• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

GBRf Agrees Deal for Five New Class 66 Locos

Status
Not open for further replies.

FrodshamJnct

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2019
Messages
3,493
Location
Cheshire
From Railcam UK:
GBRf is pleased to announce an agreement to bring an additional five Class 66 locomotives from Germany in cooperation with Beacon Rail Leasing.

The first two, classified as 29004/29005 have been delivered to EMD Doncaster ready for conversion to GBRf’s specification and UK railway standards. The remaining three locomotives will be delivered throughout 2021.

The first two locomotives are low-geared heavy haul 60mph locos which will benefit GBRf’s heavy-haul capability, while the remaining three are 75mph locomotives.

The locos will be delivered into GBRf service commencing early April 2021 with the programme of conversions being undertaken by EMD at their Doncaster and Longport facilities, this will include the fitting of air conditioning, sound proofing, cab improvements, and new cab double glazing. In addition, the locos will be fitted with the most up to date GSMR and TPWS safety systems and be painted in GBRf livery. Once in service they will become GBRf 66 793-797 locos.”


Full article here.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,205
They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?
 

Bob Price

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2019
Messages
1,044
120 in France and 40 in Egypt. :D
Check the Wikipedia page and it lists the operators. 8 in Tanzania!
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,396
Location
Fenny Stratford
They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?


Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?
 

Kingspanner

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2019
Messages
325
Location
Dinsdale
Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,614
Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?
Exactly. And I can see more 66s coming in from abroad as other countries buy new locos and we buy seconhand.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,402
Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?
Exactly. The emissions standards are Europe-wide and cover delivery into the that area. Any suggestion of circumventing the rules is totally inappropriate.
 

ExRes

Established Member
Joined
16 Dec 2012
Messages
5,908
Location
Back in Sussex
They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?

I really don't think they would be going down this path if there was an acceptable alternative, it's this way or no increase in locos
 

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
2,205
Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?
I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,436
I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.
All those strategies were permitted when the emission rules were being designed so not cheeky at all - it was expected.
EMD bought the engines, shipped them to the UK so they were in Europe pre cut off date and then back to the States because EMD had huge order backlog at the time so it was that or nothing.
Low emission locos aren't as clean as you would think because the regulatory drive cycle changed for EuroIIIB/V so the reduction in emission in real life is far smaller than the reduction in the regulatory standard limits - the goal posts have been moved to another pitch.

There isn't a UK sized loco available from anyone currently and it is cleaner than road transport overall.
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,396
Location
Fenny Stratford
I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.


GBRF are buying a second hand locomotive that meets all of the rules . Nothing wrong or cheeky with that. BTW was I evading emissions regulations when I bought a second hand car recently? Was I being cheeky?

They also didn't buy engines before they could afford the rest of the loco or anything of the sort. This is a preposterous suggestion.
 

Bob Price

Member
Joined
8 Aug 2019
Messages
1,044
I do agree there needs to be a new low emission replacement for the 66's but think it is a few years off yet. Theres a lot of life left in them yet.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,402
GBRF are buying a second hand locomotive that meets all of the rules . Nothing wrong or cheeky with that. BTW was I evading emissions regulations when I bought a second hand car recently? Was I being cheeky?

They also didn't buy engines before they could afford the rest of the loco or anything of the sort. This is a preposterous suggestion.
They’re not even buying them. The owner is just leasing them to someone else, it just happens the company is in a different country. No different to leasing them to a new operator in Netherlands when they previously worked in Germany.
 

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,425
Location
nowhere
I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

It's cheeky, sure, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Development of a new compliant* loco is ludicrously expensive - if you wanted to develop one you'd be looking at a decent sized fleet to justify it, meaning either poor utilisation or scrapping/mothballing existing locos. It also affects the business cases (in a limited way) for new electric locos as/when the network becomes electrified enough. I'd rather any new locos don't have diesel engines (as main traction at least), and until we can do that we make do with what already exists

Also worth bearing in mind that these locos will have been replaced by newer locos in Germany, it's effectively a cascade just on a European scale. As also pointed out, it's better these additional 66s than 100s (if not more) of new trucks.

*note that a newly compliant loco wouldn't be more fuel efficient necessarily, merely lower levels of NOx/Soot etc. If anything they're typically slightly less fuel efficient as a result of all the exhaust scrubbing equipment
 

DarloRich

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Oct 2010
Messages
29,396
Location
Fenny Stratford
They’re not even buying them. The owner is just leasing them to someone else, it just happens the company is in a different country. No different to leasing them to a new operator in Netherlands when they previously worked in Germany.


thanks for the clarification - i hadn't joined the dots even with the clue: Beacon Rail Leasing!
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,402
It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.
I don't think it is correct to call it cheeky. It's an owner re-leasing an asset that happens to be required in a different country. No different from, say, an aircraft leasing company re-leasing a 10-year-old A320 to an other operator in a different country.
 

rebmcr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
3,854
Location
St Neots
I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.
If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.
 

hst43102

Member
Joined
28 May 2019
Messages
956
Location
Tyneside
If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.
Very few 37s are still in use as freight locos. The only examples left in regular use are on stock moves and test trains, both of which would require 66's to have significant modifications.
 

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
Very few 37s are still in use as freight locos. The only examples left in regular use are on stock moves and test trains, both of which would require 66's to have significant modifications.

And Colas have a couple of HST power cars to evaluate on the test trains.

Easy to see why GBRF are wanting 66s, given that they are the same as a large part of their existing fleet. Plus they are having the 56/69 rebuilds done also using many of the same components (including engines). Incidentally, are those new engines or second-hand ones? I am aware that the emissions standards are lower for re-engineering projects than for new-build locos.
 

Richard Scott

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
3,706
If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.
Be interesting to see what the emissions from some of the older locos actually are. Remember an article years ago comparing two German classes, one from former West and one from former East and latter had better NOx emissions to everyone's surprise. Not sure the EE engines would be as bad as you think?
 

Alanko

Member
Joined
2 May 2019
Messages
641
Location
Somewhere between Waverley and Queen Street.
Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?

The fact that 37s (and 20s still?) can get to corners of the network no 66/67/68 dare tread suggests that the UK needs a smaller gauged loco that isn't ~50 years old?
 

DB

Guest
Joined
18 Nov 2009
Messages
5,036
The fact that 37s (and 20s still?) can get to corners of the network no 66/67/68 dare tread suggests that the UK needs a smaller gauged loco that isn't ~50 years old?

How many lines actually are there where a 66/67/68 cannot go? Can't be many now.

Let's remember that a 37 is quite a bit heavier than a 67 or 68, although lower axle loading as it has more wheels.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
5,631
Location
Gateway to the South West
How many lines actually are there where a 66/67/68 cannot go?
For a start, the Thameslink tunnels, Finsbury Park-Moorgate and the Mersey loop, I understand (have the rules changed?). It's notable that all those are tunnelled areas, though 31s, 73s and 20s are permitted through Thameslink so it's not (just) an exhaust thing.
 

talltim

Established Member
Joined
17 Jan 2010
Messages
2,454
The sad bit of it is, I bet many of the 66s that have moved to the UK have been replaced by electric locos. That’s not the FOC’s fault.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top