple of questions I have.

One of the pages boasts about buses between Middleton, Roundhay and White Rose introduced - but these already existed?

Routes 2-3-3A-12-13-13A

www.firstbus.co.uk

First Leeds has listened to customer feedback and has introduced a new LeedsCity bus service between Middleton, Leeds City Centre and Roundhay that promises to go further for you.

What’s the situation here?

Second question - when I drive down Pontefract Lane to Headingley between 18:30 and 19:00, there’s usually a couple of buses with their route numbers as ABZ or something similar but I can’t find any information on these. Any ideas?

 

[bluenoxid]

ABZ buses are probably the Amazon contract. There are the units on that road. I assume buses for other places like the hub off J30 of the M62 would stick to the motorway unless Amazon and First have decided to serve both with the same buses

 

[Bayum]

ABZ buses are probably the Amazon contract. There are the units on that road. I assume buses for other places like the hub off J30 of the M62 would stick to the motorway unless Amazon and First have decided to serve both with the same buses

I had assumed that it would be one of the big units along there but I just couldn’t find any details of the services anywhere. Does it run from city centre to the distribution depot?

 

[leedslad82]

I had assumed that it would be one of the big units along there but I just couldn’t find any details of the services anywhere. Does it run from city centre to the distribution depot?

It runs from Sovereign Street, where the Leeds Fest shuttles normally run from.

 

[jonesy3001]

Which Streetdeck was involved in the arson attack last weekend in Middleton?
Will it be repaired or scrapped?

 

[Andyh82]

Been on the First Leeds website recently and there’s a couple of questions I have.

One of the pages boasts about buses between Middleton, Roundhay and White Rose introduced - but these already existed?

Routes 2-3-3A-12-13-13A

www.firstbus.co.uk

What’s the situation here?

Second question - when I drive down Pontefract Lane to Headingley between 18:30 and 19:00, there’s usually a couple of buses with their route numbers as ABZ or something similar but I can’t find any information on these. Any ideas?

That page is a very old page for when ‘Leeds City’ was a new brand with new buses replacing the standard ‘First Leeds’ brand and older buses

The 2, 3 etc was the second corridor to receive ‘Leeds City’ after the Headingley corridor

Now of course it’s practically as standard


The Amazon routes are shown here, listed as A1 and A2

First Leeds

 

[JD2168]

Which Streetdeck was involved in the arson attack last weekend in Middleton?
Will it be repaired or scrapped?

It was 35523 that suffered the fire.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

That page is a very old page for when ‘Leeds City’ was a new brand with new buses replacing the standard ‘First Leeds’ brand and older buses

The 2, 3 etc was the second corridor to receive ‘Leeds City’ after the Headingley corridor

Now of course it’s practically as standard

The Headingley services were the pioneer routes for the LeedsCity brand, any of the older buses mostly the single decks in the fleet were repainted into the generic LeedsCity two tone green. The only oddity was when First ran the X98/X99 to Wetherby. Sometimes you'd get either a LeedsCity branded Streetdeck or a First Leeds Gemini and yet the stop flags had LeedsCity plastered on them as far as Bardsey in fact I think they still do.

 

[dodecahedron67]

49902 has returned to York, becoming the second re-powered Versa EV. Hopefully this one doesn’t randomly lose power steering like 49912…

 

[Hullian111]

Work starts on First York's all-electric depot conversion

First Bus has begun work to convert its James Street site in York into what would be one of the first fully electric depots in the UK outside London.

www.route-one.net

First Bus has begun work to convert its James Street site in York into what would be one of the first fully electric depots in the UK outside London.

Groundwork is being laid by Stonewood Electrical in preparation for power charging and infrastructure being installed by September and the removal of the diesel fuel tanks.

Funding for the project has come via a Zero Emission Bus Regional Areas (ZEBRA) grant of £10.2 million and an investment of £13 million from First Bus.

The depot will have 28 Heliox Rapid 150 kW (kilowatt) chargers, which are capable of fully charging a bus in two and a half hours. This is in addition to the depot’s existing units installed over recent years for buses on York’s park-and-ride network.

Does that mean York's Kite Electroliners are finally imminent? Been agonising watching buslistsontheweb (BloTW) slowly update the GB Kite BEV section with only results for First Leicester and Ulsterbus.

 

[Volvodart]

The double deckers for York are due fairly soon, but the single deckers are at the back of the First order due March 2024.

 

[dodecahedron67]

Nope. Current planning is “we’d be lucky to have [the first few] before the end of the year”

Internal source.

These works were supposed to start in March if everything was on track, so the fact they’re nearly 4mo late should say something…

[EDIT]
Major changes coming July 2nd. 2A cancelled, 10 no longer runs morning/night/sundays, 11 reverts to only Bishopthorpe - York Centre on a night, and 66/67 no longer start so early (7.30/8.30 rather than 5)

 

[Whisky Papa]

Planning permission has apparently been granted to install charging facilities at Todmorden's Millwood garage:
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/ne...harge-a-whole-fleet-of-electric-buses-4192232

Calderdale Council planning officers have approved plans submitted by First Bus including chargers for its garage at Halifax Road, Millwood, Todmorden.

In all, the company says 16 buses will be able to be charged up at the site as part of company proposals to switch to climate-friendly vehicles.

There will also be space to charge up electric cars.

 

[mlambeuk]

First York seem to be cutting The evening weekday services and all Sunday service on the number 10 (Poppleton to Stamford Bridge).
https://www.firstbus.co.uk/york/plan-journey/timetables?date=2023-07-02
Even though their upcoming service changes page only imply that the University services are changing on this dae

 

[dodecahedron67]

First York seem to be cutting The evening weekday services and all Sunday service on the number 10 (Poppleton to Stamford Bridge).
https://www.firstbus.co.uk/york/plan-journey/timetables?date=2023-07-02
Even though their upcoming service changes page only imply that the University services are changing on this dae

Much more than just 10 changes.

2A Cancelled, last 2 becomes 1953 off Museum St Mon-Sat
11 reverts to Bishopthorpe - Stonebow only on a night
1/4/6 early morning, night and weekend service cuts - other operators may take up slack (uncertain for now, believe council subsidy isn't good enough for these journeys)
66/67 becomes 0630 start Mon-Fri, 0730 start and every 40 mins (combined every 20) Saturdays and 0830 starts and every hour (combined 30 mins) every Sunday.
(Parsed from first website, bustimes.org and VOSA)

Major fare changes coming as well -
3rd July
A single becomes a flat £2 fare, but with a "short distance" Tap On/Tap Off £1.40 fare introduced (eqv. to current £1.20 fare)

24 July (I believe this is the new unibus contract start date, presumably first have retained it as a result)
Every student fare rises by roughly 20-25%. Student day goes from £3.20 to £4, the "10 ticket" unibus carnet goes from £10 to £13 (a 20 carnet goes from £20 to £26), a term ticket goes from £94 to £115, and a year from £275 to £345
UoY staff tickets see similar rises