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Freight train derailment in Gotthard Base tunnel

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AndrewE

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And presumably the type might well appear on HS2 with its slab track (contract not awarded yet).
Oh dear! Can physically isolating the rails from each other have a significant effect on noise and vibration? I really would have expected tie bars somewhere in the design.
It looks to me as though it is the sort of "good idea" which works as long as everything is as it should be - and catastrophically amplifies any failure..
 
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bahnause

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Oh dear! Can physically isolating the rails from each other have a significant effect on noise and vibration? I really would have expected tie bars somewhere in the design.
It looks to me as though it is the sort of "good idea" which works as long as everything is as it should be - and catastrophically amplifies any failure..
A tie bar wouldn‘t make any difference with the forces involved. What would be the benefit anyway? LVT is used everywhere in the world, including the channel tunnel, the east london line etc.
 

edwin_m

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A tie bar wouldn‘t make any difference with the forces involved. What would be the benefit anyway? LVT is used everywhere in the world, including the channel tunnel, the east london line etc.
Maybe a tiebar wouldn't have made any difference, but it appears the blocks holding each rail fastening have parted company with the main slab at what I presume a rubber/plastic "boots" that provide some vibration isolation. This might not have happened if the fastenings had been set into the main slab. Or at least it would only have happened at a higher impact force than it did here. We don't know whether the impact forces in this accident were in the range where it would have made a difference, or whether there would have been any change to the accident sequence if it had.

This may mean that the rail no longer provides derailment containment, allowing the train to head off to one side.

Perhaps it doesn't matter in this case - the train had probably gone to one side already due to running derailed for some distance and being diverted at the facing points. And generally in the tunnel there is a containment wall each side of the track which would limit the lateral movement of a derailed train train before the back of the wheels got to the opposite rail - but this wall can't be provided at a crossover. But it could be a concern if this type of track is used with no other containment (generally the case in the open air except on viaducts), so the opposite rail may be the only thing preventing a train derailed towards the adjacent track from fouling that track.
 

bahnause

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Maybe a tiebar wouldn't have made any difference, but it appears the blocks holding each rail fastening have parted company with the main slab at what I presume a rubber/plastic "boots" that provide some vibration isolation.
Not just some isolation, the rubber boot replaces the dampening of the ballast on conventional track. The whole point of the system is, that the concrete blocks are not connected to the base plate.
 

edwin_m

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Not just some isolation, the rubber boot replaces the dampening of the ballast on conventional track. The whole point of the system is, that the concrete blocks are not connected to the base plate.
Noted thanks. There are other slab track systems which don't have this isolation, so I guess the dampening isn't fundamentally necessary.
 

AndrewE

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Not just some isolation, the rubber boot replaces the dampening of the ballast on conventional track. The whole point of the system is, that the concrete blocks are not connected to the base plate.
but I am surprised that the damping would be unacceptably jeopardised by having a tie bar between the concrete pads, effectively making them back into single sleepers. There used to be lots of these in France a few decades ago, an angle iron across the centre. I don't know whether that was to save weight or materials.
 

furnessvale

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but I am surprised that the damping would be unacceptably jeopardised by having a tie bar between the concrete pads, effectively making them back into single sleepers. There used to be lots of these in France a few decades ago, an angle iron across the centre. I don't know whether that was to save weight or materials.
It saves both, plus it provides an extra face on the sleeper to resist lateral movement in hot weather, plus it helps to prevent a sleeper becoming centre bound.
 

bahnause

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As said above, weight is an issue. But it also provides easy access for maintenance. One side can be treated independently from the other side if needed. Another aspect is drainage, very important in a tunnel like this. You can have the drainage in the middle of the track using the LVT system.
 

AndrewE

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As said above, weight is an issue. But it also provides easy access for maintenance. One side can be treated independently from the other side if needed. Another aspect is drainage, very important in a tunnel like this. You can have the drainage in the middle of the track using the LVT system.
...as you could if it was bridged by a tie-bar.
To my mind, having rails "independant of each other" is definitely a bad idea. Some of the first railways had independant stone block sleepers, and quickly moved away from them! I bet they had tie rods between the rails in addition though.
 

zuriblue

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Just to make things even better the Gotthard road tunnel was closed yesterday after concrete fell from the roof and a 25 metre crack was found. Now road transport must go via Chur using the San Bernardino road or the pass.


The last time the Gotthard road tunnel was closed for a while was after the 2001 fire and the SBB put a shuttle on from Erstfeld and Ambrose Piotta.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Travelled up southern side of Gotthard to Airlo earlier today and there are several wagons at Biasca with cut up wagons and bogies strapped onto them and am guessing these are the damaged wagons. SOB IR service running to time despite additional trains.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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From this article, it seems the Gotthard Base tunnel is open again for a very limited passenger service - the undamaged eastern bore is otherwise dedicated to freight.

From September 29, SBB began running a single passenger train through the tunnel in each direction; over the course of the coming weeks, a handful more inter-city trains will be added to the working timetable. These will all run at weekends, exploiting the increased demand from passengers and a commensurate weakening of demand for freight paths. The passenger trains will be formed of double-deck rolling stock with capacity for up to 900 people.

Repairs to the western bore will take several months, with a detailed plan available by the end of October.
Diversions of most passenger trains via the 1882 mountain route will continue, with double-deck trains not cleared on this route.
 

railfan99

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From this article, it seems the Gotthard Base tunnel is open again for a very limited passenger service - the undamaged eastern bore is otherwise dedicated to freight.



Repairs to the western bore will take several months, with a detailed plan available by the end of October.
Diversions of most passenger trains via the 1882 mountain route will continue, with double-deck trains not cleared on this route.
The diversion was a recent bonus for me, mirrorring a trip of years sgo.
 

800001

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Now quoted as September 2024 that the tunnel will be part closed as repairs will now take significantly longer.
 

nwales58

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Also, the SBB web site states from the December timetable change they intend to operate more and faster passenger services through the tunnel from Friday evening to Sunday evening, as well as freight. Timetable to be published end November. Rest of week is still freight-only.

The seat61 pages will then be even more complicated!
 

AlbertBeale

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Also, the SBB web site states from the December timetable change they intend to operate more and faster passenger services through the tunnel from Friday evening to Sunday evening, as well as freight. Timetable to be published end November. Rest of week is still freight-only.

The seat61 pages will then be even more complicated!

And the ERT folks will have fun...
 
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