Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[ainsworth74]

Anyone spotted TPE's consultation yet? I can't seem to find it, though there's a certain amusement in that TPE can't launch a consultation on time to go with the trains they can't run on time (or at all...)!

 

[Goldfish62]

Given that this is a DfT-directed exercise it's surprising that individual TOCs have taken such different approaches, both to the format of the consultation materials and to the substance of the proposals

Agreed. Eg SWR and GWR are completely different formats (SWR have at least produced a proper consultation document) and have completely different proposals.

 

[skyhigh]

Anyone spotted TPE's consultation yet? I can't seem to find it, though there's a certain amusement in that TPE can't launch a consultation on time to go with the trains they can't run on time (or at all...)!

It was there about an hour ago.

Ticket Offices Update | TransPennine Express

www.tpexpress.co.uk

Huddersfield and Manchester Airport remaining.

 

[ainsworth74]

It was there about an hour ago.

Ticket Offices Update | TransPennine Express

www.tpexpress.co.uk

Huddersfield and Manchester Airport remaining.

Well it was well hidden in that case! Thanks

 

[156421]

In addition to the slashing of hours for which the staff are available, I note also that the "journeymakers" (incidentally the dumbest new term I've heard for a while) availability times are (Mon-Fri): Workington 09:30 to 11:30; Whitehaven 12:00 to 14:00. So they can slash the number of staff by having them cover 2 stations. Absolute scandal.

 

[DMckduck]

The Northern one shows how much of a lie it is that the people in the ticket office are going to be replaced by staff giving 'face to face' help.

Take Huyton, for example. A fairly busy station with a wide variety of customers with various travel needs. Current ticket office hours 0540 to 2359 Monday to Saturday, 0810 to 2335 on Sunday.

Proposed hours for 'journey makers' (ugh!) : 0700 to 1030 Monday to Friday, 0900 to 1230 Saturday, nothing on Sunday. That's a cut of over 80% as to the hours staff will be available.

It’s also not business critical so you will find lots of gaps in staffing at major/tier 1 stations being covered by staff from tier 2 and 3 resulting in no one. What I suspect will happen is 6-12 months of good staffing and then a slow erosion which is never replaced. There’s stations on my local network the same as yours that are going from all day coverage to peak hours only

 

[Jim the Jim]

Cambridge North yesterday: built without ticket office. Large group struggling to use TVM, blocking access to other machines as staff member tried to help them. Everyone would have been better off with her serving them from behind a desk in the traditional way.

This sort of thing happens there all the time. And this was just a quiet Tuesday afternoon; it's much worse at busy times.

I suppose it might work better if staff had their own handheld machines to sell tickets like guards do.

It doesn't help that we have possibly some of the most complicated ticketing arrangements on the planet. Countries with simpler fares structures can make do with less staffing.

 

[vikingdriver]

Surprisingly positive changes from SWR, at least at the stations around me (Southampton - Weymouth). While some stations, like Christchurch, lose their afternoon staffing, others like Weymouth improve quite significantly. Stations like Wareham also keep their ticket office as a "Category 1" station. As long as the hours promised are stuck to I would call the changes a net positive, with some unfortunate loses for stations like Pokesdown.

They are proposing to close all ticket offices. Point 2 of the proposal.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Consultation is obviously a sham. Barely 21 days and dropped unexpectedly. Many people might not be aware about the consultation by the time is over. Which is obiously the whole point.

I had expected it to be launched at the end of next week so it ran during the school holidays and would probably attract fewer responses

"journeymakers" (incidentally the dumbest new term I've heard for a while)

I assume it’s derived from the “games maker” volunteer roles at stations during the 2012 Olympics

 

[A0]

Avanti closing all their bookings office seems reasonable if the context is that WMR run New Street and Euston, Northern Rail Piccadilly etc.

WMR don't run New Street, Euston or Piccadilly - those are run by Network Rail

 

[tony6499]

Is ticket assistance someone standing around ? Looks like GTR, even Victoria and Brighton going that way, madness

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Manchester Piccadilly loses its ticket office yet Glossop retains one. Funny old world - not something I would have predicted. Victoria and Oxford Road also retains them. No doubt Andy Burnham will have something to say - the 'Manchester Evening News' hasn't woken up yet.

 

[kkong]

WMR don't run New Street, Euston or Piccadilly - those are run by Network Rail

I think the suggestion was that WMR would run the "ticket offices", not the stations...

 

[DMckduck]

Well that’s unexpected, certainly thought they’d keep some like London Paddington, Bristol, Reading, but even that is going. I believe that might make GWR the worst TOC for removing ticket offices.

Some other things I’ve noticed though are that Advance date changes on GWR bought tickets will no longer be possible. Does anyone know why they can’t move this online? Many companies offer it, some like CrossCountry for free. That seems ridiculous.

If you look at the list of places to buy tickets after this, the Cotswold Railcard doesn’t show any options, so I presume this is the death of that as well.

SWR are decimating the lot and replacing tier 1 stations with “multiple” staff members

 

[Halwynd]

Closing ticket offices isn't 'modernisation' - it's cutting costs and making the travelling experience worse for many passengers. I read in one of the newspapers - either The Telegraph or The Guardian, I can't recall - that those staff proposed for removal from ticket offices will only have their jobs guaranteed until the end of next year? I'll bet I know what happens next...

And then the RDG say that only 12% of ticket sales are from ticket offices - I can't say that it isn't true, but experience of the railway over the years suggests that when cost cutting modernisation is mentioned, very serious scrutinity of the supporting facts and figures is required. Some members I'm sure will know that when the Beeching cuts were announced, justification for some station closures was made on the basis of footfall on just Sunday mornings.

Perhaps naivley, I have this dream that one day I'll switch on my computer and read a story about the railway that has a really positive impact for passengers.

 

[Silverlinky]

WMR don't run New Street, Euston or Piccadilly - those are run by Network Rail

I think the suggestion was that WMR would run the "ticket offices", not the stations...

The WMR/LNW ticket office at Euston closed a couple of years ago now. The Avanti document suggests that THE ticket office is currently open 0600-0000 and the proposal for THE ticket office is that it will be closed.

 

[A0]

Manchester Piccadilly loses its ticket office yet Glossop retains one. Funny old world - not something I would have predicted. Victoria and Oxford Road also retains them. No doubt Andy Burnham will have something to say - the 'Manchester Evening News' hasn't woken up yet.

I wonder if that's due to the configuration of the station ? Glossop's an old station building, it may not be easy / suitable to put a different arrangement in place whereas Piccadilly's much more easily reconfigured.

 

[MikeWM]

Cambridge North yesterday: built without ticket office. Large group struggling to use TVM, blocking access to other machines as staff member tried to help them. Everyone would have been better off with her serving them from behind a desk in the traditional way.

This sort of thing happens there all the time. And this was just a quiet Tuesday afternoon; it's much worse at busy times.

But the situation at Cambridge North is 'very effective' according to GA!

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/consult

It is worth noting that two existing Greater Anglia stations, Bury St Edmunds and Cambridge North, already operate successfully in a similar way to that being put forward in these proposals, so it can be seen how these new proposals would work very effectively.

Despite this, it isn't 'very effective' if you want to buy, let's say an Anglia Plus. As you can't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Avanti closing all their bookings office seems reasonable if the context is that WMR run New Street and Euston, Northern Rail Piccadilly etc.

That is not the context. They are all Avanti booking offices.

But the situation at Cambridge North is 'very effective' according to GA!

https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/consult




Despite this, it isn't 'very effective' if you want to buy, let's say an Anglia Plus. As you can't.

Northern's TVMs sell Rovers and Rangers, so no reason other TOCs can't.

 

[DanNCL]

From a look at the proposals from Northern and TPE, I've found potential legal compliance issues with the proposals for Hexham, Sunderland and Thirsk stations. In the case of Hexham and Thirsk this relates to the Equality Act, more specifically these stations have a staff worked barrow crossing for wheelchair access and the staffing hours at these stations are planned to be reduced. In the case of Sunderland the compliance relates to Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations)(England) Regulations 2009, the plans are for the station to only be staffed 0800-1500, yet as the station is underground it's required by law to be staffed whenever it's open.

 

[MikeWM]

Northern's TVMs sell Rovers and Rangers, so no reason other TOCs can't.

Indeed, and if they start doing so, that's good. But at the moment they don't, Anglia Plus is only available at a ticket office (or on the train, but that's not a lot of use at a barriered penalty fare station) - are the TVMs going to be reprogrammed before the ticket offices close?

 

[vikingdriver]

Let's hope these companies provide suitable clothing and shelter for those who'll now be loitering around outside on windswept freezing cold platforms for their shifts. Based on the poor quality stuff we get issued at the moment I can't see that happening! I think staff will leave in droves to be honest.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I wonder if that's due to the configuration of the station ? Glossop's an old station building, it may not be easy / suitable to put a different arrangement in place whereas Piccadilly's much more easily reconfigured.

Not really. These days at Glossop, it's one way in and the same way out. You pass the ticket window on your right on the way in, then it's through the ticket barriers (if in operation) and onto the solitary platform at the branch terminus. Can be busy at times, often it's not, but quite a simple arrangement.

 

[northwichcat]

On Northern's website

These ticket offices have been chosen based on location and volume of ticket sales.

Does this mean a Merseyside station selling 200 x £5 tickets would be chosen over a Lancashire station selling 100 x £10 tickets in the same period?

 

[kkong]

Indeed, and if they start doing so, that's good. But at the moment they don't, Anglia Plus is only available at a ticket office (or on the train, but that's not a lot of use at a barriered penalty fare station) - are the TVMs going to be reprogrammed before the ticket offices close?

LNER's proposal states that Rovers, Rangers, Excesses and Seat Reservations will NOT be available from their TVMs.

On Northern's website



Does this mean a Merseyside station selling 200 x £5 tickets would be chosen over a Lancashire station selling 100 x £10 tickets in the same period?

Volume can be interpreted a few ways.

One would be to treat it as simply how many tickets are sold.

Another would be to treat it as the value of tickets sold.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not really. These days at Glossop, it's one way in and the same way out. You pass the ticket window on your right on the way in, then it's through the ticket barriers (if in operation) and onto the solitary platform at the branch terminus. Can be busy at times, often it's not, but quite a simple arrangement.

Meanwhile, Manchester Piccadilly ticket office is closing.

 

[kkong]

Let's hope these companies provide suitable clothing and shelter for those who'll now be loitering around outside on windswept freezing cold platforms for their shifts. Based on the poor quality stuff we get issued at the moment I can't see that happening! I think staff will leave in droves to be honest.

Plenty of people in the UK work outside and in far more environmentally hostile conditions than on station concourses and platforms, so I don't think clothing is a valid blocker for these proposals.

 

[ainsworth74]

In the case of Sunderland the compliance relates to Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations)(England) Regulations 2009, the plans are for the station to only be staffed 0800-1500, yet as the station is underground it's required by law to be staffed whenever it's open.

I'm not sure you can read that into what's in the document. As by that logical Sunderland is currently non-compliant in it's opening hours.

 

[yorkie]

I recently travelled to/from Stourbridge Town, in both directions, on multiple occasions.

On the branch itself, there was a staffed ticket office at both Stourbridge stations, neither was well used. No ticket checking at either station. There were also two members of staff on the trains, both in the leading cab, no checking done on board.

Heading to/from the branch, again no ticket checks on the train and no checking at any of the stations I used (including arriving at Birmingham Snow Hill and departing from Snow Hill at popular times, including arriving around 10:30 on a Sat morning!). The ticket office was open on arrival at Snow Hill but it had no custom whatsoever.

All in all I made several journeys to/from Stourbridge Town and tickets were never checked at any point on any of my journeys; there were staff around but I can't help thinking they could be better deployed than is the case at present.

If it was up to me, I would close those ticket offices but have staff actually checking (as well as issuing) tickets; the vast majority of passengers are clearly choosing e-tickets these days and with no ticket checks made whatsoever, the focus should be on checking tickets, than having staff hidden away in offices with hardly any work to do.

I don't want to see job losses; on the contrary I'd like to see an increase in staffing, but in more visible/proactive roles. I've seen TOCS/networks both in this country and abroad that do this well, but other networks/TOCs that do a very bad job and here is an opportunity to change that.

 

[newtownmgr]

I see all the companies have turned commenting off on both twitter & Facebook.
Dft/RDG etc behind this. Maybe people should just send comments to them.