Freiburg v Cambridge

[Magdalia]

Yesterday, as part of the Budget, the government published a document "The Case for Cambridge", which is here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/65e865a05b6524001af21a7c/The_Case_for_Cambridge.pdf

The document includes the following, as a sort of case study:

Sustainable infrastructure: Freiburg, Germany

Freiburg im Breisgau is a medium-sized city in Southwest Germany, with a population of just under 250,000. Over the past 30 years, Freiburg has received numerous accolades for its commitment to sustainable infrastructure and urban mobility. These achievements can be traced back to decisions made in the 1960s, when the city was experiencing significant population growth that tested the capacity of the local transport system. Freiburg actively decided to take an integrated approach to transport planning, and also to maintain and expand the tram network as the backbone of urban development. This approach has helped keep the city compact and easy to walk around. The transport system now consists of: extensive bicycle networks and parking spaces; easy access to public transport; and an integrated tram, bus and railway network. The tram is the centrepiece of the city’s public transport system, with over 40 kilometres of tracks that are separated from the roads. Reliable, convenient and frequent, the tram is embraced by locals and visitors alike. The results of Freiburg’s approach to transport planning are striking, with more options for residents and visitors to move around the city. The overwhelming majority of journeys in the city are by foot, bicycle or public transport. There are several lessons for cities, including Cambridge and its surrounding area, that want to emulate the successes of Freiburg in sustainable infrastructure development: the integration of land-use and transport planning; and public transport accessibility. The most important lesson is arguably a long-term and holistic vision, which emphasises the safety, needs and enjoyment of those who use live in and visit the city.

Does anyone here have knowledge or experience of Freiburg and its public transport? Could any of it be replicated in Cambridge?

 

[jamesontheroad]

I visited Freiburg im Breisgau in 2007, when I was an Erasmus exchange student in nearby Strasbourg. There were two particularly interesting urban areas that had been redeveloped. Vauban was a military base from the 1930s-1990s, and after reunification was returned to the city. The existing barracks were adapted to housing and then a new street (and tramline) was used to form the axis of a new neighbourhood of mixed houses and apartments. Then, in the west of the city, is an entirely new greenfield suburban development called Rieselfeld. Again: lots of high quality apartments and houses mixed together, in a way that British housing developers can never be bothered to do. Riselfeld was also built around a new extension of the tram system.

As for the rest of the city, and its transport system... it's a small university city with good cycling infrastructure. But unlike Cambridge it has trams. I can't see how the city can be used as a comparison given Cambridge has (repeatedly) turned its on back on light rail and gone for an interurban guided busway instead.

My understanding is that this project is going be funded as a "levelling up" project (I still don't know what that means). A bit bizarre, given how economically wealthy Cambridge is. Surely other towns and cities could benefit more?

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

There is a very good video on Freiburg from YouTuber 'Not Just Bikes'.

Freiburg

 

[Gloster]

In the mid-1990s I used to go across to Freiburg about once a month: sometimes I would use the bus as far as the interchange on the west side of the city, change to a tram there and use it into the city, before walking down to the station and getting a train back to Breisach. One thing that did strike me then was that although there seemed to be a good network, it wasn’t obtrusive: there were plenty of vehicles, but you weren’t constantly playing chicken with them as you went about you business.

 

[jamesontheroad]

There is a very good video on Freiburg from YouTuber 'Not Just Bikes'.

Freiburg

I'd wager a tenner on it being that very video that prompted an MP, intern or civil servant to come up with this idea.

 

[30907]

Worth mentioning that Freiburg also has an S-bahn out to Kirchzarten (and beyond) on the Höllentalbahn and to Breisach/Endingen on the SWEG network (which is quite rural once it leave the suburbs. It complements the urban networks - and it helps that the Hbf is rather closer to the city centre than Cambridge's.

 

[jfowkes]

I can't see how the city can be used as a comparison given Cambridge has (repeatedly) turned its on back on light rail and gone for an interurban guided busway instead.

Isn't that the point they're making? That Freiburg is a very similar city, but is different in a few ways (including choice of public transport) that Cambridge might learn from.

 

[Magdalia]

Isn't that the point they're making? That Freiburg is a very similar city

What struck me, watching the video, were the fundamental differences in history and geography:

• Cambridge was not bombed in World War II, so did not get rebuilt afterwards, and the old city retains streets just wide enough for two horses to pass;
• Cambridge did not build dual carriageways for cars in the 1960s and 1970s, all of the arterial routes do not have space to run trams on tracks separated from other road vehicles, even squeezing in bus and cycle lanes is difficult;
• although Freiburg has a river, it is not a constraint like the River Cam in Cambridge, which affectively surrounds the old centre on three sides.

I can't see how the city can be used as a comparison given Cambridge has (repeatedly) turned its on back on light rail and gone for an interurban guided busway instead.

And these are the main reasons why trams or other light rail don't work for Cambridge. Any tram or light rail system has to go underground to serve the old city and to cross the river, and has to share road space with other traffic on arterial routes.

I'd wager a tenner on it being that very video that prompted an MP, intern or civil servant to come up with this idea.

They may have watched the Freiburg video, but it doesn't look like they have ever been to Cambridge.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

What struck me, watching the video, were the fundamental differences in history and geography:

• Cambridge was not bombed in World War II, so did not get rebuilt afterwards, and the old city retains streets just wide enough for two horses to pass;
• Cambridge did not build dual carriageways for cars in the 1960s and 1970s, all of the arterial routes do not have space to run trams on tracks separated from other road vehicles, even squeezing in bus and cycle lanes is difficult;
• although Freiburg has a river, it is not a constraint like the River Cam in Cambridge, which affectively surrounds the old centre on three sides.

And these are the main reasons why trams or other light rail don't work for Cambridge. Any tram or light rail system has to go underground to serve the old city and to cross the river, and has to share road space with other traffic on arterial routes.


They may have watched the Freiburg video, but it doesn't look like they have ever been to Cambridge.

Freiburg may have been heavily bombed, but unlike many German cities the core was rebuilt to the former pre-war plan with many of the buildings restored or rebuilt in the original style. Isn't the point that by restricting private car access in the centre you make way for street running tramways?
The best examples I know of this are in historic cities like Besançon in France or Gent in Belgium, whilst Amsterdam is progressively easing out the motor car from the centre.

 

[Magdalia]

Freiburg may have been heavily bombed, but unlike many German cities the core was rebuilt to the former pre-war plan with many of the buildings restored or rebuilt in the original style. Isn't the point that by restricting private car access in the centre you make way for street running tramways?
The best examples I know of this are in historic cities like Besançon in France or Gent in Belgium, whilst Amsterdam is progressively easing out the motor car from the centre.

Many of the streets of Cambridge's old city are already effectively car free, and have been for many years. But those streets are much narrower than anything in the Freiburg video, and not wide enough for street running tramways. Restricting car access is to free up the limited available space for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no practical route for trams through the old city at street level, and no practical route for trams to cross the river by bridge, they would have to go underground.

 

[bspahh]

Many of the streets of Cambridge's old city are already effectively car free, and have been for many years. But those streets are much narrower than anything in the Freiburg video, and not wide enough for street running tramways. Restricting car access is to free up the limited available space for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no practical route for trams through the old city at street level, and no practical route for trams to cross the river by bridge, they would have to go underground.

Ghent has trams on roads that are as wide as Trinity Street. However, I don't think they go past places with as much power with the planning committee as the colleges.

The growth in Cambridge is going to be in the suburbs and satelite towns. Its hard to thread trams through the city centre, but it would be quite a bit easier to have them from places like Camborne, Haverhill, Cottenham, to the inner ring road, the stations, park and rides and big employment sites.

 

[jfowkes]

Many of the streets of Cambridge's old city are already effectively car free, and have been for many years. But those streets are much narrower than anything in the Freiburg video, and not wide enough for street running tramways. Restricting car access is to free up the limited available space for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no practical route for trams through the old city at street level, and no practical route for trams to cross the river by bridge, they would have to go underground.

Indeed, Cambridge Connect's plans for light rail have a tunnel between St. Johns College and the station. Expensive, but probably more realistic than trying to physically (and legally) negotiate an at-surface route. Still leaves the question of how to run on the arterial roads - in-traffic running seems to be the only answer give the available space, which would be a significant limitation without other traffic-reducing measures.

 

[camflyer]

Isn't that the point they're making? That Freiburg is a very similar city, but is different in a few ways (including choice of public transport) that Cambridge might learn from.

It's not just Freiburg but there are many similar sized European cities with well developed public transport systems which Cambridge could learn from rather than trying to be so innovative. Just buy something off the shelf which needs as little modification as possible.

A sub-surface central system makes sense as there just isn't the space available for surface services, if the city wants to be cyclist and pedestrian friendly but further out some kind of surface light rail has to be the answer combined with making more of the city centre vehicle free.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Montpellier, Toulouse, Bordeaux and Orleans are also medium-sized cities with modern tram networks (also metro in Toulouse) which Cambridge can envy.
The tram wires go underground near historic buildings in the latter two cases.

 

[Magdalia]

The growth in Cambridge is going to be in the suburbs and satelite towns.

The Case for Cambridge is clearly about expanding the city of Cambridge itself, not satellite towns.

Connected city quarters

Cambridge has at its heart an exceptional historic centre that deserves to be safeguarded for its architecture, heritage and landscape. It is primarily a place for students and tourists, with specialist leisure and shopping for residents of the wider area. To make sure that the city grows in a sustainable way that protects its central character, the government is examining major new urban quarter opportunities, plugged into and connected with the existing city. Any new quarter must embody the commitment to design and gentle density set out above, built in a way that is in keeping with the historic centre and that maintains proximity to the countryside. A sustainable transport network will also be key – including, for example, streets, bike paths and mass transit options – that connects new areas to existing ones and improves traffic flow. It is in this way that an expanded Cambridge can provide a network of beautiful and wellconnected town centres and economic clusters, where active travel is prioritised and with all the social and health facilities required to service local communities. While no decisions on the location of any new quarter have been taken, this pattern of development aims to protect and enhance what is special about Cambridge and will be central to assessing future options for sustainable growth.

Its hard to thread trams through the city centre, but it would be quite a bit easier to have them from places like Camborne, Haverhill

Busways are already proposed for both of these, and highly controversial. Both are paused because of funding issues. They don't address the issue of travel within the city.

in-traffic running seems to be the only answer give the available space, which would be a significant limitation without other traffic-reducing measures

Such as, given what recently happened with the Sustainable Travel Zone?

with making more of the city centre vehicle free.

Which streets are those, given the need to keep bus access (especially for the Park and Ride services) and maintain access to the Grand Arcade for vehicles?

Montpellier, Toulouse, Bordeaux and Orleans are also medium-sized cities with modern tram networks

But do these have an arterial road network that is (almost) all single carriageway and a river with severely limited crossing places?

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

Within Germany, Freiburg has a reputation of being a fairly progressive, laid-back uni city with a fondness of green issues. Its cycle mode share is really high to the point that cycle infrastructure that's fairly good compared to basically any other German city has to be replaced because there are just so many bikes. Trams are also very frequent (some lines up to every 5-7.5 mins in the peak) and well used. The Vauban example of building the tram line before the actual residential buildings has been mentioned already. I don't know a lot about Cambridge to know what could be learned from Freiburg

 

[jfowkes]

Such as, given what recently happened with the Sustainable Travel Zone?

I have no idea. But something has to change if Cambridge keeps growing, even more buses and cars isn't sustainable (in my opinion).

 

[MikeWM]

I spent a few days in Freiburg 25 years ago, though don't remember much about the transport infrastructure (so it can't have been *bad*, at least). I recall the trams being pretty decent and the heavy rail being efficient. Nice place.

I don't know if there is anything there that can work in Cambridge, though one thing I can pretty much guarantee is that yet more quangos will be set up to spend lots of money on consultants to produce some more reports.

Perhaps it is just some NIMBY-ism on my part, but I do feel Cambridge is about as big as it should reasonably get - particularly given all the infrastructure constraints it has. Actually I'd say it already passed that point about 10 or 15 years ago, hence my moving out to Ely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Within Germany, Freiburg has a reputation of being a fairly progressive, laid-back uni city with a fondness of green issues. Its cycle mode share is really high to the point that cycle infrastructure that's fairly good compared to basically any other German city has to be replaced because there are just so many bikes. Trams are also very frequent (some lines up to every 5-7.5 mins in the peak) and well used. The Vauban example of building the tram line before the actual residential buildings has been mentioned already. I don't know a lot about Cambridge to know what could be learned from Freiburg

Of the two famous university cities it's Oxford I'd look to convert to tram first - its quirky layout means it's almost linear, so very few routes would be required to be able to near enough do away with city buses entirely (bar maybe an orbital route or two). Cambridge is more of a challenge but in my view not insurmountable - narrow trams are a thing for example, even metre gauge, and unlike buses trams complement a historic centre.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Of the two famous university cities it's Oxford I'd look to convert to tram first - its quirky layout means it's almost linear, so very few routes would be required to be able to near enough do away with city buses entirely (bar maybe an orbital route or two). Cambridge is more of a challenge but in my view not insurmountable - narrow trams are a thing for example, even metre gauge, and unlike buses trams complement a historic centre.

Cambridge (like Oxford) did have a horse tram system until WW1, but neither made it into the electric era. Both were 4ft gauge. Freiburg trams are metre gauge.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

My eldest son worked for 6 months in Freiburg and lived in Breisach so a commuter in on the local train. This was 5 years ago - and it was diesel operated then , since electrified. A cheap weekly ticket was bought. This route also operated steam tourist trains in summer. Plans in hand I think to link Breisach to France by a bridge which unsurprisingly was taken out in the last days of the war - and only the road bridge was replaced.

A very good S-Bahn , Inter City services and the climate allows considerable vineyards. Splendid place. Local tram network also.

Hard to compare with Cambridge frankly - transport wise.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

My eldest son worked for 6 months in Freiburg and lived in Breisach so a commuter in on the local train. This was 5 years ago - and it was diesel operated then , since electrified. A cheap weekly ticket was bought. This route also operated steam tourist trains in summer. Plans in hand I think to link Breisach to France by a bridge which unsurprisingly was taken out in the last days of the war - and only the road bridge was replaced.
A very good S-Bahn , Inter City services and the climate allows considerable vineyards. Splendid place. Local tram network also.
Hard to compare with Cambridge frankly - transport wise.

Also with a good international airport nearby at Basel and a tri-state attitude.

 

[camflyer]

Which streets are those, given the need to keep bus access (especially for the Park and Ride services) and maintain access to the Grand Arcade for vehicles?

I'd certainly make Regent St bus/taxi only from the junction with Gonville Pl. This would allow the pavements to be widened as they often get very overcrowded. Perhaps close most of Trumpington St too.

Shutting down the Grand Arcade car park would be a start as it attracts a lot of cars into the centre causing a lot of congestion (just try getting out of the car park after a big event at the Corn Exchange). Not the the council would ever close it as it a big money spinner for them

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shutting down the Grand Arcade car park would be a start as it attracts a lot of cars into the centre causing a lot of congestion (just try getting out of the car park after a big event at the Corn Exchange). Not the the council would ever close it as it a big money spinner for them

Need to replace it with quality public transport first. Cambridge does to be fair have park and ride (my preference when visiting Oxford) but you can't complain about people driving in of an evening if it finishes between 1800 and 2000 - you need decent frequencies through to very late, probably 2330 weekdays and 0100 or so weekends, as Oxford does.

 

[camflyer]

Need to replace it with quality public transport first. Cambridge does to be fair have park and ride (my preference when visiting Oxford) but you can't complain about people driving in of an evening if it finishes between 1800 and 2000 - you need decent frequencies through to very late, probably 2330 weekdays and 0100 or so weekends, as Oxford does.

Absolutely. You need a good alternative before people will get out of their cars. When I go to the "Other Place", I find Oxford's P&R and bus network to be much better than in Cambridge.

 

[Magdalia]

I'd certainly make Regent St bus/taxi only from the junction with Gonville Pl. This would allow the pavements to be widened as they often get very overcrowded. Perhaps close most of Trumpington St too.

Trumpington Street is the only way in to the Grand Arcade car park and Regent Street is the only way out. These could only be done by closing the car park. I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[telstarbox]

How long does that congestion last for - half an hour each time there's an event?

 

[camflyer]

Trumpington Street is the only way in to the Grand Arcade car park and Regent Street is the only way out. These could only be done by closing the car park. I don't think that's going to happen.

Certainly not going to happen when the Council can charge people over £30 a day to park there and there are no other alternatives for getting home if you are going to be at an event until 11pm.

To be fair, parking is free after 6pm but that just encourages more people do drive in

 

[jfowkes]

Hard to compare with Cambridge frankly - transport wise.

This is the point. Freiburg is what Cambridge could be, with some vision, ambition and money.

 

[nwales58]

Haven’t looked at the document yet but an obvious UK/DE difference is ticketing.

For decades Freiburg im B will have had all-mode all-operator integrated zonal ticketing from singles up to seasons. People know that you buy a ticket or season and it works for all your transport in the area. Like in any other German/Swiss/Austrian/sensible city.

UK outside London is stuck with 4 decades of in- and between- mode pseudo-competition so the general public thinks urban public transport is complicated.