Gatwick to Salisbury

[Envoy]

Looking at going from Gatwick to Salisbury - pay on the day one way single off peak. It looks like the cheapest way of doing is:- GTW >SOU =£16.50. SOU > SAL = £9.90 TOTAL = £26.40.

However, that leaves only 1 minute to change trains at SOU or wait another 30 minutes or so. By changing at Fareham, it is possible to have a reasonable connection with the GWR service going to Cardiff than the 1 minute at SOU. Could somebody buy the above tickets and still change at Fareham rather than SOU? Would it not be better to change at SOU as that offers more trains going to Salisbury than Fareham? If I were to buy GTW > Fareham - £16.50 and Fareham to SAL = £16.20 it would total £33 so it is £6.60 more expensive.

 

[yorkie]

You are asking if a Gatwick Airport to Southampton Central Off-Peak Day Single (CDS) is valid for changing trains at an intermediate station, namely Fareham?

The answer is you can change trains at any station en route. You can even exit any of the stations if you wish.

 

[swt_passenger]

Connection time between these services at Southampton for most of the day is usually 5 or 6 mins. I think 1 min is very much an exception to the usual pattern.

Headways between Fareham and St Denys are around 5 mins anyway, so the GWR service cannot normally catch up with the Southern running ahead of it.

 

[Kite159]

Also changing at Fareham should give a same platform interchange rather than having to change platforms at Southampton.

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks for your swift responses. So it looks like I will go with splitting the tickets at SOU but change at Fareham.

 

[yorkie]

You're welcome.

Out of interest do you calculate this yourself manually?

There are websites that will do all of this for you!

 

[Alfonso]

Gatwick to Salisbury single via Barnham £27ish, not much difference between anytime and off peak.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You're welcome.

Out of interest do you calculate this yourself manually?

There are websites that will do all of this for you!

In always prefer to check things myself too. There is too much reliance in computers, and nothing to indicate if a computer is wrong

 

[Surreytraveller]

Connection time between these services at Southampton for most of the day is usually 5 or 6 mins. I think 1 min is very much an exception to the usual pattern.

Headways between Fareham and St Denys are around 5 mins anyway, so the GWR service cannot normally catch up with the Southern running ahead of it.

Unless its one of the Southern ones which go via Eastleigh

 

[swt_passenger]

Unless its one of the Southern ones which go via Eastleigh

Sure, but obviously the vast majority don’t, and none on weekdays in the “from Gatwick” direction. The OP must have been unlucky with the time he planned his journey.

 

[kieron]

Would it not be better to change at SOU as that offers more trains going to Salisbury than Fareham?

Personally, I'd get on the first train that goes via Horsham and check my connections on board. If there are delays on the day, the best place to change trains could be anywhere between Barnham and Southampton.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Personally, I'd get on the first train that goes via Horsham and check my connections on board. If there are delays on the day, the best place to change trains could be anywhere between Barnham and Southampton.

Even get a Portsmouth train and change at Fratton

 

[Envoy]

Many thanks for your further responses. I am aware of the split ticket sites but sometimes they get it wrong. The fare system can be most irrational at times and I am sure that many people are scared off rail travel because of all the complex rules and regulations and tales of massive fares being charged for mistakes that are made.

 

[JonathanH]

The fare system can be most irrational at times and I am sure that many people are scared off rail travel because of all the complex rules and regulations and tales of massive fares being charged for mistakes that are made.

I don't think that your proposed journey from Gatwick to Salisbury is an example of irrational fares. Southern were able to price great value fares along the Sussex coast to encourage long distance use of these trains but there is a limit of how far off their core route they can set these. Gatwick to Salisbury via the South coast isn't the obvious way to make this journey and clearly SWR (and SWT before them) have revenue to protect on the route from London / Clapham Junction so it is hardly surprising that there isn't a through via Barnham fare.

It would not be surprising if a future review / alignment of fares of the sort that makes fares 'more rational' removes the cheap fares along the South Coast.

 

[OwlMan]

I don't think that your proposed journey from Gatwick to Salisbury is an example of irrational fares. Southern were able to price great value fares along the Sussex coast to encourage long distance use of these trains but there is a limit of how far off their core route they can set these. Gatwick to Salisbury via the South coast isn't the obvious way to make this journey and clearly SWR (and SWT before them) have revenue to protect on the route from London / Clapham Junction so it is hardly surprising that there isn't a through via Barnham fare.

It would not be surprising if a future review / alignment of fares of the sort that makes fares 'more rational' removes the cheap fares along the South Coast.

There are through Gatwick - Salisbury via Barnham fares.

Flow Origin Q435
Cluster 5416 GATWICK AIRPORT
Flow Destination Q462
Cluster 5663 SALISBURY
Route 00000 ✠ANY PERMITTED
Cross-London YES
Fare Setter SWT SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY
FIRST CLASS
FOR ANYTIME 1R ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £197.20 CHILD: £98.60
FDR ANYTIME DAY 1R 1ST RETURN ADULT: £117.10 CHILD: £58.55
FRX OFF-PEAK DAY 1R SB ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £99.10 CHILD: £49.55
FDS ANYTIME DAY 1S ◊ 1ST SINGLE ADULT: £98.60 CHILD: £49.30
STANDARD CLASS
SOR ANYTIME R ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £119.60 CHILD: £59.80
SDR ANYTIME DAY R STD RETURN ADULT: £71.00 CHILD: £35.50
SVR OFF-PEAK R UT ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £69.40 CHILD: £34.70
CDR OFF-PEAK DAY R UT ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £60.10 CHILD: £30.05
SDS ANYTIME DAY S ◊ STD SINGLE ADULT: £59.80 CHILD: £29.90
Route 00602 CLAPHM J NOT LDN
Cross-London NO
Fare Setter SWT SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY
FIRST CLASS
7DF SEVEN DAY 1ST ◊ 1ST SEASON ADULT: £241.60 CHILD: £120.80
FOR ANYTIME 1R ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £138.80 CHILD: £69.40
FDR ANYTIME DAY 1R 1ST RETURN ADULT: £70.20 CHILD: £35.10
FRX OFF-PEAK DAY 1R SB 1ST RETURN ADULT: £69.90 CHILD: £34.95
FDS ANYTIME DAY 1S ◊ 1ST SINGLE ADULT: £69.40 CHILD: £34.70
STANDARD CLASS
7DS SEVEN DAY STD ◊ STD SEASON ADULT: £146.40 CHILD: £73.20
SOR ANYTIME R ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £84.20 CHILD: £42.10
SVR OFF-PEAK R UT ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £50.90 CHILD: £25.45
SDR ANYTIME DAY R STD RETURN ADULT: £42.60 CHILD: £21.30
CDR OFF-PEAK DAY R UT STD RETURN ADULT: £42.40 CHILD: £21.20
SDS ANYTIME DAY S ◊ STD SINGLE ADULT: £42.10 CHILD: £21.05
Route 00947 VIA BARNHAM
Cross-London NO
Fare Setter NSC SOUTHERN
FIRST CLASS
7DF SEVEN DAY 1ST ◊ 1ST SEASON ADULT: £138.50 CHILD: £69.25
FSR OFF-PEAK 1R 4B ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £49.10 CHILD: £24.55
FDR ANYTIME DAY 1R ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £45.30 CHILD: £22.65
FCR OFF-PEAK DAY 1R B3 ◊ 1ST RETURN ADULT: £41.00 CHILD: £20.50
FDS ANYTIME DAY 1S ◊ 1ST SINGLE ADULT: £41.70 CHILD: £20.85
STANDARD CLASS
7DS SEVEN DAY STD ◊ STD SEASON ADULT: £92.30 CHILD: £46.15
SVR OFF-PEAK R 4B ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £32.70 CHILD: £16.35
SDR ANYTIME DAY R ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £30.20 CHILD: £15.10
CDR OFF-PEAK DAY R B3 ◊ STD RETURN ADULT: £27.30 CHILD: £13.65
SDS ANYTIME DAY S ◊ STD SINGLE ADULT: £27.80 CHILD: £13.90
CDS OFF-PEAK DAY S B3 ◊ STD SINGLE ADULT: £27.20 CHILD: £13.60

 

[Starmill]

Southern were able to price great value fares along the Sussex coast to encourage long distance use of these trains but there is a limit of how far off their core route they can set these.

There is a limit eventually, but it is very broad.

Gatwick to Salisbury via the South coast isn't the obvious way to make this journey

Why isn't it? Throughout the day there are times where travel via Barnham (though not neccesarily changing at Barnham itself) is the fastest way from Gatwick Airport to Salisbury

have revenue to protect on the route from London / Clapham Junction

This is unaffected by people who do not travel on the route between London or Clapham Junction and Salisbury though. The company cannot protect revenue by blocking competing operators from setting their own fares. That's not how liberal free-market economies such as the UK's work.

it is hardly surprising that there isn't a through via Barnham fare

There is a through fare via Barnham.

 

[Starmill]

It would not be surprising if a future review / alignment of fares of the sort that makes fares 'more rational' removes the cheap fares along the South Coast.

It's possible that prices will go up of course. But this would reduce revenue for GTR and the prices to travel via Clapham Junction are as much as double, so there would not neccesarily be any increase for SWR. Furthermore, GTR will gain, if only marginally, from the sale of Any Permitted tickets from Gatwick Airport to Salisbury as the use of their services via Barnham is often not overtaken.

 

[JB_B]

There is a limit eventually, but it is very broad.

That's right - the cheap route:Barnham fares from Gatwick start with destinations Hilsea/Cosham and extend as far as Weymouth, Salisbury and Winchester.

I think there are effectivley three price tiers : the cheapest will get you as far as Beaulieu Road / Chandlers Ford (but not Romsey) / Portsmouth Harbour and then the middle tier takes you as far as Winchester / Dean (Wilts) / Lymington / Branksome.

 

[Envoy]

I don't think that your proposed journey from Gatwick to Salisbury is an example of irrational fares. Southern were able to price great value fares along the Sussex coast to encourage long distance use of these trains but there is a limit of how far off their core route they can set these. Gatwick to Salisbury via the South coast isn't the obvious way to make this journey and clearly SWR (and SWT before them) have revenue to protect on the route from London / Clapham Junction so it is hardly surprising that there isn't a through via Barnham fare.

It would not be surprising if a future review / alignment of fares of the sort that makes fares 'more rational' removes the cheap fares along the South Coast.

I have just done another check and a turn up and pay on the day one way from GTW > SAL = £27.20 going via the south coast. So, now need to go through all this split ticket nonsense! The fare going via Clapham Junction is £42.10 one way off peak single. So, despite the south coast route taking around 20 minutes longer, it really is a no-brainer and that is the way to go. So, clearly the fare system is irrational in showing such a difference in price linking two places at the same time.

Many thanks for all the contributors to my post.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I have just done another check and a turn up and pay on the day one way from GTW > SAL = £27.20 going via the south coast. So, now need to go through all this split ticket nonsense! The fare going via Clapham Junction is £42.10 one way off peak single. So, despite the south coast route taking around 20 minutes longer, it really is a no-brainer and that is the way to go. So, clearly the fare system is irrational in showing such a difference in price linking two places at the same time.

Many thanks for all the contributors to my post.

The issue is that if the fare via Clapham Junction were more reasonable by comparison, then people who wanted to travel from Clapham Junction to Salisbury would just pay that fare instead - so SWR would suffer a revenue loss. It wouldn't be acceptable to introduce a break of journey restriction on an ordinary fare like that.

 

[JB_B]

I have just done another check and a turn up and pay on the day one way from GTW > SAL = £27.20 going via the south coast. So, now need to go through all this split ticket nonsense! ...

This is the fare mentioned by Alfonso in post #7 and is also shown in Owlman's post #15.

I must admit I'd assumed that - since you started by discussing split tickets - you'd checked the through fare and the £0.80 saving was important to you (it might be to some.)

 

[Starmill]

So, clearly the fare system is irrational in showing such a difference in price linking two places at the same time.

What is irrational about it? A higher fare is charged for travel via Clapham Junction. Sometimes it's quicker to go that way. It's unlikely to be a great deal quicker, but if that time matters to someone they've the option to pay for it. They also have the option to pay the more reasonable price and go a completely sensible way (despite JonathanH thinking that shouldn't be the case). Seems entirely rational to me.

 

[Envoy]

The issue is that if the fare via Clapham Junction were more reasonable by comparison, then people who wanted to travel from Clapham Junction to Salisbury would just pay that fare instead - so SWR would suffer a revenue loss. It wouldn't be acceptable to introduce a break of journey restriction on an ordinary fare like that.

I think that the £38.80 one way pay on the day fare from Clapham Junction to Salisbury is a rip-off considering the distance travelled.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I think that the £38.80 one way pay on the day fare from Clapham Junction to Salisbury is a rip-off considering the distance travelled.

It isn't exactly a good value fare as they go, no, but a clockface service to and from London through the day, with half-hourly from London itself, is certainly nothing to be sniffed at - it's certainly a fair amount more than a great deal of other places of Salisbury's size can boast.

I think places such as Wellingborough or Stowmarket get a similar sort of "raw" deal, really.

 

[Envoy]

Yes, and South Western Railway are certainly out to screw people going to Salisbury. By going on the national rail website and putting in for WATerloo > Salisbury on the 9.20am train this morning, I get a price of £41.90. However, if I put in for WAT > Bath (selecting direct trains only and VIA SAL) I get a price of only £35.40 on THE SAME TRAIN. So, clearly anybody who knew this should buy the ticket as if going to Bath and just bugger off at Salisbury. (By just putting in WAT > BTH the system fails to tell people about the cheaper option and just directs customers to use the tube to PAD and the much dearer GWR trains).

 

[NSB2017]

Yes, and South Western Railway are certainly out to screw people going to Salisbury. By going on the national rail website and putting in for WATerloo > Salisbury on the 9.20am train this morning, I get a price of £41.90. However, if I put in for WAT > Bath (selecting direct trains only and VIA SAL) I get a price of only £35.40 on THE SAME TRAIN. So, clearly anybody who knew this should buy the ticket as if going to Bath and just bugger off at Salisbury. (By just putting in WAT > BTH the system fails to tell people about the cheaper option and just directs customers to use the tube to PAD and the much dearer GWR trains).

Is break of journey allowed on WAT - BAT VIA SAL?

 

[alistairlees]

Is break of journey allowed on WAT - BAT VIA SAL?

There are no fares from Waterloo (WAT) to Battle (BAT) via Salisbury (SAL).

I assume you mean Bath (BTH)?

The answer to your question is: "it depends on the ticket type". Advance tickets = no break of journey; almost all walk up (Off-Peak and Anytime) = break of journey. It's not clear what Envoy is quoting; he might not be comparing like with like.

 

[NSB2017]

There are no fares from Waterloo (WAT) to Battle (BAT) via Salisbury (SAL).

I assume you mean Bath (BTH)?

The answer to your question is: "it depends on the ticket type". Advance tickets = no break of journey; almost all walk up (Off-Peak and Anytime) = break of journey. It's not clear what Envoy is quoting; he might not be comparing like with like.

Sorry, still asleep.

I’d assumed reference to a specific train on an online booking would mean it was an advance fare, so no break of journey, and not not comparing like for like.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Is break of journey allowed on WAT - BAT VIA SAL?

Yes, just like most other fares. The reason this works is that the fare in question is a Super Off-Peak Single set by GWR. This has more generous restrictions out of Waterloo than SWR set fares do, so this kind of approach is likely to work for a number of other similar situations where a GWR-set fare is valid on SWR but is less expensive.