GBRf Agrees Deal for Five New Class 66 Locos

[FrodshamJnct]

From Railcam UK:

GBRf is pleased to announce an agreement to bring an additional five Class 66 locomotives from Germany in cooperation with Beacon Rail Leasing.

The first two, classified as 29004/29005 have been delivered to EMD Doncaster ready for conversion to GBRf’s specification and UK railway standards. The remaining three locomotives will be delivered throughout 2021.

The first two locomotives are low-geared heavy haul 60mph locos which will benefit GBRf’s heavy-haul capability, while the remaining three are 75mph locomotives.

The locos will be delivered into GBRf service commencing early April 2021 with the programme of conversions being undertaken by EMD at their Doncaster and Longport facilities, this will include the fitting of air conditioning, sound proofing, cab improvements, and new cab double glazing. In addition, the locos will be fitted with the most up to date GSMR and TPWS safety systems and be painted in GBRf livery. Once in service they will become GBRf 66 793-797 locos.”

Full article here.

 

[pdeaves]

Additional information discussed here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/european-class-66s.209257/

 

[Roast Veg]

They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?

 

[Bob Price]

120 in France and 40 in Egypt.
Check the Wikipedia page and it lists the operators. 8 in Tanzania!

 

[DarloRich]

They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?

Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?

 

[Kingspanner]

Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?

 

[DarloRich]

Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?

IRC - correct

 

[furnessvale]

Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?

Exactly. And I can see more 66s coming in from abroad as other countries buy new locos and we buy seconhand.

 

[43096]

Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?

Exactly. The emissions standards are Europe-wide and cover delivery into the that area. Any suggestion of circumventing the rules is totally inappropriate.

 

[ExRes]

They'll do anything to slip more 66s in won't they? I can't help but feel like their constant circumvention of emissions standards for locos is a bit cheeky - at least there aren't many more available, right?

I really don't think they would be going down this path if there was an acceptable alternative, it's this way or no increase in locos

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

8 in Tanzania!

And six in Gabon.

MainlineDiesels.net - SETRAG Class 66

Mainline diesel locomotives

www.mainlinediesels.net

 

[Roast Veg]

Why? GBRF have obtained locomotives that meet the rules in exactly the same way you would if you bought a second hand car. Is the issue that they are class 66's?

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

 

[hwl]

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

All those strategies were permitted when the emission rules were being designed so not cheeky at all - it was expected.
EMD bought the engines, shipped them to the UK so they were in Europe pre cut off date and then back to the States because EMD had huge order backlog at the time so it was that or nothing.
Low emission locos aren't as clean as you would think because the regulatory drive cycle changed for EuroIIIB/V so the reduction in emission in real life is far smaller than the reduction in the regulatory standard limits - the goal posts have been moved to another pitch.

There isn't a UK sized loco available from anyone currently and it is cleaner than road transport overall.

 

[DarloRich]

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

GBRF are buying a second hand locomotive that meets all of the rules . Nothing wrong or cheeky with that. BTW was I evading emissions regulations when I bought a second hand car recently? Was I being cheeky?

They also didn't buy engines before they could afford the rest of the loco or anything of the sort. This is a preposterous suggestion.

 

[Bob Price]

I do agree there needs to be a new low emission replacement for the 66's but think it is a few years off yet. Theres a lot of life left in them yet.

 

[43096]

GBRF are buying a second hand locomotive that meets all of the rules . Nothing wrong or cheeky with that. BTW was I evading emissions regulations when I bought a second hand car recently? Was I being cheeky?

They also didn't buy engines before they could afford the rest of the loco or anything of the sort. This is a preposterous suggestion.

They’re not even buying them. The owner is just leasing them to someone else, it just happens the company is in a different country. No different to leasing them to a new operator in Netherlands when they previously worked in Germany.

 

[Domh245]

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

It's cheeky, sure, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Development of a new compliant* loco is ludicrously expensive - if you wanted to develop one you'd be looking at a decent sized fleet to justify it, meaning either poor utilisation or scrapping/mothballing existing locos. It also affects the business cases (in a limited way) for new electric locos as/when the network becomes electrified enough. I'd rather any new locos don't have diesel engines (as main traction at least), and until we can do that we make do with what already exists

Also worth bearing in mind that these locos will have been replaced by newer locos in Germany, it's effectively a cascade just on a European scale. As also pointed out, it's better these additional 66s than 100s (if not more) of new trucks.

*note that a newly compliant loco wouldn't be more fuel efficient necessarily, merely lower levels of NOx/Soot etc. If anything they're typically slightly less fuel efficient as a result of all the exhaust scrubbing equipment

 

[DarloRich]

They’re not even buying them. The owner is just leasing them to someone else, it just happens the company is in a different country. No different to leasing them to a new operator in Netherlands when they previously worked in Germany.

thanks for the clarification - i hadn't joined the dots even with the clue: Beacon Rail Leasing!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I do agree there needs to be a new low emission replacement for the 66's but think it is a few years off yet. Theres a lot of life left in them yet.

And a lot of electrification required if we are serious about low carbon

 

[43096]

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

I don't think it is correct to call it cheeky. It's an owner re-leasing an asset that happens to be required in a different country. No different from, say, an aircraft leasing company re-leasing a 10-year-old A320 to an other operator in a different country.

 

[rebmcr]

I have no qualms with their choice of loco. I would like to see more low emission locos instead of evading environmental regulation. This is yet more of the same from GBRf who have carefully stepped through loopholes for, what, a decade? Buying engines well before they could afford the rest of the loco, importing vast numbers of 66s and even the 69 conversion are all means to the same end.

It's great business decision making - but I don't think I'm out of order to call it cheeky.

If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.

 

[hst43102]

If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.

Very few 37s are still in use as freight locos. The only examples left in regular use are on stock moves and test trains, both of which would require 66's to have significant modifications.

 

[DarloRich]

If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.

now hang on - lets not get carried away! you mean all that "clagg" is bad for the environment?

 

[DB]

Very few 37s are still in use as freight locos. The only examples left in regular use are on stock moves and test trains, both of which would require 66's to have significant modifications.

And Colas have a couple of HST power cars to evaluate on the test trains.

Easy to see why GBRF are wanting 66s, given that they are the same as a large part of their existing fleet. Plus they are having the 56/69 rebuilds done also using many of the same components (including engines). Incidentally, are those new engines or second-hand ones? I am aware that the emissions standards are lower for re-engineering projects than for new-build locos.

 

[Richard Scott]

If imported 66s slowly put nails in the coffins of the incredibly dirty Class 37s, it's still progress.

Be interesting to see what the emissions from some of the older locos actually are. Remember an article years ago comparing two German classes, one from former West and one from former East and latter had better NOx emissions to everyone's surprise. Not sure the EE engines would be as bad as you think?

 

[Alanko]

Is this because new build locos need to meet emission standards that are hard to fit inside a UK gauged bodyshell, whereas 66s have "grandfather rights" and don't have to meet those standards?

The fact that 37s (and 20s still?) can get to corners of the network no 66/67/68 dare tread suggests that the UK needs a smaller gauged loco that isn't ~50 years old?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Here’s one of the ones that are already here:

 

[DB]

The fact that 37s (and 20s still?) can get to corners of the network no 66/67/68 dare tread suggests that the UK needs a smaller gauged loco that isn't ~50 years old?

How many lines actually are there where a 66/67/68 cannot go? Can't be many now.

Let's remember that a 37 is quite a bit heavier than a 67 or 68, although lower axle loading as it has more wheels.

 

[pdeaves]

How many lines actually are there where a 66/67/68 cannot go?

For a start, the Thameslink tunnels, Finsbury Park-Moorgate and the Mersey loop, I understand (have the rules changed?). It's notable that all those are tunnelled areas, though 31s, 73s and 20s are permitted through Thameslink so it's not (just) an exhaust thing.

 

[talltim]

The sad bit of it is, I bet many of the 66s that have moved to the UK have been replaced by electric locos. That’s not the FOC’s fault.