Future stock for XC?

[Chuggington21]

Has anyone heard any chat of XC acquiring new rolling stock?

I know the Voyagers are going for a refurbish but they will have an end of life date and I'd imagine the chat for new stock would need to commence years before they actually come into service

 

[JonathanH]

Has anyone heard any chat of XC acquiring new rolling stock?

They are getting 12 of the Voyagers which previously worked with Avanti.

XC Voyager Refurbishment

Genuine question as l don't get to use XC that often. To what extent is the current toilet provision driven by the length of journey and current depot set-ups? The current tiolet provision is driven by Virgin's original airline-wannabe intention of having three classes of travel, and...

www.railforums.co.uk

Anything else in the future is a matter of speculation for the foreseeable future, and there are many, many threads that discuss that in the relevant part of the forum.

 

[Harpo]

Tragically, I suspect there’s far too much life left in voyagers.

But, to be a bit more positive, that leaves lots of time to sort out the engine mountings or whatever makes them so awful for saloon noise.

 

[GoneSouth]

Tragically, I suspect there’s far too much life left in voyagers.

But, to be a bit more positive, that leaves lots of time to sort out the engine mountings or whatever makes them so awful for saloon noise.

Nothing tragic about it, I’d rather my bum was comfortably nestled into a Voyager seat than perched on a Hitachi metal bar posing as a standard class seat.

As for noise, I don’t think they’re too bad, and ride quality is still better than anything newer.

 

[swt_passenger]

Has anyone heard any chat of XC acquiring new rolling stock?

I know the Voyagers are going for a refurbish but they will have an end of life date and I'd imagine the chat for new stock would need to commence years before they actually come into service

The ‘chat’ about new stock can be found in a large number of existing and recent forum threads. There is nothing whatsoever on the horizon except for 12 more Voyagers from the WCML as already noted by @JonathanH, and I bet this thread will discover nothing new.

 

[Wyrleybart]

IMHO the significant issue is that XC voyagers have been worked very hard for the last 23-24 years with barely any respite. Many pf the components on them are obsolete and I have heard there are daily issues with electrical components. The units ideally need to be sent to a works somewhere (probably Litchurch Lane) gutted and reengineered. However, 25 years old is not a great place to be for UK based rolling stock. Looks what happened to the class 442 and the 321. Both were retractioned with new AC drives and other electricals, but how long did they last in service ?

XC desperately need the other nine ex AWC 221s but they are parked at either Central Rivers or Litchurch Lane. Maybe waiting for the extra Elizabeth line 345s to leave Litchurch Lane ?

 

[Tetragon213]

Nothing tragic about it, I’d rather my bum was comfortably nestled into a Voyager seat than perched on a Hitachi metal bar posing as a standard class seat.

As for noise, I don’t think they’re too bad, and ride quality is still better than anything newer.

Hear hear. The 22x's get a bad rap for their awful overcrowding, but that's the fault of the TOC, not the train itself. Having been lucky enough to get on a few late-night services with plenty of room, I've found them to be perfectly fine. Certainly, they're massively better than the 80x torture chambers.

IMHO the significant issue is that XC voyagers have been worked very hard for the last 23-24 years with barely any respite. Many pf the components on them are obsolete and I have heard there are daily issues with electrical components. The units ideally need to be sent to a works somewhere (probably Litchurch Lane) gutted and reengineered. However, 25 years old is not a great place to be for UK based rolling stock. Looks what happened to the class 442 and the 321. Both were retractioned with new AC drives and other electricals, but how long did they last in service ?

XC desperately need the other nine ex AWC 221s but they are parked at either Central Rivers or Litchurch Lane. Maybe waiting for the extra Elizabeth line 345s to leave Litchurch Lane ?

The HSTs are approaching or at 50 years old, and are still going strong. The 158s and 159s are at or approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the EMR 222s supposed to be going to XC as well?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Hear hear. The 22x's get a bad rap for their awful overcrowding, but that's the fault of the TOC, not the train itself. Having been lucky enough to get on a few late-night services with plenty of room, I've found them to be perfectly fine. Certainly, they're massively better than the 80x torture chambers.

The HSTs are approaching or at 50 years old, and are still going strong. The 158s and 159s are at or approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the EMR 222s supposed to be going to XC as well?

The 158s are coming up to 35 (not 25) years old.

 

[JonathanH]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the EMR 222s supposed to be going to XC as well?

No. That has only ever been forum speculation.

 

[fgwrich]

Nothing tragic about it, I’d rather my bum was comfortably nestled into a Voyager seat than perched on a Hitachi metal bar posing as a standard class seat.

As for noise, I don’t think they’re too bad, and ride quality is still better than anything newer.

221s I’ll admit I don’t find the ride quality too bad at all, but that hateful Flexx Eco bogie under the 220s is awful. You do seem to hear more track noise with them, and are worse when you have a set with a wheelflat. But the same largely applies to any item of stock with those underneath too.

 

[Bevan Price]

I expect that the Voyagers will probably last until about 2035 - 2040. But whether XC will last that long is questionable. Its future under GBR is yet to be determined.

 

[D6975]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the EMR 222s supposed to be going to XC as well?

Scotrail seem to be eyeing up those.

 

[physics34]

Personally I'd replace them with New bi-mode Hitachi's, then you'll have a fleet that can go and replace a bunch of 156s/158s somewhere...

Would the big windows make them good for the Scottish Highlands???!

 

[Wyrleybart]

221s I’ll admit I don’t find the ride quality too bad at all, but that hateful Flexx Eco bogie under the 220s is awful. You do seem to hear more track noise with them, and are worse when you have a set with a wheelflat. But the same largely applies to any item of stock with those underneath too.

I agree. I rode in two consecutively numbered 221s a couple of weeks ago. 221138 and 221139. I travelled in the std class going north and the coach I was in rode very well indeed and I was pleasantly surprised. Coming back in the First class it was a different story, although to be fair the ride was pretty much as an average 221. However, every time the engine was running above idle there was a pulsing racket coming from above my head.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2025 ==

Hear hear. The 22x's get a bad rap for their awful overcrowding, but that's the fault of the TOC, not the train itself. Having been lucky enough to get on a few late-night services with plenty of room, I've found them to be perfectly fine. Certainly, they're massively better than the 80x torture chambers.

The HSTs are approaching or at 50 years old, and are still going strong. The 158s and 159s are at or approaching 25 years old, and are still going strong.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the EMR 222s supposed to be going to XC as well?

There is a subtle difference "Tetragon213". HSTs and 158s don't TMS, although the XC HSTs did have sliding door issues and always had driver-guard buzzer issues and were mostly on flags and whistles in my experience.

In my view the HST was the UK's best ever intercity passenger train and the Mk3 glide was legendary. Unfortunately the DfT prevaricated so many times that HST2 turned out to be Hitachi rather than 2nd generation HSTs to replace the work out steel fabric of the Mk3 trailers. Did you ever look at the patchwork on the roofs of the trailers.?

Computers belong on office desks and definitely not in the cabs of trains - particularly the trains which run on UK metals.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Its future under GBR is yet to be determined.

GBR itself is yet to be determined...