Furthest distance you can travel in Mainland Europe entirely by local bus services?

[swt class 450]

So in the UK you often here about people using local buses (coaches are not allowed) to get all over the UK. I know many people have done Lands End to John O Groats and other similar journeys.

However i am wondering if this same sort of thing can be done in Mainland Europe? Can you travel all over Mainland Europe using only local buses?

So i am not talking about coach services (like National Express / Megabus / Flixbus / Eurolines etc). Coaches are not allowed. It must just be local bus routes only.

Say for example if you took a ferry across from Dover to Calais in France and started there then how far could you get? For example could Moscow in Russia be reached entirely by local buses? I presume you could fairly easily reach most places in Germany and Netherlands and Belgium by local buses only?

What is the furthest possible distance that can be travelled entirely by local bus services only?

 

[Polarbear]

Buses in continental Europe tend to work differently than in the UK. Generally, there are urban networks like in the UK, and networks that feed into faster public transport (rail & air).

I suspect that in countries such as the Netherlands, you could probably get across the country using just local bus services, the same isn’t possible in France (that I’m aware of), and I expect that the larger countries probably don’t have networks that would allow such travel.

I’ve not studied anything to verify this, but I know from travel around France that bus networks tend to radiate from towns, but often don’t inter-connect with each other. France though, does have a relatively low population density outside of the main cities.

 

[route101]

Can see it possible by train at least .Always wanted to do it in the UK by bus.

 

[30907]

The problem might be crossing borders. Ironically, not national borders, where if there is demand there will be buses/trams (off hand, NL to Aachen and Strasbourg to Kehl), but regional borders.
I remember looking at buses in the Mecklenburg Lakes area of Germany, and discovering that routes crossing the boundary between Brandenburg and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern had disappeared within the last few years. The same is true with subsidised local services on rail as well, of course.

One other thought: the bus/coach distinction is not always as clear across the channel. For example (because I have been exploring it today!), try looking at www.idos.cz which is the go-to site for CZ and SK - there are some "coaches" that are more like medium-distance buses in terms of route and stops, and some equally long-distance routes listed as "local buses."

 

[TRAX]

Polarbear is right about France. Local buses orbit around their main city/town and go into its suburbs, but usually stop at the end (or just after the end) of the urban area/agglomeration related to this city/town. Urban transport is usually subsidised by said agglomeration, so it understandably doesn’t pay for transport outside its boundaries !
If you want to go further than this, you need to look at regional road transport which is usually operated by coaches (unlike countries like Belgium and the Netherlands for example, where "urban-style" buses are extensively used on regional networks). Usually each one of these coach lines serve one or several specific destinations (usually small towns or villages) and stop when it all becomes just countryside. At this point, transport is only by rail, and sometimes by coaches, the purpose of which is more to link some small railway stations with other towns around that, rather than linking bigger towns and cities between them.

Thus if you arrive in France from the UK, you’ll have a few local buses to navigate a specific agglomeration, and once you get to the end of it, you need a car - or you need to come back and get a regional or intercity train. A local bus won’t get you very far, and if it does, it’ll be a low-frequency regional coach, interworking with the regional railway network.

So you won’t go very far within France, let alone past France.

 

[johnnychips]

I thought I’d be clever and get from Calais to Dunkerque then into Belgium but there is only a Flixbus. You are absolutely right about local buses: I can’t even get to Gravelines by bus.

 

[30907]

Polarbear is right about France. Local buses orbit around their main city/town and go into its suburbs, but usually stop at the end (or just after the end) of the urban area/agglomeration related to this city/town. Urban transport is usually subsidised by said agglomeration, so it understandably doesn’t pay for transport outside its boundaries !
If you want to go further than this, you need to look at regional road transport which is usually operated by coaches

Thus if you arrive in France from the UK, you’ll have a few local buses to navigate a specific agglomeration, and once you get to the end of it, you need a car - or you need to come back and get a regional or intercity train. A local bus won’t get you very far, and if it does, it’ll be a low-frequency regional coach, interworking with the regional railway network.

So you won’t go very far within France, let alone past France.

I think the TER bus network would fall into the category of what used to be called a Stage Carriage Service rather than a Coach. Pay on board, no need to reserve, etc. From memory, some Regions have quite extensive networks. But again, the routes tend not to cross Regional boundaries, which is where the problem arises.

 

[duesselmartin]

Germany's rhine-ruhr region certainly has an extensive network. You can do Düsseldorf to Dortmund in about 6 hours via Mülheim, Oberhausen, Geilenkirchen, Recklinghausen.
If one includes LRT it would be eben a bit faster.
Martin

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

I recall being told about 30 years ago by an ancient BR hand that, prior to 1939 it was possible to get practically all the way from the Channel Ports (presumably Calais) to Basel using metre gauge lines. May have been apocryphal, but how far could one get that way?

 

[TRAX]

Nowhere. There aren’t any metre-gauge lines left in France apart from a few small lines here and there, which serve more for tourism than anything else.

 

[30907]

I recall being told about 30 years ago by an ancient BR hand that, prior to 1939 it was possible to get practically all the way from the Channel Ports (presumably Calais) to Basel using metre gauge lines. May have been apocryphal, but how far could one get that way?

A quick look at the maps in Davies, Minor Railways of France, shows gaps in the narrow gauge systems relatively close to the coast, unfortunately, and rather more substantial problems in the Lorraine area (no doubt partly due to the 1871-1918 border), so it is apocryphal. However, you could have done a good percentage of the distance, given enough time.

Trax is referring to the present day scene - the French narrow gauge probably hit its peak c. 1930.

 

[radamfi]

I thought I’d be clever and get from Calais to Dunkerque then into Belgium but there is only a Flixbus. You are absolutely right about local buses: I can’t even get to Gravelines by bus.

There is a bus roughly every 1-2 hours between Calais and Gravelines (3 journeys on Sunday)

http://www.sitac-calais-opale-bus.fr/media/com_infosvoyageurs/uploads/fiches/Lignes Interurbaines Hiver 2018-2019.pdf

1 euro flat fare

http://transports.hautsdefrance.fr/transports-scolaire-interurbain/pas-de-calais/tarifs/

so you can get from Calais to De Panne in Belgium for 1 euro by changing at Gravelines, Dunkerque and Leffrinckoucke

http://www.grenstreinbus.be/busverbinding.php?provincie=-4&id=25

 

[TRAX]

Except these french lines aren’t local buses.

 

[radamfi]

Except these french lines aren’t local buses.

A blog page about the Calais - Gravelines service, which is a stopping service

https://velobuscotedopale.wordpress.com/2017/03/30/gravelines-au-depart-de-calais-bus-oscar-velo/

From Gravelines to De Panne, you are using the free local buses from DK'Bus

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/DK'BUS

 

[TRAX]

It’s literally written on your links: interurban.

 

[radamfi]

It’s literally written on your links: interurban.

But an interurban bus is classed as a local bus in the context described here, so everything other than long-distance coaches are allowed. Interurban literally means between urban areas, so by your logic you are only allowing buses that don't enter countryside.

 

[farci]

'Interurban Buses' is a recognised term for local buses smartly coordinated on sites like this:
http://www.grenstreinbus.be/summary-en.php . If you drill down you will find links to neighbouring countries via Belgium

 

[TRAX]

But an interurban bus is classed as a local bus in the context described here, so everything other than long-distance coaches are allowed. Interurban literally means between urban areas, so by your logic you are only allowing buses that don't enter countryside.

A local bus is a local bus, an interurban bus is an interurban bus. It's neither urban nor local, and it's considered regional transport (at least in France).

 

[Bletchleyite]

A local bus is a local bus, an interurban bus is an interurban bus. It's neither urban nor local, and it's considered regional transport (at least in France).

In UK terms it's a local bus, though. Mind you so's the X5 and it looks like a coach - a very posh one at that.

I think you get a lot less of this in many European countries - buses are often just there to feed the railway network, they don't tend to operate longer routes often paralleling the railway as we see in the UK.

 

[radamfi]

A local bus is a local bus, an interurban bus is an interurban bus. It's neither urban nor local, and it's considered regional transport (at least in France).

Using that definition, it is impossible to go between most towns by local bus. Only buses between towns which are joined together without any countryside in the middle would count. For example, Wolverhampton to Birmingham would be local, but Hitchin to Stevenage wouldn't be.

 

[TRAX]

Using that definition, it is impossible to go between most towns by local bus.

Yup .

 

[radamfi]

Even in densely populated countries like Belgium and the Netherlands they have "stadbussen" and "streekbussen", to distinguish between city and other services.

 

[30907]

A local bus is a local bus, an interurban bus is an interurban bus. It's neither urban nor local, and it's considered regional transport (at least in France).

As several people have pointed out before, the OP's term "local bus" covers both "urban" and "interurban" buses. The distinction between bus and coach isn't precise in the UK (.

 

[TRAX]

Even in densely populated countries like Belgium and the Netherlands they have "stadbussen" and "streekbussen", to distinguish between city and other services.

That's the same in France with urban/local and interurban buses.

As several people have pointed out before, the OP's term "local bus" covers both "urban" and "interurban" buses. The distinction between bus and coach isn't precise in the UK (.

An interurban line in France can be operated with buses as much as with coaches.

Clearly things are different in the UK compared to France (and basically most of Europe as far as the bus/coach market is concerned), in which case the OP's question doesn't really make any sense, especially if rules are bended to obtain a desired answer.

Using your thought process then, you could probably travel all the way to South Korea using """local""" buses from the northwestern french coast, then...

 

[radamfi]

That's the same in France with urban/local and interurban buses.

Stadbussen and streekbussen are both local stopping services operated by similar vehicles, so both qualify as "local" according to this thread. There are grey areas such as Q-Liners which are operated under the same franchise system as city services but are limited stop and often use motorways. However, there are usually slower routes which go through villages.

Using your thought process then, you could probably travel all the way to South Korea using """local""" buses from the northwestern french coast, then...

No, because at some point you would have a gap in service or have to resort to express long distance coaches like Eurolines, Flixbus or similar.

 

[swt class 450]

So if we include the Calais to Gravelines bus as a local bus service then it is possible to get from Calais (FR) to Adinkerke (BE) as follows:

1. Calais (FR) to Gravelines (FR)
OSCAR Bus - route 501

2. Gravelines (FR) to Grand Synthe (FR)
DK Bus - routes 22/23

3. Grand Synthe (FR) to Dunkerque (FR)
DK BUS - routes 17/18/19/C1/C2/C4

4. Dunkerque (FR) to Leffrinckoucke (FR)
DK Bus - routes C1/C2

5. Leffrinckoucke (FR) to Adinkerke (BE)
DK Bus - route 20

But now the problem is how do you move onwards from Adinkerke? I have been looking online and it appears that Adinkerke is one of the very few areas of Belgium that does not have any local buses (other than the one to France)? Can anyone find any onward buses from Adinkerke? Is it possible?

 

[radamfi]

But now the problem is how do you move onwards from Adinkerke? I have been looking online and it appears that Adinkerke is one of the very few areas of Belgium that does not have any local buses (other than the one to France)? Can anyone find any onward buses from Adinkerke? Is it possible?

Obviously the Kusttram is the primary local transport along the coast (route 0) but the network map shows various possible bus routes to Brugge, where you can get a bus to Breskens in the Netherlands.

https://static.delijn.be/Images/West-Vlaanderen_tcm3-5336.pdf

 

[swt class 450]

None of the bus routes on that map seem to serve Adinkerke. Only the Kusttram tram services appears to serve it.

 

[radamfi]

None of the bus routes on that map seem to serve Adinkerke. Only the Kusttram tram services appears to serve it.

Ah yes, I see. It looks like you need to use the tram for one stop from De Panne Moeder Lambic to De Panne Kerk, or walk that 500 metres or so.

 

[swt class 450]

I didn't realise how close Adinkerke and De Panne are. You could probably walk it within 20 minutes. So using this method it should be possible to get from Calais in France to most parts of Belgium and Luxembourg and Netherlands entirely by local bus (and a short 20 minute walk from Adinkerke to De Panne).