Flixbus Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

It really seems to be a total (and illegal) bodge of an attempt at entering the UK. Which is bizarre, as if they did it properly with the quality look and feel they have done in Germany I could see them being able to crush either Megabus or NatEx, as I'm not sure there's room for a third operator.

 

[carlberry]

I thought they were nuts not going to Manchester, that being by far the UK's largest InterCity flow.

In what context? Oxford-London is many times the size for coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In what context? Oxford-London is many times the size for coaches.

That may be an inter-city flow (so's the District Line) but I wouldn't really call it an InterCity flow.

 

[NorthOxonian]

That may be an inter-city flow (so's the District Line) but I wouldn't really call it an InterCity flow.

Yes, as someone who regularly travels between Oxford and London, it doesn't behave as an InterCity flow. The frequency is turn-up-and-go, passengers don't generally book in advance, and the distance is relatively short (especially if you're travelling to or from Hillingdon).

The route has more in common with the X5 towards Milton Keynes/Cambridge or some of the routes in northern Scotland than it does to National Express or Megabus really.

 

[carlberry]

Yes, as someone who regularly travels between Oxford and London, it doesn't behave as an InterCity flow. The frequency is turn-up-and-go, passengers don't generally book in advance, and the distance is relatively short (especially if you're travelling to or from Hillingdon).

The route has more in common with the X5 towards Milton Keynes/Cambridge or some of the routes in northern Scotland than it does to National Express or Megabus really.

But that's why the question is what is the context of an InterCity flow that makes Manchester the largest in the UK?

 

[richw]

It really seems to be a total (and illegal) bodge of an attempt at entering the UK. Which is bizarre, as if they did it properly with the quality look and feel they have done in Germany I could see them being able to crush either Megabus or NatEx, as I'm not sure there's room for a third operator.

Their reply to Doug was that he needs to give 7 days notice to ensure facilities are suitable! Disgraceful and clearly illegal for domestic services. And those of us who’ve followed Dougs previous issues as a wheelchair user will know that he won’t leave it quietly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Their reply to Doug was that he needs to give 7 days notice to ensure facilities are suitable! Disgraceful and clearly illegal for domestic services. And those of us who’ve followed Dougs previous issues as a wheelchair user will know that he won’t leave it quietly.

I wonder if their fledgling operation will survive that? Did their business model perhaps rely on hiring non-accessible coaches? And that coach clearly wasn't going to be temporary as it's fully liveried.

For such a large, successful company on the mainland, they seem to have missed an almighty trick, and it's likely to cost them heavily (and rightly so).

 

[JonathanH]

Some changes to the network from tomorrow.
063 London to Portsmouth is cancelled
041 London to Bristol has extra journeys on a weekend
020 London to Birmingham renumbered 023 & extended to Manchester with a revised timetable

Revised V2 schedule attached.

Two weeks and a route is cancelled? Presumably they realised that London to Portsmouth isn't a lucrative route for coach travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Two weeks and a route is cancelled? Presumably they realised that London to Portsmouth isn't a lucrative route for coach travel.

Goodness knows what they're doing. This sort of floundering is not at all what I'd expect from the largest and highly successful coach operator in mainland Europe.

Is it actually them, or is it a smaller organisation buying use of their name and presently flying it along with the nose pointing rather obviously at a massive mountain?

Did they stick pins in the map and then ring 0800 Rentacoach and go along with a bucket of green Dulux?

It's bizarre and totally out of keeping with their profile.

 

[richw]

Goodness knows what they're doing. This sort of floundering is not at all what I'd expect from the largest and highly successful coach operator in mainland Europe.

Is it actually them, or is it a smaller organisation buying use of their name and presently flying it along with the nose pointing rather obviously at a massive mountain?

Did they stick pins in the map and then ring 0800 Rentacoach and go along with a bucket of green Dulux?

It's bizarre and totally out of keeping with their profile.

it appears to be a franchise system with local operators buying in and then flix doing the online sales/ marketing etc

 

[richw]

Two weeks and a route is cancelled? Presumably they realised that London to Portsmouth isn't a lucrative route for coach travel.

The London Portsmouth looks like a rehash of the old first greyhound route and calling points. We all know what happened to that

 

[Bletchleyite]

it appears to be a franchise system with local operators buying in and then flix doing the online sales/ marketing etc

Ah, so some small UK private hire coach company has reckoned they'd have a go at it and failed miserably, then? Interesting.

Perhaps they need to pay more attention to the profile of their franchisees. I can't imagine Maccy D's accepting such mediocrity.

 

[richw]

Ah, so some small UK private hire coach company has reckoned they'd have a go at it and failed miserably, then? Interesting.

Perhaps they need to pay more attention to the profile of their franchisees. I can't imagine Maccy D's accepting such mediocrity.

Pretty much sums it up!

 

[busesrusuk]

Go Ahead London have never done any Nat Ex work...

 

[M803UYA]

Does Flixbus centrally plan their new services from Germany in their mainland European operations? If so, is this the model they're replicating here?

 

[MotCO]

I wonder if their fledgling operation will survive that? Did their business model perhaps rely on hiring non-accessible coaches? And that coach clearly wasn't going to be temporary as it's fully liveried.

Are accesible coaches legally required for schedule coach operation? I recall that, although most NatEx coaches are Levantes, there were some Plaxtons and other coaches floating around, probably not accessible, but have they now ceased?

 

[carlberry]

Are accesible coaches legally required for schedule coach operation? I recall that, although most NatEx coaches are Levantes, there were some Plaxtons and other coaches floating around, probably not accessible, but have they now ceased?

Yes since the start of this year, however I believe all Natex coaches have been accessible since 2012 (indeed Flixbus only have accessible coaches because of secondhand Natex ones).

 

[cnjb8]

I wonder if their fledgling operation will survive that? Did their business model perhaps rely on hiring non-accessible coaches? And that coach clearly wasn't going to be temporary as it's fully liveried.

For such a large, successful company on the mainland, they seem to have missed an almighty trick, and it's likely to cost them heavily (and rightly so).

Two weeks and a route is cancelled? Presumably they realised that London to Portsmouth isn't a lucrative route for coach travel.

Goodness knows what they're doing. This sort of floundering is not at all what I'd expect from the largest and highly successful coach operator in mainland Europe.

Is it actually them, or is it a smaller organisation buying use of their name and presently flying it along with the nose pointing rather obviously at a massive mountain?

Did they stick pins in the map and then ring 0800 Rentacoach and go along with a bucket of green Dulux?

It's bizarre and totally out of keeping with their profile.

Ah, so some small UK private hire coach company has reckoned they'd have a go at it and failed miserably, then? Interesting.

Perhaps they need to pay more attention to the profile of their franchisees. I can't imagine Maccy D's accepting such mediocrity.

Ugh, I knew everyone would get mega critical very quickly. They just started and have made tweaks to ensure their survival here, it's the same across the country, try a new route, then tweak it or withdraw it to continue profitability! I'm not so quick to write them off after two weeks

 

[richw]

Are accesible coaches legally required for schedule coach operation? I recall that, although most NatEx coaches are Levantes, there were some Plaxtons and other coaches floating around, probably not accessible, but have they now ceased?

yep since 1/1/20 it’s been a legal requirement for them to be accessible.
the plaxtons and other models are all accessible too.

 

[richw]

Ugh, I knew everyone would get mega critical very quickly. They just started and have made tweaks to ensure their survival here, it's the same across the country, try a new route, then tweak it or withdraw it to continue profitability! I'm not so quick to write them off after two weeks

It’s understandable to be critical. They aren’t complying with U.K. legislation for starts. And deciding a route is unsuccessful after 2 weeks is really poor. It’s not going to go busy overnight, give it chance!

 

[carlberry]

Ugh, I knew everyone would get mega critical very quickly. They just started and have made tweaks to ensure their survival here, it's the same across the country, try a new route, then tweak it or withdraw it to continue profitability! I'm not so quick to write them off after two weeks

I don't think anybody is writing them off. However how is anybody supposed to start to rely on something that's that unpredictable!
Even in the dark days of early bus deregulation there was still a six week window before the cowboys could move elsewhere (and yes I realise the same rules don't apply to coaches).
Transport flows take months or even years to establish even if your business plan is just to nick passengers off the most profitable routes.
The more serious issue is the allegation that they're ignoring UK legislation and fobbing off passengers who point this out.

 

[richw]

I’ve read elsewhere that Portsmouth city council complained due to them using The Hard without permission. I haven’t verified accuracy in that source.

 

[GusB]

It's a spectacular own-goal if they are running coaches that don't comply with PSVAR.

It's not as if these regulations are a new thing. The earliest I can remember seeing coaches with lifts and wheelchair spaces was the 55-plate Volvo B7R/Plaxton Profiles. That was fifteen years ago.

 

[Mwanesh]

I personally think they should have waited until this was over maybe nearer Christmas. The UK is a tough market to crack. They have it easy in Europe coach travel is not like UK. Lack of customer service is one thing. National Express and Megabus have realises the need for them in Birmingham, Bristol and Cardiff. Try finding a Flixbus rep at London Victoria.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ugh, I knew everyone would get mega critical very quickly. They just started and have made tweaks to ensure their survival here, it's the same across the country, try a new route, then tweak it or withdraw it to continue profitability! I'm not so quick to write them off after two weeks

It's quite right to get mega critical about them wilfully ignoring accessibility law - something that is not exactly a secret, and is completely unacceptable, both from the point of view of wheelchair users being unable to travel and from the point of view that it gives them an unfair competitive advantage in being able to use cheaper coaches. That the rest of it looks incredibly cack-handed doesn't help either.

And it clearly is wilful - that wasn't a hire coach in coach company colours because they couldn't find anything else at short notice, it was one painted in their livery which they clearly intended to use on service.

It is quite disgraceful and needs calling out.

It’s understandable to be critical. They aren’t complying with U.K. legislation for starts. And deciding a route is unsuccessful after 2 weeks is really poor. It’s not going to go busy overnight, give it chance!

I don't know about coaches, but with buses it typically takes 3-5 years of subsidy to properly establish a wholly new commercial route - that's what planning gain tends to provide for.

 

[Jordan Adam]

All coaches built for service work post May 2005 have to be PSVAR compliant (even prior to 2020), hence why from the 55 plate Profiles onwards all new coaches within Stagecoach had lifts, it's the same reason they stopped buying Skyliners because at the time there wasn't a PSVAR complaint variant. I don't think pointing out the illegal use of non-PSVAR compliant coaches is being critical as that would imply it's a matter of opinion, when it's not, it's a clear as day fact.

I'll be interesting to see how this plays out going forward, hopefully the appropriate authorities can be brought on to the case. I'd expect far better from a large firm like Flixbus.

 

[MotCO]

hopefully the appropriate authorities can be brought on to the case. I'd expect far better from a large firm like Flixbus.

Who are the appropriate authorities? Is it the Traffic Commissioners, or is it the Police? If a law is being broken, as opposed to a regulation, I assume it would be the Police.

Also, who is breaking the law / regulation? Is it the hirer (Flixbus) or the supplier (BM Coaches (London) and Turners Coachways (Bristol) etc.)?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Who are the appropriate authorities? Is it the Traffic Commissioners, or is it the Police? If a law is being broken, as opposed to a regulation, I assume it would be the Police.

Also, who is breaking the law / regulation? Is it the hirer (Flixbus) or the supplier (BM Coaches (London) and Turners Coachways (Bristol) etc.)?

The TC or DFT obviously.

I think the blame falls on both, first Flixbus for not ensuring vehicles used comply to UK regulations and secondly the operators for allocating such vehicles.

 

[M803UYA]

I think they've timed it right - if you assume most students will go to uni in September, they have a few weeks beforehand to bed the services in and become established.

Flixbus is not the only operator who runs scheduled coach services with non compliant coaches. Most snap services operated as such and Berrys of Taunton would routinely allocate non accessible coaches to their London Superfast services.

The difference is neither have been found out on twitter in the way Flixbus have - I get the impression they will resolve this quickly given the reputational damage that will come from this. They appear to be publicly aware (in the same way the train companies are) of anything appearing on twitter that could negatively impact on their reputation.

Can anyone shed light on how Flixbus operates on the European mainland and whether they centrally plan services and engage operators (like National Express does) to run services and if they're using the same method in their domestic UK operation?

I personally think they should have waited until this was over maybe nearer Christmas. The UK is a tough market to crack. They have it easy in Europe coach travel is not like UK. Lack of customer service is one thing. National Express and Megabus have realises the need for them in Birmingham, Bristol and Cardiff. Try finding a Flixbus rep at London Victoria.

 

[richw]

Who are the appropriate authorities? Is it the Traffic Commissioners, or is it the Police? If a law is being broken, as opposed to a regulation, I assume it would be the Police.

Also, who is breaking the law / regulation? Is it the hirer (Flixbus) or the supplier (BM Coaches (London) and Turners Coachways (Bristol) etc.)?

Its BM coaches as the o licence holder for the services in question that would be called in front of the commissioner . Turners coachways have all been compliant