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Flibco

greataj

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https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/flibco-partners-with-tctg-for-stansted-service/

Flibco now have a timetable for their Stansted Airport-Stratford-Liverpool St service starting 1 April. It appears they will replace Airport Bus Express.

It will run half-hourly, 24/7, so little overall change for daytime operations but better night service than currently. They also state that AI scheduling will allow capacity to be ramped up at peak times, aligned with flight operations. I'm interested in the logistics of that... Does that mean they'll have a surplus of bus capacity they can throw in last minute with flexible ticketing, or a planned timetable uplift which may come in future?

They seem quite a reputable provider in various European airports/cities. Will be interesting to see how this compares to NatEx.
 
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RS465

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Disappointing Airport Bus Express is coming to an end. They provide a great reliable service and it’s hard to say if Flibco will replicate that. The new timetable appears to be a lot more inconvenient aswell.

I think the National Express buses to Stansted are changing as of the 1st April aswell. No timetables have been uploaded but, according to bus times.org, the A9 service to Stratford is getting extended with branches to Canary Wharf and Liverpool Street, the A8 will be rerouted to Waterloo and London Victoria and the A6 will receive a stop at Tottenham Hale.
 

Smethwickian

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I think the National Express buses to Stansted are changing as of the 1st April aswell. No timetables have been uploaded but, according to bus times.org, the A9 service to Stratford is getting extended with branches to Canary Wharf and Liverpool Street, the A8 will be rerouted to Waterloo and London Victoria and the A6 will receive a stop at Tottenham Hale.
As far as I know the National Express A7 is dropped from May 19. A8 will no longer serve Kings Cross but will serve Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street as at present, then serve Southwark, Waterloo and Victoria Coach Station, and still to the same frequency. That will likely mean instead of A7 being full out of VCS and leaving behind passengers at other stops on its present route, it will instead leave behind many intending passengers (large numbers of which travel on unreserved standby tickets or Ryanair coupons or pay on the coach) at Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. So any alternatives will probably do well.
 

Teds

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It will be interesting to see where the coaches come from. The tie-up is with the Coach Travel Group but they don't seem to have any operators in the area of Stansted. The nearest seem to be south/south west London (the Ready Group).
There is an application from a company called Flibtravel International UK Ltd for an operating centre for 5 vehciles at the long stay car park on the airport. Tobias Stuber is one of the directors of Flibtravel and CEO of Flibco (N&P dated 12 March 2025)
 
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stadler

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What is happening to the Arriva Greenline route 720 service? I remember back in February 2020 they announced a new London to Stansted Airport express coach would start in April 2020 to compete with the Airport Bus Express and National Express services. Then suddenly covid and lockdown happened and they said it was temporarily suspended until further notice so it never ended up starting. But i have heard nothing since. They never mentioned it again and removed the page from their website. Is this idea completely scrapped now?
 

route101

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As far as I know the National Express A7 is dropped from May 19. A8 will no longer serve Kings Cross but will serve Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street as at present, then serve Southwark, Waterloo and Victoria Coach Station, and still to the same frequency. That will likely mean instead of A7 being full out of VCS and leaving behind passengers at other stops on its present route, it will instead leave behind many intending passengers (large numbers of which travel on unreserved standby tickets or Ryanair coupons or pay on the coach) at Liverpool Street and Tottenham Hale. So any alternatives will probably do well.
Always thought the Stansted routes apart from the A9 are a bit long winded.
 

stadler

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Has anyone seen this new Flibco operation yet? There are no timetables on the Bus Times website or the Traveline website or any other website that i can find. There is almost no evidence of it existing online other than their own website which does not even have a timetable. Have they actually failed to properly register the route?

What route number are they using? Oddly their website gives very little information. It seems like the setup was all rushed with no proper publicity. Also do they have new vehicles or are they using old Airport Bus Express vehicles?

Also i notice that Airport Bus Express has now changed from a bus operator to a ticket seller. They now sell tickets for National Express coach routes from Gatwick / Heathrow / Luton / Stansted airports to London and vice versa. I am surprised they are now selling tickets for their former competitor. I would have expected them to sell Flibco tickets at least for the Stansted route.
 

duncombec

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Has anyone seen this new Flibco operation yet? There are no timetables on the Bus Times website or the Traveline website or any other website that i can find. There is almost no evidence of it existing online other than their own website which does not even have a timetable.
Their website does have a timetable. https://www.flibco.com/en/timetable, scroll down to Stanstead Airport <> Stratford Westfield <> Liverpool Street Station, and select the day. Suggests half-hourly 24/7 on the xx00 and xx30 from both ends. Also available from https://www.flibco.com/en/london-stansted-airport via the "Shuttle Bus Connections" section. The website has all the signs of having been translated by a native French/Luxembourg speaker and not localised.

It's listed on the Stansted Airport website, too: https://www.stanstedairport.com/getting-to-and-from/by-bus-and-coach/.

Have they actually failed to properly register the route?
That's quite a suggestion - does it need to be registered? (e.g. Flixbus/Nat Ex style). Worth noting that N&P continues to be quite substantially behind in listing paper registrations.

What route number are they using?
I assume you mean to satisfy TfL (although they don't actually seem to require a route number in all cases). Whilst there is no LSP showing under an easily spottable name, if the service has started, it would seem unlikely that TfL have allowed it to without the rules being followed. I notice there is no LSP for Flixbus, for example.

Oddly their website gives very little information. It seems like the setup was all rushed with no proper publicity. Also do they have new vehicles or are they using old Airport Bus Express vehicles?
Not sure this is quite true.

One example in livery, albeit on rail replacement, is this from JH Coaches: https://www.flickr.com/photos/189859696@N04/54391135878/, and in the Bus & Coach Buyer press release: https://www.busandcoachbuyer.com/first-glimpse-flibco-launches-in-the-uk/.

Reports also this week that they are partnering with Flixbus to sell tickets.
 

RT4038

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Has anyone seen this new Flibco operation yet? There are no timetables on the Bus Times website or the Traveline website or any other website that i can find. There is almost no evidence of it existing online other than their own website which does not even have a timetable. Have they actually failed to properly register the route?
Would it need to be registered? Presumably it could be an unregistered long distance service not conveying locally? Don't need a LSP (London Service Permit) if not carrying locally within London

That's quite a suggestion - does it need to be registered? (e.g. Flixbus/Nat Ex style). Worth noting that N&P continues to be quite substantially behind in listing paper registrations.


I assume you mean to satisfy TfL (although they don't actually seem to require a route number in all cases). Whilst there is no LSP showing under an easily spottable name, if the service has started, it would seem unlikely that TfL have allowed it to without the rules being followed. I notice there is no LSP for Flixbus, for example.
 

RS465

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The route number Flibco are using is FL1. The timetable remains unchanged from Airport Bus Express.
 

broadwater

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On the day before they started, a Scania Touring of Readybus in Flibco livery was at Stansted, together with a group of Flibco hi-viz-clad drivers from Johnsons of Henley-in-Arden. Both Readybus and Johnsons are member sof Coach Travel Group.
 

Teds

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I saw a couple of Fibco vehicles in Bishopsgate yesterday. Both were Scania/Higer vehicles. The picture shows ND23 APU which is (was?) operated by JH Coaches of Birtley County Durham although I could not see the legals. Are JH part of the Coach Travel Group? The other coach, heading south was operated by Readybus, Slough a 25 plate vehicle in Fibco livery.20250409_102132.jpg
 

GusB

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I saw a couple of Fibco vehicles in Bishopsgate yesterday. Both were Scania/Higer vehicles. The picture shows ND23 APU which is (was?) operated by JH Coaches of Birtley County Durham although I could not see the legals. Are JH part of the Coach Travel Group? The other coach, heading south was operated by Readybus, Slough a 25 plate vehicle in Fibco livery.View attachment 178162
JH Coaches is part of The Coach Travel Group, as is readygroup. There is a page on TCTG's website that shows the constituent companies (and links to their individual websites:

I was slightly amused by your minor typo of Flibco, by the way. It is a somewhat unfortunate name! :D
 

markymark2000

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Has anyone seen this new Flibco operation yet? There are no timetables on the Bus Times website or the Traveline website or any other website that i can find. There is almost no evidence of it existing online other than their own website which does not even have a timetable.
Bustimes and Traveline both get their coach data from what is called NCSD (National Coach Services Database). This is now in the hands of KPMG as part of the Bus Open Data contract, and sadly KPMG are shocking at maintaining the database. I have been reporting issues to them since the first day that KPMGs database came out and still issues are going unresolved. It's too much manual data entry for them and if they don't know something, they just guess (such as Airport bus Express was listed as ABE1 rather than A21 which it actually operated as) rather than getting actual information.

Until Flibco provide their own data to the NCSD, or KPMG scrape the website (which I presume won't be quick), they are unlikely to appear on Traveline or Bustimes.

Have they actually failed to properly register the route?
Doesn't need to be registered.

It seems like the setup was all rushed with no proper publicity.
Because it was. It took Flibco a long time to appoint their operator it seems.

Also i notice that Airport Bus Express has now changed from a bus operator to a ticket seller. They now sell tickets for National Express coach routes from Gatwick / Heathrow / Luton / Stansted airports to London and vice versa. I am surprised they are now selling tickets for their former competitor. I would have expected them to sell Flibco tickets at least for the Stansted route.
Bitter perhaps that they lost the contract to Flibco so now doesn't want to support them?

Would it need to be registered? Presumably it could be an unregistered long distance service not conveying locally? Don't need a LSP (London Service Permit) if not carrying locally within London
No, it doesn't need registering.

The timetable remains unchanged from Airport Bus Express.
Timetable is changed as Airport Bus Express stopped in Bethnal Green and they had some random gaps in service and timetable variations but Flibco is standard every 30 minutes and every journey takes the same time.
 
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I noticed after reading today's diamondgeezer about Flibco's new airport coach to Stansted that Airport Bus Express no longer seem to be operating their own coaches, instead just selling tickets for National Express services. When previously travelling to Stansted by National Express from Stratford, ABE seemed to have a large number of competing services with NE. Anyone know what's changed?

Need to get from London to Stansted Airport? A new player has entered the market and it's very green.

The coach is operated by Flibco, a Luxembourg-based company taking its first steps in the UK. They operate to airports in Italy, Belgium, Hungary, Spain and 15 other European countries, with the long-term aim of becoming the continent's number 1 air transfer service.
 
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Dwarfer1979

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I noticed after reading today's diamondgeezer about Flibco's new airport coach to Stansted that Airport Bus Express no longer seem to be operating their own coaches, instead just selling tickets for National Express services. When previously travelling to Stansted by National Express from Stratford, ABE seemed to have a large number of competing services with NE. Anyone know what's changed?
They lost the rights to operate from Stansted to London to Flibco after a tendering process, as airports are private land they can control who is allowed to serve their sites if they wish though most don't in the UK and even where they do it isn't always obvious. Luton also do this though messed the original process up, Arriva lost rights to National Express which got all legally messy but then Luton allowed another operator to start up running to London which created an inconsistency that Arriva used to get access rights restored. Tend to only do so on likely busy corridors, such as to London, to avoid congestion and overbussing.
 
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Hmm, a peculiar setup. I doubt it'll make much difference to passengers - there'll be a similar range of routes available and they're clearly targeting the bottom end of the market. Thanks for the info.
 

zero

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£13.99! (according to the Diamond Geezer blog)

I have only flown from Stansted once in my life, in 2016 and to get there I paid £1 for the ABE service from Stratford. It was a home-printed ticket without any form of barcode, and the driver just waved me on when I flashed it at him. Clearly if everyone only paid £1 it would be unsustainable, but I recall the walk-up price was £5 (cash into the driver's personal wallet).
 

markymark2000

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They lost the rights to operate from Stansted to London to Flibco after a tendering process, as airports are private land they can control who is allowed to serve their sites if they wish though most don't in the UK and even where they do it isn't always obvious. Luton also do this though messed the original process up, Arriva lost rights to National Express which got all legally messy but then Luton allowed another operator to start up running to London which created an inconsistency that Arriva used to get access rights restored. Tend to only do so on likely busy corridors, such as to London, to avoid congestion and overbussing.
You'd think logically more operators the better. More operators, running more routes means more competition and passengers have more choices in how they get to the airport. More choices for passengers means more people want to travel from said airport enabling the airport to grow without needing more parking or having locals complaining about traffic or sustainable travel. Instead Luton and Stansted airports (as well as Bristol for that matter) seem to be hell bent on limiting competition. I wonder if this is something the Competitions and Markets Authority would investigate.
 

stadler

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£13.99! (according to the Diamond Geezer blog)

I have only flown from Stansted once in my life, in 2016 and to get there I paid £1 for the ABE service from Stratford. It was a home-printed ticket without any form of barcode, and the driver just waved me on when I flashed it at him. Clearly if everyone only paid £1 it would be unsustainable, but I recall the walk-up price was £5 (cash into the driver's personal wallet).
The prices for Flibco of £13.99 Single and £18.98 Return are online only prices. If you buy it from the coach driver (or from one of the airport attendants or coach stop attendants) then it costs £16.00 Single (or £32.00 Return as returns are only available online so you would have to purchase two single tickets) which is more expensive.

If you use National Express then they charge £17.00 Single or £23.00 Return to buy it from the coach driver. So this works out more expensive than Flibco for a Single ticket but cheaper than Flibco for a Return ticket.

I highly doubt many passengers go to the effort of buying online for a simple journey between the airport and the city centre. This is the kind of journey where people will just turn up and not bother planning transport from the airport. Most just arrive at the airport and look for ways in to the city then. So i think the majority will be paying the higher fare.

If using the train the cheapest available walk up fare is £17.80 if you buy an Elsenham to Cheshunt single (£12.90) and then break your journey and use Contactless or Oyster (£4.90) for the Cheshunt to London Liverpool Street journey. Otherwise you have to pay £22.90 for a Single from Elsenham to London Terminals or the option which most tourists will pay which is the standard £25.00 for a Single from Stansted Airport to London Terminals stations. So the coach certainly works out cheaper than the trains. Even doing the Cheshunt split is more expensive than either coach.
 

Dwarfer1979

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You'd think logically more operators the better. More operators, running more routes means more competition and passengers have more choices in how they get to the airport. More choices for passengers means more people want to travel from said airport enabling the airport to grow without needing more parking or having locals complaining about traffic or sustainable travel. Instead Luton and Stansted airports (as well as Bristol for that matter) seem to be hell bent on limiting competition. I wonder if this is something the Competitions and Markets Authority would investigate.
It's private land so they have complete rights to control who has access and they went through a public tendering process so as long as it was a fair process and everyone is treated equally it is no different to TfL or TfGM limiting who can run buses in their areas. These processes around contracting access tend to only be focussed on the core flow to the local major city (London in the case of Luton or Stansted) and there don't tend to be as controlling over links to other parts of the country - I think Luton are a bit but that is just down to their bus station at the airport being smaller so space can be at a premium at busy times, they don't control who can come in from elsewhere but like any bus station they may not be able to accommodate you if you pick the wrong times to call. For an airport they want the process of reaching or leaving them to be simple as most users are not that regular so having dozens of options with dozens of prices on a similar route but focussed on the busiest times all running almost empty doesn't help with green credentials or simplify explaining how to get to them. One or two approved suppliers running to agreed and comprehensive timetables optimised to the needs of the airport that customers can be directed to without complaints of unfair favouritism (which would happen if the airport allowed a free for all but didn't link to all equally) maximises the load factors and is a better solution for the aims of the airport management.
 

RT4038

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You'd think logically more operators the better. More operators, running more routes means more competition and passengers have more choices in how they get to the airport. More choices for passengers means more people want to travel from said airport enabling the airport to grow without needing more parking or having locals complaining about traffic or sustainable travel. Instead Luton and Stansted airports (as well as Bristol for that matter) seem to be hell bent on limiting competition. I wonder if this is something the Competitions and Markets Authority would investigate.
It's private land so they have complete rights to control who has access and they went through a public tendering process so as long as it was a fair process and everyone is treated equally it is no different to TfL or TfGM limiting who can run buses in their areas. These processes around contracting access tend to only be focussed on the core flow to the local major city (London in the case of Luton or Stansted) and there don't tend to be as controlling over links to other parts of the country - I think Luton are a bit but that is just down to their bus station at the airport being smaller so space can be at a premium at busy times, they don't control who can come in from elsewhere but like any bus station they may not be able to accommodate you if you pick the wrong times to call. For an airport they want the process of reaching or leaving them to be simple as most users are not that regular so having dozens of options with dozens of prices on a similar route but focussed on the busiest times all running almost empty doesn't help with green credentials or simplify explaining how to get to them. One or two approved suppliers running to agreed and comprehensive timetables optimised to the needs of the airport that customers can be directed to without complaints of unfair favouritism (which would happen if the airport allowed a free for all but didn't link to all equally) maximises the load factors and is a better solution for the aims of the airport management.
These airports do it to maximise their revenue from coach services (increasing the coach fares to the maximum and getting the best 'cut' they can from this revenue by competitive tendering and reducing on road competition). This revenue is then used to reduce the aircraft departure charges, which in turn reduces the headline airfares charged by the low-cost carriers, which in turn attracts lots of passengers to book those flights. Same with Car Park charges, drop off charges, retail outlet rentals etc etc., in fact anyway of raising revenue to reduce departure charges.

You don't really think that the low cost carriers can afford to offer £29 or whatever to Prague, without extra money being extracted from the passengers in some other way ?
 

markymark2000

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These airports do it to maximise their revenue from coach services (increasing the coach fares to the maximum and getting the best 'cut' they can from this revenue by competitive tendering and reducing on road competition). This revenue is then used to reduce the aircraft departure charges, which in turn reduces the headline airfares charged by the low-cost carriers, which in turn attracts lots of passengers to book those flights. Same with Car Park charges, drop off charges, retail outlet rentals etc etc., in fact anyway of raising revenue to reduce departure charges.

You don't really think that the low cost carriers can afford to offer £29 or whatever to Prague, without extra money being extracted from the passengers in some other way ?
Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester, Southampton, Newcastle all cope with normal fares charged for public transport. Manchester, Heathrow and Gatwick both cope too without silly situations with coaches. I'm sure that Luton and Stansted could cope without doing it too.
 

RT4038

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Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester, Southampton, Newcastle all cope with normal fares charged for public transport. Manchester, Heathrow and Gatwick both cope too without silly situations with coaches. I'm sure that Luton and Stansted could cope without doing it too.
They could, air tickets from Luton and Stansted could be a bit higher, as a result of that some passengers may rather go on a flight from another airport, so the air fares would get even higher because load factors would be less etc etc. Why would they want to do that?
 

Dwarfer1979

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Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester, Southampton, Newcastle all cope with normal fares charged for public transport. Manchester, Heathrow and Gatwick both cope too without silly situations with coaches. I'm sure that Luton and Stansted could cope without doing it too.
Gatwick, Heathrow & Manchester all rely on rail based links to their major city (and that was due to commercial pressures of user preference not external interference as all used to have fast direct bus/coach links to those places 20 years ago that faded away as rail just worked better for passengers) so their coach services are about serving other locations which are also outside such contractual controls at Luton & Stansted. Liverpool, Southampton & Newcastle are all much smaller local airports where smaller demand flows mean competition issues are less likely and any income gain for the airport from having contractual relationships are also less (& both Southampton & Newcastle it is a rail based link from the airport to local city centre as prime link - Southampton like Manchester does have a bus that runs airport to city centre but it is slow and indirect service primarily for local travel away from the airport, locals or airport workers not travellers to/from city centre).

The interesting question is why the Stansted Express train hasn't managed to dominate the market in the way the Gatwick Express did. Luton is slightly different as the distance from the airport to its station exists, even with the new DART link, and so a direct coach from the airport bus station offers some convenience advantages for passengers. Possibly it is down to the type of airline & so traveller, Luton & Stansted are both dominated by budget airlines so if the coach companies can keep their fares down then a comparison with the train becomes marked as often the train ticket to the airport is higher than the cost of the plane ticket (even on a more average rate and not one of the bargain couple of quid special fares these airlines can offer).
 

signed

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The interesting question is why the Stansted Express train hasn't managed to dominate the market in the way the Gatwick Express did.
Ticket price and the kind of clientele using Luton and Stansted

As you said, the train is a sticker price shocker, £21.90 for leisure travellers that are very price sensitive is a lot. Especially coming from countries where the pound has a lower exchange rate.

Gatwick sees a lot more business crowd which are less price senstive.

The leisure travellers being a lot more likely to just get a Thameslink-only or a coach to/from Gatwick as well.

When you reserve a coach in advance (which most leisure travellers will) you can pay as little as £8 or 9, which can be quite a lot saved once you start multiplying for the holiday vacations.
 

Deerfold

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Liverpool, Gatwick, Heathrow, Manchester, Southampton, Newcastle all cope with normal fares charged for public transport. Manchester, Heathrow and Gatwick both cope too without silly situations with coaches. I'm sure that Luton and Stansted could cope without doing it too.
Have you tried catching a coach to Heathrow?
From Victoria NX change more than the fare on the tube. From the West they charge more to Heathrow than to central London.
 

markymark2000

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Have you tried catching a coach to Heathrow?
From Victoria NX change more than the fare on the tube. From the West they charge more to Heathrow than to central London.
NX do but Megabus and Flix didn't seem as bad, except for where the route was solely reliant on airport passengers. NatEx can be reasonable when they want to be, depends on the competition and how much NX cares about the corridor. I know of places where it's more expensive to travel shorter distances on other routes so the pricing structure doesn't always make sense. That's not limited to Heathrow routes.
 

miklcct

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These airports do it to maximise their revenue from coach services (increasing the coach fares to the maximum and getting the best 'cut' they can from this revenue by competitive tendering and reducing on road competition). This revenue is then used to reduce the aircraft departure charges, which in turn reduces the headline airfares charged by the low-cost carriers, which in turn attracts lots of passengers to book those flights. Same with Car Park charges, drop off charges, retail outlet rentals etc etc., in fact anyway of raising revenue to reduce departure charges.

You don't really think that the low cost carriers can afford to offer £29 or whatever to Prague, without extra money being extracted from the passengers in some other way ?

They could, air tickets from Luton and Stansted could be a bit higher, as a result of that some passengers may rather go on a flight from another airport, so the air fares would get even higher because load factors would be less etc etc. Why would they want to do that?
Similarly, if the coach fares are a bit higher, passengers may also go on a flight from another airport. Living in NW London, I prefer Luton or Gatwick, and in the past I actually took Wizz Air from Luton even when there were cheaper Ryanair flights available from Stansted. Off-peak Oyster train fares from Gatwick is very cheap as long as the Express is avoided, compared to the airport coaches from Luton or Stansted, while Luton has very convenient Green Line 757 which stops right off the motorway at Brent Cross for the fastest possible connection. The extra fare and time for me to get to Stansted compared to Luton / Gatwick can easily be converted to a monetary value when deciding which flight to book, if there is a choice between airports.

The interesting question is why the Stansted Express train hasn't managed to dominate the market in the way the Gatwick Express did. Luton is slightly different as the distance from the airport to its station exists, even with the new DART link, and so a direct coach from the airport bus station offers some convenience advantages for passengers. Possibly it is down to the type of airline & so traveller, Luton & Stansted are both dominated by budget airlines so if the coach companies can keep their fares down then a comparison with the train becomes marked as often the train ticket to the airport is higher than the cost of the plane ticket (even on a more average rate and not one of the bargain couple of quid special fares these airlines can offer).
Stansted Express is slow, compared to other airport rail links, and it had run every only half an hour for a long time until very recently when the 15-minute headway was restored. Furthermore, Stansted Express is comparably inconvenient as well as it is at the end of a branch line, and it doesn't run through Central London in the way Thameslink does. In addition, the motorway options are much better from Luton and Stansted compared to Gatwick and Heathrow, in particular, it is a fast run down the M11 from Stansted to Stratford, or the M1 from Luton to Brent Cross, while there are no motorways from Gatwick to anywhere close to Central London.

Compared to other airports, Gatwick Express doesn't dominate the market but rail dominates the market because of the existence of cheap Southern and Thameslink options, and they are very frequent and carry you through Central London. Heathrow Express also doesn't dominate the market but rail also dominates the market because of the existence of cheap and frequent Piccadilly line and convenient Elizabeth line.
 

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