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Fixed fee upgrades on Virgin Trains during the week?

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gazthomas

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Interesting one, I am sitting in first class on the 16.55 Manchester Piccadilly to London Euston. Pretty quiet as usual. Another passenger just walked through and asked the guard/host "how much for a first class upgrade?". Without checking tickets the guard/host replied "£50".

I know there is "Weekend First" but is this normal policy during the week? If so I might stop buying first class tickets for work and just upgrade.
 
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Llanigraham

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I asked last week at Shrewsbury on my way to London, and that journey the upgrade is £40. The Train Manager looked it up on a sheet at their "desk".
I didn't bother!
 

Mathew S

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That's a good spot, I definitely think I'll do that in future.
I'd check with someone in the know at Virgin before you do. Just because it's on brfares.com doesn't mean you can actually buy it.
 

sprunt

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Mathew S

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On further inspection, there's also a similar fare (@ £40) available from Crewe, Stafford, and elsewhere to Euston. Appears to be priced at twice the weekend upgrade.
I can't find it anywhere north of Crewe/Manchester though.
 

Bletchleyite

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Bletchleyite

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I can see why, if the upgrade must be purchased in advance of joining the train, but I can't see how that would work

How it would work as fraud, or how it would be purchased in advance?

It's purchased in advance at a ticket office at the difference between a Standard Anytime (Day) Single for the journey on the season ticket[1] and the applicable First Class walk-up single fare (so off-peak or anytime).

It's on here, so it's clearly standardised:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46557.aspx

This £50 thing, though, seems intended to be purchased on board subject to space. I don't understand why it is not publicised and is patchy in availability - Union issues re commission?

[1] Doing a partial upgrade is probably one of those things that isn't legislated for and so depends on the ticket office.
 

142blue

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This upgrade can only be done onboard, not to be sold at a ticket office.
 

Clip

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Does anyone know the actual reason why (a) it's not publicised, and (b) not all staff do it?

I suppose its not publicised because Virgin would lose out on those who pay full fare First tickets and why not all staff do things is just one of those things of human nature
 

142blue

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It's down to space, food, staffing, how busy the train is etc hence why it's down to the onboard team to manage its availability to you as a customer

If I sell it you but that next train is short staffed or doesn't have loads of food onboard then the impression it leaves with you who buys the upgrade isn't great

I'd love to sell it in advance of travel but the decision is it's managed on a train by train basis
 

142blue

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I believe so. If you came to me and wanted to excess from std to first I'd advise speak to TM first to check availability of upgrade rather than charge you the excess as that's cheaper.
 

boxy321

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People in the evening often ask on leaving Birmingham how much an upgrade to Euston is when the train is packed. When told it's around £90 or so most quickly head back to standard. Those who want to do so usually ask the on-board staff who then tell the passenger to take a seat and wait for the TM.
 

dave87016

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Yesterday I PM virgin trains on messenger and asked if this weekday upgrade existed

he said he would look into it and today got back to me , and he also said yes it does exist and it is also valid peak hours and to/from Preston and Euston so make of it what you will obviously it would be subjects to seats being available
 
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Does anyone know the actual reason why (a) it's not publicised, and (b) not all staff do it?

A- it’s to be sold on train to train basis after talking to the service manager to confirm enough resources. Ie - enough food, staff and space, then sell cheaper upgrade.

B- No agreement over commission payment. So some will some won’t as it a internal politics issue.
 

Starmill

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How do people know about it on a given train, then? If it's available, is it announced over the PA?
It's occasionally announced, but far more often it's not. I've heard one announcement about it ever, and I always do listen to the announcements if I am on VT. It is clear, however, that for a long time it has been the modus operandi of some train managers to tell everyone who asks to upgrade that it is £50 (or £40 from Liverpool) and to just make themselves comfortable in First and it will be collected later. I have never heard anybody who asked politely be told no or quoted the excess to 1st off peak single though, including a few people I know. Some of their train managers understand that the business is not infallible and faces many threats, as well as stalling growth, and try to increase revenue as much as practical as part of their normal duties and high level of customer service. This attitude is not always well promoted in the railway industry though so there seems to be a measure of success here.

I recall once asking for an upgrade to First Class on GWR from Worcester to Oxford, as there were 0 passengers in First Class leaving Worcester around midday! The guard quoted £30 or so which was the FDS rate, which I obviously did not take (I even already had a valid standard ticket...). CrossCountry have a policy of refusing to accept cash from Standard Advance ticket holders who change their mind on the train and want to upgrade to weekend first. Fortunately for them, the majority of their staff seem to ignore this policy!
 
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_toommm_

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It's occasionally announced, but far more often it's not. I've heard one announcement about it ever, and I always do listen to the announcements if I am on VT. It is clear, however, that for a long time it has been the modus operandi of some train managers to tell everyone who asks to upgrade that it is £50 (or £40 from Liverpool) and to just make themselves comfortable in First and it will be collected later. I have never heard anybody who asked politely be told no or quoted the excess to 1st off peak single though, including a few people I know. Some of their train managers understand that the business is not infallible and faces many threats, as well as stalling growth, and try to increase revenue as much as practical as part of their normal duties and high level of customer service. This attitude is not always well promoted in the railway industry though so there seems to be a measure of success here.

I recall once asking for an upgrade to First Class on GWR from Worcester to Oxford, as there were 0 passengers in First Class leaving Worcester around midday! The guard quoted £30 or so which was the FDS rate, which I obviously did not take (I even already had a valid standard ticket...). CrossCountry have a policy of refusing to accept cash from Standard Advance ticket holders who change their mind on the train and want to upgrade to weekend first. Fortunately for them, the majority of their staff seem to ignore this policy!

I was surprised myself at CrossCountry when I offered to pay the generous fee on a Wednesday night at 8pm from Edinburgh. I could hear the air whistling through the coach but was still refused...
 

142blue

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Update on this as this upgrade will not be available on any peak time service and only on designated off peak trains at the TM discretion with immediate effect
 

ForTheLoveOf

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Update on this as this upgrade will not be available on any peak time service and only on designated off peak trains at the TM discretion with immediate effect
Haha, well there's a quick change in position!

Is that the company policy, in response to significantly reduced sales of FORs? :lol:
 
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