Fleetwood, Preston and West Riding Junction Railway.

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have come across an article in some very old literature that came as part of a package in a rail lot that I bid for and won about fifty years ago. The aspiration seemed to be connecting the Fleetwood area to West Yorkshire to serve both Bradford and Leeds and the Preston and Longridge Railway served as what was actually built. I wonder if an onward connection from Longridge to the Clitheroe area to connect to lines built in those areas would have been a success.

In 1852, the company built the 862 yard long Miley Tunnel in the Maudland area of Preston that connected the Preston and Wyre Joint Railway to the Preston and Longridge railway and in 1856, the Preston and Longridge Railway built a railway station at Maudland Bridge.

 

[randyrippley]

I would have thought the cost of the viaducts needed to follow the River Ribble would have been prohibitive.
Look at the viaducts on the line through Whalley, and on the Padiham/Simonstone route - you would have needed similar, but much longer.
And what would it have served? Longridge would have been pretty small, little business there. All you would get would be a few miles off the through route over expensive masonry. Building on an embankment along the river valley would have caused drainage issues

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would have thought the cost of the viaducts needed to follow the River Ribble would have been prohibitive.
Look at the viaducts on the line through Whalley, and on the Padiham/Simonstone route - you would have needed similar, but much longer.
And what would it have served? Longridge would have been pretty small, little business there. All you would get would be a few miles off the through route over expensive masonry. Building on an embankment along the river valley would have caused drainage issues

I had in mind the aspirational cross-Pennine route that the company had in mind to serve. You make mention of the viaduct at Whalley on the line from Blackburn to Clitheroe, but the company that constructed that particular route did not allow that requirement to deter them.

 

[randyrippley]

I had in mind the aspirational cross-Pennine route that the company had in mind to serve. You make mention of the viaduct at Whalley on the line from Blackburn to Clitheroe, but the company that constructed that particular route did not allow that requirement to deter them.

problem is the prospective route would have needed a similar height viaduct but about ten times the length, if not more (possibly 20x). Would have knocked the price sky high. Also don't forget the problems experienced on the Padiham route over similar ground with the viaduct and embankment, though coal mines were an extra complication there.
Would have been along the route of the Ribble, a much bigger river than the Calder at Whalley, much more liable to flood

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I suppose the cross-Pennine route section from Preston to Hellifield was eventually made possible by the Blackburn and Preston Railway and the Blackburn, Clitheroe and North Western Railway.

Incidentally, was there ever another proposed but never built railway route that would have connected that line above from somewhere near Clitheroe to the line that ran to Colne and Skipton.

 

[Andy873]

Look at the viaducts on the line through Whalley, and on the Padiham/Simonstone route - you would have needed similar, but much longer.
And what would it have served? Longridge would have been pretty small, little business there. All you would get would be a few miles off the through route over expensive masonry. Building on an embankment along the river valley would have caused drainage issues

It would have (although a nice idea) been very difficult and expensive to build such a line. I can only quote the difficulties on the Padiham line. Two miles of embankments (one of which kept subsiding) and three large cuttings, the walls of which kept caving in due to the quick sand, and the clay which was hard as rock when dry but like an ice rink when wet. The 10 arch Martholme viaduct in the scheme of things the easy part - but still expensive.

Incidentally, was there ever another proposed but never built railway route that would have connected that line above from somewhere near Clitheroe to the line that ran to Colne and Skipton.

There was, as I've mentioned before the proposed route from the Padiham line just North of Martholme viaduct to Whalley which would have connected with the Blackburn - Hellifield line but it never happened. Perhaps the lessons learnt from building the Padiham line had been learnt.

To give you an idea, the viaduct cost 18,000 (and that's back in 1874 when it was completed). For the cuttings, 680,000 cubic yards were removed and used for the embankments two miles away - so a lot of earth to move.

Building embankments close to a river invites the possibility of them being washed away. The embankments from Simonstone to the viaduct were built higher up the valley floor as the river there was (and still is) prone to flooding.

 

[weepingwillowb]

Another proposal was a line east from Blackpool.

"There are rumours in the air of the promotion of a light railway from Blackpool to the great centres of population in Yorkshire. The scheme—a very ambitious one—has really been in hand some time. The proposal is to build a light railway to Keighley, leaving Blackpool, in the neighbourhood of Raikes Hall, and passing in a bee line past the highway between Four Lane Ends, Barton and Broughton, and in an easterly direction, taking in Clitheroe and Chatburn, and joining the Midland Railway Co. in the Burnley district. By this route the railway would cover a distance of 44 miles. It is not surprising to learn that the undertaking would entail the expenditure of £500,000, and that to get the Parliamentary sanction would cost quite £20,000."
(The Clitheroe Times, Friday 3rd January 1902)

 

[Andy873]

@weepingwillowb That's a great find!

I would have thought that a predicted cost of 500,000 was on the optimistic side given the Padiham branch cost 300,000 for just nine miles.

It begs the question, if that line and the one from Whalley to the Padiham branch had been built, which route would the trains have taken?

The more direct route would have been to head south from Clitheroe for Whalley, then to Rose Grove via the Padiham branch. From Rose Grove you could either go via the copy pit route towards Hebden Bridge, or carry on to Colne and Skipton.

 

[30907]

Interesting, if somewhat confusing, proposals.
There are only two remotely sensible routes (other than those that were eventually built) between Ribblesdale and Airedale:
1. from Whalley to Padiham (as Andy 873 says, actually proposed) then up to Colne and a long tunnel through towards Crosshills (the present A6068 but underground!); from Padiham the more obvious route would be over Copy Pit, so the only reason for not doing that would be to compete with the LYR!
2. from Chatburn/Rimington towards Barnoldswick and then (joining the MR) to Skipton.
The scheme quoted by weepingwillowb refers to joining the MR in the Burnley district which might mean Colne, so would be a combination of the two more obvious routes.

 

[weepingwillowb]

I don't really understand how Chatburn fits in with "the Burnley district." I suppose it depends what was meant by "the Burnley district." Maybe Padiham, or Colne, as suggested above by 30907?

 

[Andy873]

I don't really understand how Chatburn fits in with "the Burnley district."

Nor me. Perhaps the line was to connect somewhere between Clitheroe and Chatburn. As for Chatburn being part of the Burnley district? it was part of the Clitheroe district until 1974.

 

[30907]

Nor me. Perhaps the line was to connect somewhere between Clitheroe and Chatburn. As for Chatburn being part of the Burnley district? it was part of the Clitheroe district until 1974.

Still is (Ribble Valley BC these days)!

I know Burnley was very significant back then (it had a Bishop before Blackburn!) but having Chatburn and Burnley on the same route from Blackpool to Yorkshire wouldn't make sense.
Even Chatburn and Colne would be a bit roundabout (though there is a bus connecting Chatburn and Barrowford/Nelson round the N side of Pendle) - and if you wanted to compete with the L&Y and join up with the Midland that might be the least worst option.

 

[stuving]

I've been trying to work out roughly what happened - or mostly didn't - to this railway.

The Preston and Longridge line was opened in 1840, as a single line worked by horses uphill and carrying stone from the quarry down Preston by gravity. That quarry traffic was attractive, more so if it could be expanded by steam operation and better linked to railways and docks.

The original Fleetwood, Preston and West Riding Junction Railway proposal was to go from Preston to Elslack, joining the Leeds and Bradford extension Railway for the onward route via Skipton. That started from the Preston & Wyre line, and included taking over the P&L in its first stage. There was to be a branch from Mitton to Burnley, via Whalley and Padiham.

At least seven companies were vying for the right to build railways through Clitheroe, of which the Blackburn, Clitheroe, and North Western Junction Railway proposed an almost identical route for Clitheroe-Skipton and a branch to Burnley. The result of the horse-trading was that the FPWRJR was only to "build" the 16 miles Preston-Clitheroe, and gave up the Burnley branch which was then not pursued by the BCNWJR either. This act was passed in 1846.

The link line through Preston (including the tunnel) was built, about a mile in all, by 1849/50. While the FPWRJR was granted the right to buy the Preston and Langridge, the agreement they reached was to pay £3000 pa for 24 years. But in 1856 they fell out about the terms, and ended up completing the purchase outright. There was a financial regulation act for the FPWRJR that year.

I am not sure why the next part of the line to Clitheroe was not built. It just isn't mentioned in reports of company meetings. At the same time they were still trying to get a further bill through Parliament, for the "Burnley and Colliery Branch" (from Mitton).

A new bill was promoted in 1865/6, with short numbered railways running:
1. Fulwood (on the Preston-Longridge) to Standen via Grimsargh, Ribchester, Mitton, Pendelton
2. Standen to Chatburn
3. Chatburn to Elslack
6. Little Mitton (on no. 1) to Whalley

That bill was debated in March 1866, and then in August the LNWR and the L&Y bought the whole railway.

 

[Andy873]

The only thing I can add is that the proposed line from Whalley to Padiham was poorly subscribed. Previously the L&Y were approached but turned down the opportunity to build it.

 

[Rescars]

That bill was debated in March 1866, and then in August the LNWR and the L&Y bought the whole railway.

Overend and Gurney collapsed in May 1866 triggering a banking crisis. Perhaps the LNWR and the L&Y spotted an opportunity not to be missed.