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Future of the GWR electrification

blueberry11

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Are there any short to medium term plans to electrify the paused (deferred) sections of the GWR electrification? Especially the Bristol Parkway to Temple Meads and Oxford to Didcot sections, and maybe the branch lines. Given that these sections are paused and not cancelled, are they going to happen by 2030?

I can't see the section from Cardiff to Swansea done anytime soon as that is the only section that is formally cancelled.
 
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anthony263

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Are there any short to medium term plans to electrify the paused (deferred) sections of the GWR electrification? Especially the Bristol Parkway to Temple Meads and Oxford to Didcot sections, and maybe the branch lines. Given that these sections are paused and not cancelled, are they going to happen by 2030?

I can't see the section from Cardiff to Swansea done anytime soon as that is the only section that is formally cancelled.
They pushing to get Filton Bank wired into Bristol TM. If they can reduce costs possibly copying what TFW are doing on the valley lines. Bristol TM to Chippenham is also being pushed for by GWR sane with Oxford.

Cardiff to Swansea will be done at somepoint
 

Brissle Girl

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They pushing to get Filton Bank wired into Bristol TM. If they can reduce costs possibly copying what TFW are doing on the valley lines.
Who are “they”?

I’m not sure which aspects of the valleys electrification you are thinking of. Discontinuous electrification would feel inappropriate for a major four track railway.
 

takno

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Who are “they”?

I’m not sure which aspects of the valleys electrification you are thinking of. Discontinuous electrification would feel inappropriate for a major four track railway.
The Bristol Combined Authority were pushing for Filton Bank, and wanted to spend some theoretical money or other on it. I think the main proposed method for reducing costs was to use TTCs so that 2 of the 4 tracks could stay open.

Given that discontinuous 750v DC electrification would be a great deal worse than useless on all the mentioned routes, and the whole process has involved months of planned closures followed by months more of unplanned closures, I assume any learnings from TfW would be purely cautionary.
 

zwk500

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Who are “they”?
West of England Combined Authority (there's been threads on it back around January when some funding was announced).
I’m not sure which aspects of the valleys electrification you are thinking of. Discontinuous electrification would feel inappropriate for a major four track railway.
It will certainly be continuous electrification of Filton Bank, otherwise there'd be zero point. What they might be looking at from the Valleys electrification is some of the strategies used to avoid bridge rebuilds such as insulating paint and surge arrestors. However I don't think there's any particularly troublesome metal overbridges between Parkway and Temple Meads.
 

oglord

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Given that discontinuous 750v DC electrification would be a great deal worse than useless on all the mentioned routes, and the whole process has involved months of planned closures followed by months more of unplanned closures, I assume any learnings from TfW would be purely cautionary.
The "Core Valleys" electrification is 25kV, not 750VDC.
 

blueberry11

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It will certainly be continuous electrification of Filton Bank, otherwise there'd be zero point. What they might be looking at from the Valleys electrification is some of the strategies used to avoid bridge rebuilds such as insulating paint and surge arrestors. However I don't think there's any particularly troublesome metal overbridges between Parkway and Temple Meads.
Given that the Filton Bank was doubled to four track as part of the electrification works, only for the wires to be deferred. The bridges have been prepped for electrification, including raising the bridges and/or the parapets where required.
 

Brissle Girl

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West of England Combined Authority (there's been threads on it back around January when some funding was announced).

It will certainly be continuous electrification of Filton Bank, otherwise there'd be zero point. What they might be looking at from the Valleys electrification is some of the strategies used to avoid bridge rebuilds such as insulating paint and surge arrestors. However I don't think there's any particularly troublesome metal overbridges between Parkway and Temple Meads.
Have they actually been using insulating paint - the example in Cardiff widely spoken of was actually on the GW electrification project?
 

anthony263

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West of England Combined Authority (there's been threads on it back around January when some funding was announced).

It will certainly be continuous electrification of Filton Bank, otherwise there'd be zero point. What they might be looking at from the Valleys electrification is some of the strategies used to avoid bridge rebuilds such as insulating paint and surge arrestors. However I don't think there's any particularly troublesome metal overbridges between Parkway and Temple Meads.
Been trying to find the article I read it input it was mentioned the bridge by Lawrence Hill
 

snowball

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Recent related threads:



 

zwk500

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Have they actually been using insulating paint - the example in Cardiff widely spoken of was actually on the GW electrification project?
These are the meeting minutes: https://westofengland-ca.moderngov.co.uk/documents/s7726/Item 15 - Transport Infrastructure Projects.pdf

Important quotes are:
78. The primary focus of the initial phase will be to work closely with Network Rail’s specialist supply chain to conduct a detailed review of identified innovation/value engineering opportunities. The aim of this work is to realise opportunities to reduce the unit cost of electrification, initially focused on Filton Bank. These opportunities include the following.
78.1 Laser surveys to prove that an innovative bridge coating, adopted from projects in South-Wales, will enable overhead lines to pass below Church Road bridge (Lawrence Hill Station). The alternative is to reconstruct the bridge at significant cost. 78.2 Revisit the foundation design and ground conditions information, to see what locations the current proposed higher cost rock anchors can be changed for a more conventional piled solution.
78.3 Demonstrate the constructability of Network Rail’s novel ‘push out’ cantilever system for the overhead stanchions (to support the wires). Should feasibility be demonstrated, this would allow construction to be done on a four-track railway with a two-track railway still running. This would dramatically reduce track access costs.
78.4 Survey the Bristol Temple Meads station train shed to prove that it could be modified to take the loadings of ‘head spans’ or alternative solutions including those adopted on tram lines (electrification infrastructure). If this is achievable, it will avoid costly movement of railway signals and ease the impact on the building’s Grade 1 heritage listing.

79. The aim of exploring these value engineering opportunities is to reduce the unit cost of electrification from c. £3-4m per single track kilometre to c. £1-2m per single track kilometre. This would mean the construction cost of delivering Filton Bank electrification would be in the range of £30 - £50m.
So yes you are correct it's the SWML rather than the Valleys electrification they're hoping to learn from. All the other points have been covered in discussion.
 

Horizon22

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I don't think the branches are as much of a priority as Didcot - Oxford and continuing to Bristol TM.

If the West Ealing battery charging trial with the 230s goes well, that could be a suitable short-medium term plan for the Thames Valley branches.
 

Trainman40083

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I don't think the branches are as much of a priority as Didcot - Oxford and continuing to Bristol TM.

If the West Ealing battery charging trial with the 230s goes well, that could be a suitable short-medium term plan for the Thames Valley branches.
I presume Oxford to Didcot comes back when they have finally remodelled Oxford Railway Station.... Wonder if the plans for the Cowley branch also play a part?
 

brad465

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As things stand Filton Bank won't achieve much unless further extensions in the Bristol metro area are also done: the only services I can think of that will use it are the Cardiff-Taunton/Penzance services while IET operated, and GWR diverts. Unless of course I've missed off some other existing services that can use OHLE on that section (the Bristol express services would have used it had covid not seen their end).
 

Brissle Girl

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Agree with @brad465. I would put Oxford to Didcot way above completion to Bristol Temple Meads in any priority list, as there would be a very tangible customer benefit from day 1 (assuming GWR actually now has enough 387s to run to Oxford, since they gave some away and run both the HEx service with them and some Cardiff services).
 

zwk500

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As things stand Filton Bank won't achieve much unless further extensions in the Bristol metro area are also done: the only services I can think of that will use it are the Cardiff-Taunton/Penzance services while IET operated, and GWR diverts. Unless of course I've missed off some other existing services that can use OHLE on that section (the Bristol express services would have used it had covid not seen their end).
If you wire beyond the signal the Filton Abbey Wood terminator could also go electric, as well as the ECS moves up Filton Bank. It would also lend strong impetus to finishing off Chippenham-Bristol. Agree with Oxford-Didcot being higher priority though.
 

anthony263

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If you wire beyond the signal the Filton Abbey Wood terminator could also go electric, as well as the ECS moves up Filton Bank. It would also lend strong impetus to finishing off Chippenham-Bristol. Agree with Oxford-Didcot being higher priority

Depends who's funding it. If moneys there's money for the filton bank to be wired thrn that will be done. Woth project churchwood abd GWR potentially ordering new stock you coule run BEMUs on say Weston-super-Mare to Avonmouth/Severn beach services etc
 

zwk500

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Depends who's funding it. If moneys there's money for the filton bank to be wired thrn that will be done. Woth project churchwood abd GWR potentially ordering new stock you coule run BEMUs on say Weston-super-Mare to Avonmouth/Severn beach services etc
West of England Combined Authority are funding it at this stage. I'd be very surprised if they didn't wire far enough round the chord for the reversal to take place. If it's only wires to TM then I suspect BEMUs won't have enough charge for Severn Beach/Weston services, although you could split those services at Temple Meads to give the BEMUs enough time to charge and continue to use DMUs on the Weston services.
 

blueberry11

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As things stand Filton Bank won't achieve much unless further extensions in the Bristol metro area are also done: the only services I can think of that will use it are the Cardiff-Taunton/Penzance services while IET operated, and GWR diverts. Unless of course I've missed off some other existing services that can use OHLE on that section (the Bristol express services would have used it had covid not seen their end).
There are no trains from Paddington to Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway? Likewise, I can see that electrification stops just short of Chippenham for some odd reason, like with the Midland Mainline project short of Leicester.
 

Trainman40083

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There are no trains from Paddington to Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway? Likewise, I can see that electrification stops just short of Chippenham for some odd reason, like with the Midland Mainline project short of Leicester.
You mention the MML, but the plans are out for the section Wigston to East Midlands Parkway. I seem to recall concern at the time about visible OHLE through Bath.
 

Western Sunset

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Been trying to find the article I read it input it was mentioned the bridge by Lawrence Hill
This is indeed a metal overbridge. No abutment extensions have yet been carried out on it. I think that is the only one which may have any "issues".

Wiring Parkway/Patchway to BTM would allow IETs on the Cardiff trains to continue on electric all the way to BTM. Likewise, IETs used on Worcester trains could pan up at Parkway for the run into BTM.
 
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YSTrains

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May i also ask, why is Chippenham station still not electrified? You can see the overhead wires end just before arriving at the station.
 

zwk500

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There are no trains from Paddington to Temple Meads via Bristol Parkway?
Not ordinarily, they all go via Bath other than odd ones at the beginning or end of the day. However if there are engineering works or problems they can divert via Parkway.
Likewise, I can see that electrification stops just short of Chippenham for some odd reason
I seem to recall concern at the time about visible OHLE through Bath.
It has been mentioned before that the concerns over the OLE were resolved with a special design, the primary issue was that the project run out of money.
 
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Annetts key

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As things stand Filton Bank won't achieve much unless further extensions in the Bristol metro area are also done: the only services I can think of that will use it are the Cardiff-Taunton/Penzance services while IET operated, and GWR diverts. Unless of course I've missed off some other existing services that can use OHLE on that section (the Bristol express services would have used it had covid not seen their end).
ECS to/from Stoke Gifford to/from BTM/W-s-M.
The small number of BTM to/from Pad via BPW. E.g. like this one
 

blueberry11

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You mention the MML, but the plans are out for the section Wigston to East Midlands Parkway. I seem to recall concern at the time about visible OHLE through Bath.
I forgot to mention that once the Kettering to South Wigston of the MML electrification is done, it will temporarily stop short of Leicester (about 4 miles).
 

Doctor Fegg

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Wiring Parkway/Patchway to BTM would allow IETs on the Cardiff trains to continue on electric all the way to BTM. Likewise, IETs used on Worcester trains could pan up at Parkway for the run into BTM.
Though presumably the Bristol–Cheltenham/Worcester regional trains will be something other than IETs by the time of electrification - either 175s or "Churchwards".
 

Western Sunset

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Though presumably the Bristol–Cheltenham/Worcester regional trains will be something other than IETs by the time of electrification - either 175s or "Churchwards".
One hopes so.
The use of express IETs on secondary services (such as Worcester - Bristol as is currently the case), seems a poor utilisation of resources when many long-distance trains are only formed of a 5-car unit. Only last week I saw a 9-car on a Bristol - Worcester diagram. That seems crazy, unless it was on a fill-in turn between working on the Cotswolds line.
This all appears indicative of a shortage of suitable units to cover all local/secondary diagrams. But that's getting away from the electrification question...
 

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