G M Wayfarer Concessionary Fare

[ashworth]

I'm in Manchester for a few days in February and was looking at the cheapest options for travelling around the area by train, tram and bus whilst there. I'm only going to be there for 5 days maximum so I will be looking at Day tickets rather than a 7 day ticket.

I was originally looking at the System One Day tickets and although not too badly priced at £8.70 for a day, they do have the inconvenience of not being valid on trains during the evening peak. I then noticed that a G M Wayfarer Concessionary Ticket was only £6 and in addition to covering a much wider area was valid on trains during the evening peak.

What are the rules for getting one of these tickets at the concessionary price? On some websites it states that you need to be over 60 and proof of age may be needed but in one place it actually mentions concessionary pass holders. I am retired, but on a work pension, but will not get my state pension and concessionary bus pass (if they are still going) for another 6 years. I do have a Senior Railcard. Is the concessionary Wayfarer valid for anyone over 60 or must you be a concessionary pass holder?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Anyone over 60.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Anyone over 60
(is there an echo in here?)
- proof may be required - never, though, in my experience.

I think mention of concessionary passholders refers to non-age-related concessions who are also eligible - with a pass.

 

[ashworth]

Thanks, that's great news.
Another benefit, in addition to the Senior Railcard of recently reaching 60! It's very frustrating each time I get on my local bus realising that I'm often the only person from the village paying!

 

[Francis]

Not such excellent value as the Concessionary Wayfarer, but there are also the Cheshire Day Ranger and Lancashire Day Ranger, if you wish to branch out further. With a Railcard they are both £15.20 for the day. Details on the National Rail Enquiries website

 

[gray1404]

Its very frustrating that for the GM Wayfarer they only offer it to 60+ and not also disabled persons.

 

[exile]

Anyone over 60
(is there an echo in here?)
- proof may be required - never, though, in my experience.

I think mention of concessionary passholders refers to non-age-related concessions who are also eligible - with a pass.

In fact, I'm always offered one, despite being 57.

 

[ashworth]

Not such excellent value as the Concessionary Wayfarer, but there are also the Cheshire Day Ranger and Lancashire Day Ranger, if you wish to branch out further. With a Railcard they are both £15.20 for the day. Details on the National Rail Enquiries website

Thanks for those suggestions but for these few days I'm intending staying reasonably close to Manchester. I'm staying 5 nights based at Salford Quays and will mainly be using buses and trams, but when the Concessionary Wayfarer is only £6, it works out slightly cheaper than the £6.70 bus and tram ticket, and also gives the option of rail travel if needed.

I've done many weeks over the past 10 years or so exploring the North West, staying at friends near Blackpool and using a 7 Day North West Rover, but during those visits have only done brief day visits to Manchester itself. I want to spend a few days exploring the museums etc without being tempted to travel much further afield.

 

[Deerfold]

Its very frustrating that for the GM Wayfarer they only offer it to 60+ and not also disabled persons.

They don't?

http://tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/Wayfarer-Terms-and-Conditions.aspx

A Concession Wayfarer ticket can only be used by children age 5 to 15 (inclusive) and holders of English National Concessionary Travel Passes for people aged over 60 and disabled people. Proof of age or eligibility may be required for children.

(My emphasis).

Of course this seems to disagree with over 60s using it if they haven't got an ENCT pass.

 

[gray1404]

I wonder if this is a recent change in policy. In which case is really good news.

 

[ashworth]

Of course this seems to disagree with over 60s using it if they haven't got an ENCT pass.

This is why I asked my original question at the beginning of this thread.

 

[supervalkoinen]

I notice the GM Wayfarer has disappeared from the National Rail 'Rovers and Rangers' main menu, though it can be found using the 'search' facility.

 

[Harpers Tate]

They don't?

http://tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/Wayfarer-Terms-and-Conditions.aspx

Of course this seems to disagree with over 60s using it if they haven't got an ENCT pass.

Contradicts this other page
http://tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx
which is actually linked to, from the page you quote.

I wonder which is correct.

 

[sheff1]

Contradicts this other page
http://tfgm.com/journey_planning/Tickets/Pages/tickets_wayfarer.aspx
which is actually linked to, from the page you quote.

I wonder which is correct.

They are definitely available to anyone over 60.

The reference in the other link to ENCT passes is incorrect as they are no longer issued to people when they become 60 and have not been for some years.

 

[Deerfold]

They are definitely available to anyone over 60.

The reference in the other link to ENCT passes is incorrect as they are no longer issued to people when they become 60 and have not been for some years.

Which leaves us unsure whether they will be issued to someone who has a pass but is not over 60.

 

[ashworth]

I had no problems obtaining Concessionary Greater Manchester Wayfarers at Manchester Piccadilly. I got them for 3 consecutive days with no questions asked and no need to show any proof of age. However, using them on buses was a completely different matter!

Over the 3 days I had real problems using this ticket on buses with numerous drivers never having seen one before, insisting that they were rail only and not valid.

A Rossendale driver insisted that it was a rail ranger and not valid on buses. Even after I tried to show him the details on my phone he still insisted that at only £6 it was less than the bus and tram ticket and so couldn't be valid. He didn't seem to understand that it was a concessionary ticket and said that I should therefore have a bus pass! He reluctantly let me travel just for that one time but still insisted it wasn't valid.

A First Bus driver in the Rochdale area completely refused to let me travel and I ended up having to walk nearly a mile to the nearest tram stop. I politely tried to show him the details on my phone and even read the relevant sections out to him and he then became quite rude and almost abusive insisting he was right, it was a rail only ticket and he was not going to let me travel.

After a couple more similar incidents where I was refused travel on First Buses, I called in at the Piccadilly Gardens Tfgm Travel Centre, showed them my ticket and explained. They were very apologetic, said that my ticket was perfectly valid but it was an unusual version of the ticket that most drivers would rarely see. They reported my incident of the rude driver to First and First responded by saying that they will send out a general email concerning this ticket.

Whist in the Travel Centre I was given a Wayfarer Leaflet which I was told to show to any driver the following day who questioned the validity of my ticket. I still had problems on Stagecoach Buses in Salford Quays, when even after looking at the leaflet, he then only reluctantly let me travel insisting the ticket I had was a rail only version.

For may final day I was advised by the Travel Centre to purchase a paper version from them which would actually state valid on trains, trams and buses on the ticket. I didn't have any big problems using this ticket but a couple of drivers looked very puzzled and took some time reading the ticket before finally accepting it.

I've sent an email to Tfgm Customer Services, explaining what happened and I now await a reply.

 

[Harpers Tate]

You can get similar problems "trying" to use a valid ticket sold on a bus, on a train. And no amount of printed or electronic evidence will sway some employees. Like the EMT guard who was wholly insistent that a Wayfarer's validity ends (on the Hope Valley Route) at Hazel Grove, despite my showing him a map indicating otherwise.

 

[Ianno87]

I had extensive use of Wayfarers when I was much younger, and *never* had a problem with their acceptance.

What has changed is the end of production of them as bespoke scratch-off cards, instead issued on normal ticket stock these days - hence the lack of recognition of them (given the typical 'intensive' level of training given to GM bus drivers and RPIs)

 

[Merseysider]

Whilst that's unfortunate, I'm not surprised you had problems with the bus drivers. Anything not actually issued on a bus seems to strain their intelligence, especially if it's "too cheap"

If you fancy some free travel, there's a chance Stagecoach/First customer relations will bite if you send off a quick email, but they'll ideally want details of the route, time etc.

Now try using a Stalybridge-issued railcard-discounted PlusBus in Stockport

 

[HowMuch?]

There would be less confusion on buses if the version bought at a rail station did not say "Rail Ranger" on it. It would be a simple change to make.

 

[gnolife]

There would be less confusion on buses if the version bought at a rail station did not say "Rail Ranger" on it. It would be a simple change to make.

There would also be a lot less confusion if they didn't print with GM on it - I've been refused travel by several different companies outside Greater Manchester which are listed as participating operators (examples of troublesome ones in my experience are First Halifax, Transdev and Warrington Borough Transport, especially when using them on routes that avoid Greater Manchester)

There's also issues when using it on the following routes run by High Peak due to being excluded from the similarly named Derbyshire Wayfarer;
61 Buxton - Glossop
69 Hayfield - Chapel-en-le-Frith
185/186 Fairfield - Harpur Hill
199 Buxton - Manchester Airport
Transpeak Manchester Central - Matlock Bath

 

[sheff1]

There would be less confusion on buses if the version bought at a rail station did not say "Rail Ranger" on it. It would be a simple change to make.

Indeed. The "Rail Ranger" text is the most prominent thing on the ticket.

If there needs to be anything in that area (and I am not convinced there is) there is plenty of room to print "Bus/Tram/Rail Ranger".

 

[northwichcat]

Indeed. The "Rail Ranger" text is the most prominent thing on the ticket.

If there needs to be anything in that area (and I am not convinced there is) there is plenty of room to print "Bus/Tram/Rail Ranger".

And maybe add 'GM and beyond'

 

[northwichcat]

There would also be a lot less confusion if they didn't print with GM on it - I've been refused travel by several different companies outside Greater Manchester which are listed as participating operators (examples of troublesome ones in my experience are First Halifax, Transdev and Warrington Borough Transport, especially when using them on routes that avoid Greater Manchester)

There's also issues when using it on the following routes run by High Peak due to being excluded from the similarly named Derbyshire Wayfarer;
61 Buxton - Glossop
69 Hayfield - Chapel-en-le-Frith
185/186 Fairfield - Harpur Hill
199 Buxton - Manchester Airport
Transpeak Manchester Central - Matlock Bath

Has anyone ever tried using it on the 289 bus? That would be an interesting one as the new operator says they participate in the Wayfarer scheme and the three main towns served by the bus (Altrincham, Knutsford and Northwich) are all within the validity area but part of the route between Northwich and Knutsford is shown as outside the validity area.

 

[northwichcat]

Now try using a Stalybridge-issued railcard-discounted PlusBus in Stockport

I've found with Altrincham PlusBus it's more likely to be questioned or the ticket closely scrutinised by the driver before accepting it on Arriva buses in Altrincham than on buses in Manchester city centre.

If you want a very confused driver be in possession of a ticket valid on Metrolink issued on National Rail stock when Metrolink services get suspended and they tell passengers tickets will be accepted on local bus services!

 

[ashworth]

Indeed. The "Rail Ranger" text is the most prominent thing on the ticket.

If there needs to be anything in that area (and I am not convinced there is) there is plenty of room to print "Bus/Tram/Rail Ranger".

The fact that words 'Rail Ranger' were printer so prominently on the ticket was the major problem. Printing bus, tram and train would also help.
I think the other major problem was the price of £6, of the Concessionary Wayfarer, which put it below the price of the widely used GM bus and tram ticket costing £6.70. Bus drivers didn't understand that it was a Concessionary Wayfarer and wouldn't accept that a ticket at that low price would be valid on anything other than trains.

 

[sheff1]

The fact that words 'Rail Ranger' were printer so prominently on the ticket was the major problem. Printing bus, tram and train would also help.
I think the other major problem was the price of £6, of the Concessionary Wayfarer, which put it below the price of the widely used GM bus and tram ticket costing £6.70. Bus drivers didn't understand that it was a Concessionary Wayfarer and wouldn't accept that a ticket at that low price would be valid on anything other than trains.

When boarding a bus, I tend to say "Wayfarer" as I show the ticket. Holding the ticket in a certain way () maybe helps as well, as I have never been challenged.

 

[Statto]

West Yorkshire have different coloured ticket stock for there Day Rovers, as do West Midlands, TFGM should do the same for Wayfarers issued from stations to avoid confusion with standard rail tickets.


On a side note, i caught the 109 Macclesfield to Leek using a GM Wayfarer a few weeks ago only to be told by the driver they don't accept GM Wayfarers, yet the GM Wayfarer website says they are valid on that route & company.

 

[ashworth]

On a side note, i caught the 109 Macclesfield to Leek using a GM Wayfarer a few weeks ago only to be told by the driver they don't accept GM Wayfarers, yet the GM Wayfarer website says they are valid on that route & company.

As I found out when trying to board a Number 17 in Rochdale operated by First, if the driver says it's not valid, and refuses to accept it, there's very little as a passenger that you can do at that point except pay an additional fare, or as I did give up the argument and get off. It's very frustrating, and somewhat embarrassing being made to look like a fare dodger in front of other passengers, when you have paid for a ticket which you know is valid.

 

[Harpers Tate]

The thing to do in such circumstances is always either
- to pay the fare and keep the ticket
- not travel but record details of route, time, place and bus fleet number
and the always write and complain to the operator.

Only by so doing will they become aware of an issue and have an opportunity to take steps. If it's specific to a few drivers (which is why you need the data) then they can be trained; if its generic then the company needs to do something bigger. But they need to be told, with specifics, that their staff are getting it wrong.