Future of Class 379

[Peregrine 4903]

Its trains that stop at Fishbourne and Nutbourne in the down direction and Bosham in the Up direction. Currently these stops are by the Littlehampton to Portsmouth service but that is withdrawn in the latest round of Southern cuts. The stops will instead be made by the London to Portsmouth services which will skipstop the minor stations.
DCO runs 12 car as far west as Chichester from Hove. I doubt thats an issue tbh.

Cuts?!! Pretty much everywhere is gaining trains per hour or maitaining their current service in the West Coastway timetable change.

 

[Skimble19]

It's been a while since we discussed the 379s. It's all been a bit quiet on the re-use front, how much longer are akiem likely to hold them without a lease before seeking sale/disposal?

Wouldn’t expect much movement before May.

 

[Millercool21]

Any updates on them being transferred to GN?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Any updates on them being transferred to GN?

There’s never been any actual plans for this to happen.

 

[dk1]

Any updates on them being transferred to GN?

Only rumours and speculation.

 

[JonathanH]

From https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-fleet-procurement.261285/page-4#post-6593716

Southern are getting the 387's, but this is partly to replace the (up to) 17 x 377's that are due to move to Southeastern

Do Networkers fall out the bottom of that cascade?

 

[LA50041]

From https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-fleet-procurement.261285/page-4#post-6593716

Do Networkers fall out the bottom of that cascade?

I don't know for certain, but yes that is the suggestion

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I don't know for certain, but yes that is the suggestion

I personally see that as an uplift in quality for Southeastern then. Is that to be 377/1, or is the subclass not decided?

 

[physics34]

Ive heard internally about the 387s coming to Southern for dec 24 timetable but nothing about 377s going to SE but i guess the latter thing is just not common knowledge yet.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Whatever happens with the 379s, hope they'll have a future at some point with young-ish stock like the 360/2s getting scrapped due to the unpredictability of UK railways and with too high ROSCO leasing costs.

It is looking precarious for the 379s together with the 350/2s when LNR have finished with them. There is also some similiar speculation & uncertainty with the 185s (staying with TPE, going to EMR or Irish Rail etc), 175s (going to GWR or Chiltern etc), refurb'd 458s absurdly possibly never seeing service with SWR, 707s perhaps displaced again if Southeastern chooses a whole new non-Siemens commuter fleet etc etc.

Hope the ROSCO falls over to push the 379s on GTR for GN when no other TOC wants these.

I know this slightly OT, can a TOC buy "unwanted" rolling stock outright and own these like GWR have with the 230s? Some ROSCOs may not be getting anywhere with some stock if they're charging too much?

 

[Failed Unit]

I know it is mentioned on the thread, but GTR hopefully really needs the stock.

Get rid of the 700s off the London - Cambridge / Kings Lynn, but as passengers are returning to rail, restoring some of the peak services will also be a good thing. There are a lot of the Peterborough - London and Baldock - London services missing. It would be even worse if we scapped them, then we are waiting for other stock to become available.

DeJaVu, when the 321s joined the area (apart it was pure growth rather then scrapping stock in the case of where GTR are now with the 365s and 455s)

 

[Skimble19]

There are a lot of the Peterborough - London and Baldock - London services missing. It would be even worse if we scapped them, then we are waiting for other stock to become available.

The Peterborough - Kings Cross peak services are planned to be increased later this year. Not aware of any plans for the Baldock services to return just yet though.

 

[Failed Unit]

The Peterborough - Kings Cross peak services are planned to be increased later this year. Not aware of any plans for the Baldock services to return just yet though.

It the moment, it would be a struggle to justify demand to be honest. Come of the Cambridge - London services are full upon arrival at Welwyn Garden City in the peak, but not crush loaded. A lot of people use the Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks services (either to get a seat or because they want to go into the core). I remember pre-covid they could be very full if a baldock service was cancelled. (with respect to you couldn't physically board at Welwyn Garden City). Peak is getting busy Tuesday - Thursday so I just don't see the demand for the Baldocks. Running the Letchworth stopping service later in the evening is a different matter, but that is unlikely to use extra rolling stock.

 

[Class 466]

I personally see that as an uplift in quality for Southeastern then. Is that to be 377/1, or is the subclass not decided?

It'll be good for SE to get some working 377s to supplement the awful 377/5s that seem to have worsening reliablity. SE have had to roll out an addititonal 2x6 car 465/466 diagrams on the Maidstone East Line on a short term basis to cover for the high failure rate of 377/5s.

 

[D365]

Whatever happens with the 379s, hope they'll have a future at some point with young-ish stock like the 360/2s getting scrapped due to the unpredictability of UK railways and with too high ROSCO leasing costs.

I'm not sure what you mean. The ex-Heathrow 360/2s were partially scrapped because ROG couldn't find any customers.

 

[43096]

I'm not sure what you mean. The ex-Heathrow 360/2s were partially scrapped because ROG couldn't find any customers.

Indeed. And they were never owned by a ROSCO!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'm not sure what you mean. The ex-Heathrow 360/2s were partially scrapped because ROG couldn't find any customers.

Indeed. And they were never owned by a ROSCO!

And were a comparatively tiny fleet.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I'm not sure what you mean. The ex-Heathrow 360/2s were partially scrapped because ROG couldn't find any customers.

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Indeed. And they were never owned by a ROSCO!

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And were a comparatively tiny fleet.

Unless compatible with the LMR 360s I would also say the 360/2s are more use as spare parts.

 

[Doomotron]

Unless compatible with the LMR 360s I would also say the 360/2s are more use as spare parts.

While we're getting a bit off-topic, it is worth noting that the 360/2s weren't really compatible with the rest of the 360s because of the unusual signalling setup in them, plus they weren't in great condition anyway. They were effectively useless, unlike the 379s which even though it is unconfirmed seem destined to end up with GTR in some way. The 350/2s are a bit more difficult to find a home for but like 379s I think they'll more than likely find somewhere to go.

 

[Wolfie]

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Unless compatible with the LMR 360s I would also say the 360/2s are more use as spare parts.

EMR has 360s, LNWR/WMT have 350s...

 

[bramling]

While we're getting a bit off-topic, it is worth noting that the 360/2s weren't really compatible with the rest of the 360s because of the unusual signalling setup in them, plus they weren't in great condition anyway. They were effectively useless, unlike the 379s which even though it is unconfirmed seem destined to end up with GTR in some way. The 350/2s are a bit more difficult to find a home for but like 379s I think they'll more than likely find somewhere to go.

We say the 350/2s will find somewhere, but when one thinks about it where might that somewhere be? They aren’t suitable as a 318/320 replacement, Wales has nowhere, GTR seems to be getting the 379s, Anglia and LTS have no use for them, and Northern seem sorted with 323s and new. All that leaves is GWR displacing their 387s (what’s the benefit?), possibly replacing the EMR 360s (numbers don’t fully match), or conversion to DC and used to bolster the 450 fleet (but is this even possible let alone needed?).

If anything I’d say the 350/2s could actually be more vulnerable than the 379s, simply because the 379s have the ability to get in their first. Reality is too many new electric units have been ordered, we’ve already seen the 365s get binned at half-life essentially as a result of this.

 

[Mikey C]

We say the 350/2s will find somewhere, but when one thinks about it where might that somewhere be? They aren’t suitable as a 318/320 replacement, Wales has nowhere, GTR seems to be getting the 379s, Anglia and LTS have no use for them, and Northern seem sorted with 323s and new. All that leaves is GWR displacing their 387s (what’s the benefit?), possibly replacing the EMR 360s (numbers don’t fully match), or conversion to DC and used to bolster the 450 fleet (but is this even possible let alone needed?).

If anything I’d say the 350/2s could actually be more vulnerable than the 379s, simply because the 379s have the ability to get in their first. Reality is too many new electric units have been ordered, we’ve already seen the 365s get binned at half-life essentially as a result of this.

It's shame that we couldn't have standardised on one length of EMU. We have a number of spare 4*20m EMUs, but many parts of country set up for 3*24m units.

 

[Minstral25]

Ive heard internally about the 387s coming to Southern for dec 24 timetable but nothing about 377s going to SE but i guess the latter thing is just not common knowledge yet.

If they are coming (big if I know), where would the 387s be used by Southern. Would they go to Lovers Walk for the Coastway, but as the interior layout is more suited to commuter areas, go to Selhurst or Stewarts Lane for Metro services alongside the 377/6 and /7 with similar interiors?

 

[LA50041]

If they are coming (big if I know), where would the 387s be used by Southern. Would they go to Lovers Walk for the Coastway, but as the interior layout is more suited to commuter areas, go to Selhurst or Stewarts Lane for Metro services alongside the 377/6 and /7 with similar interiors?

The first batch (ex-GWR examples) are due to Lovers Walk for use on Brighton - Southampton services, then further phases will see them on more coastway work. When enough are available they are planned (always subject to change) for the Eastbourne-Vic.

 

[Failed Unit]

Are the 387s getting fitted with the equipment for the ECML signalling? I know some of them are likely to remain anyway as GTR have never replaced the 365s so probably don’t have enough stock to do a straight swap (if the 379s move)

 

[jon0844]

Yes, 28 of them are getting ETCS fitted at Hornsey at some point.

 

[D365]

Are the 387s getting fitted with the equipment for the ECML signalling? I know some of them are likely to remain anyway as GTR have never replaced the 365s so probably don’t have enough stock to do a straight swap (if the 379s move)

Supposedly this latest 387 fitment (GN not HEx) is a “cross-ROSCO” design that will enable implementation on other Electrostar builds.

 

[JonathanH]

I know some of them are likely to remain anyway as GTR have never replaced the 365s so probably don’t have enough stock to do a straight swap (if the 379s move)

GTR don't run, and aren't likely to run, as many services on the GN as they did when they had 365s. It looks like what they are likely to run was built around 36 4-car units so seems possible it would be the 30 379s plus the 6 387/3s.

 

[Energy]

GTR don't run, and aren't likely to run, as many services on the GN as they did when they had 365s. It looks like what they are likely to run was built around 36 4-car units so seems possible it would be the 30 379s plus the 6 387/3s.

There are 4 spare 700s from memory, I wouldn't be surprised if these got used instead of 387s.

 

[JonathanH]

There are 4 spare 700s from memory, I wouldn't be surprised if these got used instead of 387s.

There are spare 717s as well.