Full Brighton Mainline Closure - 13th July 2025

[Bikeman78]

I would assume they will push as many people towards East Grinstead as possible. When the diversions last ran in January, they were not advertised to stop anywhere between Gatwick Airport and Clapham Junction, to manage overcrowding. The previous block in January 2024 had trains calling at Three Bridges and Horsham as well, but led to something of a minor meltdown so they're trying to push as many people onto the buses as they can.

Hopefully the trains will let people on and off at Horsham this time. Forcing people to make a two hour journey via East Grinstead when there is a direct half hourly train is most bizarre. There are already buses south of Horsham that day, according to RTT, so making people change three times to get to London would be rather harsh.

 

[IrishDave]

Hopefully the trains will let people on and off at Horsham this time. Forcing people to make a two hour journey via East Grinstead when there is a direct half hourly train is most bizarre. There are already buses south of Horsham that day, according to RTT, so making people change three times to get to London would be rather harsh.

I don't think it's bizarre, I think it's a way of subtly encouraging people not to travel without having to issue a full "DO NOT TRAVEL" warning. An unsuspecting would-be passenger will plug, say, Barnham to Victoria into a journey planner, see how ridiculously long the journey will take, and more than likely they'll decide not to bother.

I can't say I like it, but in the circumstances of this short-notice block, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't think it's bizarre, I think it's a way of subtly encouraging people not to travel without having to issue a full "DO NOT TRAVEL" warning. An unsuspecting would-be passenger will plug, say, Barnham to Victoria into a journey planner, see how ridiculously long the journey will take, and more than likely they'll decide not to bother.

I can't say I like it, but in the circumstances of this short-notice block, it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me.

The last block wasn't short notice. The half hourly 12 car trains were barely half full, as witnessed by me on the ground and posters on this forum. Picking up passengers at Horsham, along with people off the hourly Arun Valley train, is hardly likely to overwhelm them. I'd have thought they would like to keep some people away from the bus operation, rather than funnel everyone that way. The time when they got overwhelmed, were they advertised as through trains to Brighton? That might explain it.

I forgot to say that when Brighton trains divert via Horsham and Littlehampton, they do make a public stop at Horsham. They usually are full. There seems little reason to stop them at Horsham when the normal advertised service is also running.

 

[IrishDave]

The last block wasn't short notice. The half hourly 12 car trains were barely half full, as witnessed by me on the ground and posters on this forum. Picking up passengers at Horsham, along with people off the hourly Arun Valley train, is hardly likely to overwhelm them. I'd have thought they would like to keep some people away from the bus operation, rather than funnel everyone that way. The time when they got overwhelmed, were they advertised as through trains to Brighton? That might explain it.

No, I'm not aware of any occasion when there have been Victoria to Brighton direct trains via Dorking - the point has always been to give airport passengers a direct train to Gatwick, and they've always been advertised as Victoria-Gatwick. But until 2024 they called at Three Bridges, for passengers to change there for Brighton - that was really what overwhelmed them, I think, rather than the Horsham calls, but the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.

More importantly, the diverts in January 2024 fell apart because the timetable was just too optimistic, with short turnround times and minimum planned dwell times - so the trains kept getting more and more delayed through the day. And as soon as a southbound train missed its path at Mitcham, it was stuck behind a stopper all the way to Epsom, with no opportunity to overtake, and was then half an hour late. Then sometime around 7pm-8pm or so, a person was taken ill on a Victoria-bound diverted train at Clapham Junction, and the return working of that (the 20:11 from Victoria) was an hour late by the time it got to Horsham, completely full and standing... at which point it was terminated and sent back to Victoria, with passengers turfed out into the cold, narrow platforms at Horsham to await the next available train to Three Bridges / Gatwick. I eventually got home to Brighton four hours after leaving Kings Cross, having rather wished I'd gone via East Grinstead.

Also on the 20:11 was one passenger in a wheelchair who required assistance. Unfortunately the lifts at Horsham were not working, so the passenger in a wheelchair was even more heavily delayed and what should have been a less than 2-hour journey became a 5½-hour nightmare. Her story was published as a double-page spread in RAIL magazine (issue 1002 pp12-13 - scan attached below). I suspect this will have concentrated minds at GTR to make sure that kind of failure didn't happen again, and I get the impression that the decision to remove the Horsham and Three Bridges calls from the diverted trains was a knee-jerk response to this article.

I forgot to say that when Brighton trains divert via Horsham and Littlehampton, they do make a public stop at Horsham. They usually are full. There seems little reason to stop them at Horsham when the normal advertised service is also running.

Fair point, though that is admittedly a separate issue. My best guess would be that some trains have crew relief at Horsham? Some driver depots do sign the Arun Valley but not the Littlehampton branch.

Additionally (and this is straying somewhat off topic), those Brighton-Victoria diversions via Littlehampton were fine (in respect of loadings) as long as they also ran fast buses between Three Bridges and Brighton; the fast buses took the bulk of the traffic for Brighton (as it was faster than sitting on the divert), with the train there for people who weren't in a rush or preferred to take the train the whole way. But the fast buses haven't run for a couple of years, meaning that the Littlehampton diversions are much busier than they used to be.

 

[Minstral25]

You can't get to Redhill without passing through Stoats Nest Junction.
The blockage on the Caterham/Tattenham Corner branch may be to enable access for the engineering trains and equipment?

I'd assume the power is switched off in the Purley area to ensure safe working. Can't run Caterham or Tattenham services without power

Not sure why trains cannot go south from Redhill, but apparently GWR are only running between Redhill and Reading that Sunday so must be something else happening south of Redhill.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

According to the Stakeholder briefing they are replacing a crossing at Stoats Nest and need to close line for whole day. Currently to quote GTR "trains running through the area are subject to speed restrictions because of the need to repair this part of the track."

Theres no TSRs at Stoats Nest currently but maybe they have one of the crossing routes signed out of use and perhaps its been temporarily plain lined.

 

[Bald Rick]

watchmen* put on site.


* Can’t say I’ve heard a gender-neutral version of that.

Watchperson is the term.

 

[Class 170101]

GTR have just notified on the 13th July there will be a full closure between Gatwick and East Croydon, no services between the two.

It strikes me this is going to be very, very messy indeed. Of course remains to be seen what services to East Grinstead are run and if additional trains are run, but I find it very unlikely they can handle the entire Gatwick and South Coast passenger load on the RRBs.

Also intrigued was 'alternate' route they have found. I can't see an obvious one from Victoria, unless they're reversing at Horsham. Presumable a skeleton service at that, if they're advising people to take the RRBs instead.

I wonder how long thats been in the pipeline before being announced?

 

[Bikeman78]

No, I'm not aware of any occasion when there have been Victoria to Brighton direct trains via Dorking - the point has always been to give airport passengers a direct train to Gatwick, and they've always been advertised as Victoria-Gatwick. But until 2024 they called at Three Bridges, for passengers to change there for Brighton - that was really what overwhelmed them, I think, rather than the Horsham calls, but the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.

More importantly, the diverts in January 2024 fell apart because the timetable was just too optimistic, with short turnround times and minimum planned dwell times - so the trains kept getting more and more delayed through the day. And as soon as a southbound train missed its path at Mitcham, it was stuck behind a stopper all the way to Epsom, with no opportunity to overtake, and was then half an hour late. Then sometime around 7pm-8pm or so, a person was taken ill on a Victoria-bound diverted train at Clapham Junction, and the return working of that (the 20:11 from Victoria) was an hour late by the time it got to Horsham, completely full and standing... at which point it was terminated and sent back to Victoria, with passengers turfed out into the cold, narrow platforms at Horsham to await the next available train to Three Bridges / Gatwick. I eventually got home to Brighton four hours after leaving Kings Cross, having rather wished I'd gone via East Grinstead.

Also on the 20:11 was one passenger in a wheelchair who required assistance. Unfortunately the lifts at Horsham were not working, so the passenger in a wheelchair was even more heavily delayed and what should have been a less than 2-hour journey became a 5½-hour nightmare. Her story was published as a double-page spread in RAIL magazine (issue 1002 pp12-13 - scan attached below). I suspect this will have concentrated minds at GTR to make sure that kind of failure didn't happen again, and I get the impression that the decision to remove the Horsham and Three Bridges calls from the diverted trains was a knee-jerk response to this article.

Thanks for your detailed reply. I have used those diverts in the past, and they seemed to run fairly well, albeit with some minor late running owing to the tight turnrounds. The evening you mention sounds very unfortunate, especially for the lady in the wheelchair. I guess the next train from Horsham to Gatwick departed from the other island, which she could not get to. A public relations own goal.

The irony is that the current policy won't stop it happening again. If a train is an hour late, no doubt control will terminate it at Horsham. Hopefully they will ask the crew on the next train to open the doors and let the passengers on. Thinking about it, is the fallout from that incident the reason why they have auto announcements about defective lifts? Not that they help if a train is terminated at a location that a passenger was never intending to use!

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

I need to avoid the buses and East Grinstead and I am travelling from Bognor Reigs to East Croydon with 7 people with the luggage on the 13th of July?

 

[IrishDave]

I need to avoid the buses and East Grinstead and I am travelling from Bognor Reigs to East Croydon with 7 people with the luggage on the 13th of July?

Honestly, I would consider travelling Bognor Regis - Barnham - Havant - Clapham Junction - East Croydon, using SWR for the Havant-Clapham Junction leg. I expect you'd need to split tickets at Havant (i.e. buy separate tickets for Bognor Regis-Havant and Havant-East Croydon). Not ideal given it's three changes of train, but that's the easiest way I can think of that won't involve buses.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Wednesday at 15:29 ==

Thanks for your detailed reply. I have used those diverts in the past, and they seemed to run fairly well, albeit with some minor late running owing to the tight turnrounds. The evening you mention sounds very unfortunate, especially for the lady in the wheelchair. I guess the next train from Horsham to Gatwick departed from the other island, which she could not get to. A public relations own goal.

The irony is that the current policy won't stop it happening again. If a train is an hour late, no doubt control will terminate it at Horsham. Hopefully they will ask the crew on the next train to open the doors and let the passengers on. Thinking about it, is the fallout from that incident the reason why they have auto announcements about defective lifts? Not that they help if a train is terminated at a location that a passenger was never intending to use!

Yes, I have also used them in the past with some minor late running. But 2024 was definitely a lot worse.

In part, I think the problem is that the all-line blocks between East Croydon and Gatwick only happen once a year, so the timetable planners doing the STP (Short Term Planning) amendments get relatively little experience and may not be able to carry the experience from one year into the next - for example, perhaps the knowledge doesn't get passed on that the diverted trains need quite long dwell times at Three Bridges if they're not going to run late, or it gets forgotten about. This is in contrast to a Three Bridges-Brighton block, which happens 6-8 times a year and therefore the plan for Littlehampton diverts becomes fairly well-oiled.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Or what about Bognor Regis to Brighton Brighton to Gatwick Airport Gatwick Airport to Clapham Junction via Horsham then Clapham Junction to East Croydon?

 

[dodecahedron67]

I wonder how long thats been in the pipeline before being announced?

9th June first day it was mentioned to staff

 

[Ian Hardy]

I have just received an email from Southern and a separate email from Thameslink with a link to this webpage:
https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/service-updates/service-updates/engineering-work-between-east-croydon-and-gatwick-airport?utm_campaign=TL_Service_BML_180625&utm_content=Lorem Ipsum&utm_term=&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Adestra

No trains between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport​

Urgent track repair work is required between East Croydon and Gatwick Airport, meaning that all lines will be closed for the whole day on Sunday 13 July.

• Customers travelling between London and Gatwick Airport should use Southern trains between London Bridge and East Grinstead for frequent bus services between East Grinstead and Gatwick Airport.
• Customers travelling between London and the South Coast, including Brighton, should use train services to/from East Grinstead, where replacement bus services will be running to/from Three Bridges for onward journeys. This will take considerably longer than normal.
• Direct Southern trains will also run between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, via an alternative route. Please note, this alternative route will take considerably longer than the usual service between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport, so please plan ahead and leave plenty of time to reach the airport.
• Replacement buses will also run between East Croydon and Redhill / Tattenham Corner, between Redhill and Tonbridge, and between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.
• Journey times will be extended when using replacement buses. Buses will be limited, and queuing systems will be in place. You may not be able to board your chosen service, so please leave plenty of time for your journey...