From Norwich: no fares available for destinations across London via Liverpool St

[saxsux]

Hi,

I'm looking to travel from Norwich to Pinhoe next Tuesday. I'll be bringing my bike on the train, so planning to get the train from Norwich - Liverpool St, cycle across London, and take a train from Waterloo - Pinhoe.
Although I won't use the tube, it's normally cheaper to book a ticket with a maltese cross anyway (Splitting tickets and buying one ticket Norwich-Liverpool St and a separate ticket Waterloo-Pinhoe adds considerably to the price.)

The trouble is, I don't see any tickets on Tuesday that are available via Liverpool St. Every journey planner I've tried either spits out an error message or insists on changing onto XR/tube at Stratford (one stop before Liverpool St). I don't mean no advance fares; there don't seem to be any fares at all.

I've made this journey for years without issue (and I notice fares are available in the opposite direction).

Can anyone shed some light on why there are no tickets valid via Liverpool St?

 

[JonathanH]

Have you tried 'avoid Tottenham Court Road (Elizabeth Line)' in the booking engine? GWR gave me itineraries via Liverpool Street when I did that.

 

[hkstudent]

Hi,

I'm looking to travel from Norwich to Pinhoe next Tuesday. I'll be bringing my bike on the train, so planning to get the train from Norwich - Liverpool St, cycle across London, and take a train from Waterloo - Pinhoe.
Although I won't use the tube, it's normally cheaper to book a ticket with a maltese cross anyway (Splitting tickets and buying one ticket Norwich-Liverpool St and a separate ticket Waterloo-Pinhoe adds considerably to the price.)

The trouble is, I don't see any tickets on Tuesday that are available via Liverpool St. Every journey planner I've tried either spits out an error message or insists on changing onto XR/tube at Stratford (one stop before Liverpool St). I don't mean no advance fares; there don't seem to be any fares at all.

I've made this journey for years without issue (and I notice fares are available in the opposite direction).

Can anyone shed some light on why there are no tickets valid via Liverpool St?

Elizabeth Line and Sub Surface tube lines (District, Circle, H&C, Metropolitan) do allow full sized bikes during off peak times, in both surface and underground section. You don’t need to be worried about the situation.

 

[saxsux]

Have you tried 'avoid Tottenham Court Road (Elizabeth Line)' in the booking engine? GWR gave me itineraries via Liverpool Street when I did that.

Thanks for the idea... for the journey I was looking at, it seems to still want me to get off a Stratford, but instead suggests London Overground to Clapham Junction instead of the tube.

I asked in a ticket office today and they could generate an itinerary, but only with a fare that cost around £20 more (which is ridiculous, because an anytime single Stratford-Liverpool St is something like £6.70 cash or £2.80 contactless).

I think my best option might be to buy the £28 advance fare with the change at Stratford and ask the train manager's discretion to continue on to Liverpool St (or buy a separate Stratford-Liverpool St ticket).

I'm sure before Crossrail opened, journeys like this were almost always routed through Liverpool Street. I can't understand why it's no longer a realistic option.

 

[MrJeeves]

I can generate itineraries for this on Trainsplit fine.

The moment I choose Flexible, though, it jumps from £33-£45 for an advance to about £120!

Some of these fares are a single advance that permits your intended route (Norwich to Liverpool St, then Waterloo to Pinhoe)!

Ticket Information | Trainsplit

 

[island]

I don't know if the Elizabeth line has changed things, but the booking websites are equipped to offer people "easier" changes, and changing at Stratford to go on to Waterloo is certainly easier for most people than at Liverpool Street. At Stratford you change within the same gateline to the direct Jubilee line to Waterloo, whereas at Liverpool Street you would negotiate two more gate lines and have to take two underground trains as there is no direct connection.

That is not of course useful if you are carrying a non-folding bike, but it may assist with why you are being offered the route you are.

 

[mangyiscute]

Using https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ you can input change at Liverpool street which will offer you options where you stay on the train until Liverpool Street

 

[The exile]

Sounds like another example of computers telling humans what to do instead of the other way around. Assuming that what a customer wants is legal / physically possible, any system that will not provide it is at best customer unfriendly and at worst not fit for purpose. There are all kinds of legitimate reasons why a human knows what it needs better than a computer…

 

[island]

Sounds like another example of computers telling humans what to do instead of the other way around. Assuming that what a customer wants is legal / physically possible, any system that will not provide it is at best customer unfriendly and at worst not fit for purpose. There are all kinds of legitimate reasons why a human knows what it needs better than a computer…

There are several ways to get the change at Liverpool Street to come up for the 1% who have a need to use it. For 99% of passengers, it's much easier and more straightforward to change at Stratford.

 

[saxsux]

I can generate itineraries for this on Trainsplit fine.

The moment I choose Flexible, though, it jumps from £33-£45 for an advance to about £120!

Some of these fares are a single advance that permits your intended route (Norwich to Liverpool St, then Waterloo to Pinhoe)!

Ticket Information | Trainsplit

Using https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ you can input change at Liverpool street which will offer you options where you stay on the train until Liverpool Street

Thank you both!

I'd been avoiding Trainsplit as it doesn't support cycle reservations. (I could buy a ticket there, and then get a cycle reservation from a ticket office, but if it turns out there are no cycle spaces available after I've bought the ticket, I'm a bit stuck).

Interestingly, for the same train I was looking at, Trainsplit has a £42.20 advance single. There was £28.90 advance single on the GWR MixingDeck (changing at Stratford). £14 more for the extra 8 minutes to Liverpool St doesn't seem fair!!

If I try "via Liverpool Street" on GWR MixingDeck, I just get an error message: "We haven't been able to find any trains or fares for your chosen routes and dates".

I don't know if the Elizabeth line has changed things, but the booking websites are equipped to offer people "easier" changes, and changing at Stratford to go on to Waterloo is certainly easier for most people than at Liverpool Street. At Stratford you change within the same gateline to the direct Jubilee line to Waterloo, whereas at Liverpool Street you would negotiate two more gate lines and have to take two underground trains as there is no direct connection.

That is not of course useful if you are carrying a non-folding bike, but it may assist with why you are being offered the route you are.

Thanks, this does help me understand the way it is. I'm not sure I've ever made that Jubilee line journey before - I wish there were a sensible way to override it!

In hindsight, I've made the journey towards Exeter via Paddington a lot often than via Waterloo, so I might be misremembering/misunderstanding the Elizabeth line side of things.

Sounds like another example of computers telling humans what to do instead of the other way around. Assuming that what a customer wants is legal / physically possible, any system that will not provide it is at best customer unfriendly and at worst not fit for purpose. There are all kinds of legitimate reasons why a human knows what it needs better than a computer…

Computers follow instructions in code, that code is written by people. I prefer to think of it more that the designers of these systems haven't considered all the use cases they ought to have.

 

[MrJeeves]

I'd been avoiding Trainsplit as it doesn't support cycle reservations. (I could buy a ticket there, and then get a cycle reservation from a ticket office, but if it turns out there are no cycle spaces available after I've bought the ticket, I'm a bit stuck).

I know you can get normal reservations using the GWR site without a ticket... maybe they issue cycle ones too?

 

[The exile]

There are several ways to get the change at Liverpool Street to come up for the 1% who have a need to use it. For 99% of passengers, it's much easier and more straightforward to change at Stratford.

Indeed - but various examples given on here suggest that the "several ways" are less than obvious. It should be no more difficult and take no longer than telling a human "I want to change at Liverpool Street, not Stratford".

 

[mangyiscute]

I know you can get normal reservations using the GWR site without a ticket... maybe they issue cycle ones too?

Yeah from what I can see, if you go gwr website, my account, bookings, make a seat/bike reservation and do it on there, although when I tried to do it for a random Ipswich to London service, it said that it wasn't possible to reserve a bike space