France 'yellow vest' motoring protest

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by squizzler, 17 Nov 2018.

  1. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    Like a Critical Mass protest they used to have in London. It even borrows the symbolism of yellow tops (that used by stage leaders in Tour de France). However it's not about bicycle riders, it's the keen motorists out en mass.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46233560

    Any impact on rail travel (other than perhaps a general increase in demand and last minute bookings)?
     
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  3. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Reminds me of the fuel protests we had here back in the Bliar years.
     
  4. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    I'd have said it's more so a reference to the yellow vests that you must have in your car in France as part of the equipment that you carry with your vehicle than the TdF.
     
  5. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'd like to see a counter protest about the amount of pollution these vehicles and their users cause.
     
  6. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    I believe Macron wants to go green. Less car use; more public transportation use.
     
  7. telstarbox

    telstarbox Established Member

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    Critical Mass is still going btw.
     
  8. furnessvale

    furnessvale Established Member

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    It seemed to work. Taxation on motorists in general, and HGVs in particular, has virtually stagnated ever since.
     
  9. Groningen

    Groningen Established Member

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    Yes; remember the fuel protest. Also trains were affected, because they mainly run on diesel now and than.
     
  10. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member

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    I would not call his proposed hydrocarbon levy levels 'going green' - or anything close to it.

    To me, the levy seems very modest. The typical retail price of diesel in France seems pretty much on a par with other similar countries, even after the proposed increases in tax?
     
  11. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    I think he has to stick the course with the fuel tax. I don't follow the debate but strongly suspect that (like in the UK) the fairer instrument of wider adoption of road user pricing has been ruled out by the motoring community hence fuel tax being used as disincentive. If so, they just gotta suck it up.

    Macron has to stick with his guns if he wants a fair transport policy. The railways have already done their bit after the strikes of the summer.

    The number of injuries resulting from this protest is telling. The casualties amongst protestors are mainly not from the CRS (riot police) so much as from being struck by their fellow car users forcing their vehicles through the pickets. That suggests not all the motoring community is onboard, which also leads me to suspect the level of wider public support might be overstated.
     
  12. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    This is the beauty of French politics. The French vote for change, then don't like it when the person who they voted for brings in change :lol:

    On a serious note, there is an increasing anti-car sentiment in Paris - Anne Hidalgo for example as mayor of Paris is ramping up policies to reduce cars within Paris intra-muros.
     
  13. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    And has also persuaded the suburbs to accept a ban on older vehicles over a much wider area.

    https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/11/ile-de-france-metropole-paris-diesel-car-ban/575710/

     
  14. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    I understand that the fuel taxes are deferred for six months to consider other options. This is a rail forum, so my question is thus: What happen with the recent restructuring of SNCF including debt write off and market liberalisation? Presumably restructuring sets the railways up for growth driven by modal share. Will the railways still benefit from the reforms with less modal shift than expected?

    Myself, I think the only fair option is for congestion charge. That is a much more precise instrument, allowing the charging of motorists who roll into towns where they could use public transport without penalising those whose journeys both start and end in backwater places.
     
  15. Ken H

    Ken H Member

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    from what I have read the protests have morphed into a general protest against the french government. there does not seem to be any organised leadership so disparate groups are protesting different things.
    I have heard people are now against the UN Migration pact due to be signed 10th December
    but a general dislike of Macron

    And its spread to Belgium....
     
  16. Shaw S Hunter

    Shaw S Hunter Established Member

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    In all honesty it wouldn't be autumn without some sort of strike or protest in France. Once the winter holiday/skiing season kicks in I doubt people will be quite so keen to disrupt their leisure time. C'est la vie...
     
  17. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Part of the problem is much of rural France has very poor or non existent public transport, and much of France IS very rural with a low thinly distributed population, so it's often difficult to provide effective transport anyway, by any mode other than private cars. Couple that with extremely auto-centric development in all but the biggest cities for decades and it's easy to see the political problems of attempting to nudge and cajole polluting behaviour in the Republic of Michelin.
     
  18. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    The rail reforms are going ahead, if watered down a little.
    SNCF is to lose €35 billion of its debt (80%) to central government.
    It will become a plc-equivalent and lose its guaranteed monopoly on regional and long distance services (competition model not decided yet).
    Regional closures have been devolved to the regions to decide or fund.
    Meanwhile lots of trains (main line and TER) have been ordered using the existing SNCF frame agreements with French manufacturers.
     
  19. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    Probably like Germany, just allowing fair competitive open access for long distance profitable services, something which AFAIK France has yet to experience at all, unlike in most other EU countries to varying degrees of success. I don't know why open access hasn't happened even tentatively in France, whether it's been officially opposed by the state (in contravention of EU directives) or whether SNCF have used unfair tactics to prevent it. Again like Germany, in regional publicly subsidised operation I'd expect a concession model with rail integrated into broader local transport networks and fares structures.
    For me, that's the right level to make those decisions, assuming the regional authorities can fund whatever they wish to do.
     
    Last edited: 7 Dec 2018 at 16:02
  20. Gostav

    Gostav Member

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    I think the leaders shouldn't ignore the fact that today diesel lorries are still the mainstream of road freight.
     
  21. squizzler

    squizzler Member

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    Your post raises many questions left unsaid. We know that there are widespread frustrations at declining standards of living. But who or what is agitating people into street violence?


    The "yellow vest" moment is supposed to be spontaneous and organised via social media. We all know in retrospect that what were at the time portrayed as so-called popular uprising - Trump's election, Brexit, etc - were engineered for desired outcomes over social media by the Russians and outfits such as Cambridge analytica. Why are the yellow vest protests likely to be any different?

     
  22. Ken H

    Ken H Member

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    how come they dont have to advertise new train requirements across the EU, bit are allowed to do iirect awards to french companies?
     
  23. Shaw S Hunter

    Shaw S Hunter Established Member

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    The cynic in me would say that it's because France only follows the EU regulations that suits their own interests! In reality tenders are typically designed so as to make a French bid more likely to succeed and also include options for follow-on orders which remain valid for many years. Essentially France games the system rather well.
     
  24. TRAX

    TRAX Member

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    We don’t do direct awards.
     

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