GBRf Class 99 - 30 locomotives now ordered

[D365]

I’ve heard from a reliable source that both 99s are planned in for testing next week between Crewe and Carlisle using coaching stock as a load. No idea or times or which days as yet.

GB testing for Class 99s sounds to be progressing a lot quicker than it took for the Class 93s!

 

[RKynaston]

Does it seem reasonable to speculate that the arrival of these locos is the most significant development traction-wise, for uk freight, since the 66s?

I know there are also the 88s and 93s so they don't mark the beginning of bimodes in the uk but somehow, the serious look of them and the fact that they are being deployed by GBRf gives me the feeling that we're going to see them become commonplace quite quickly, and that the clock starts ticking for 66s.

Yes would agree entirely. First Co-Co bi-mode in the UK suitable for heavy freight on both diesel and electric over more than 'last mile' distance.

I’ve heard from a reliable source that both 99s are planned in for testing next week between Crewe and Carlisle using coaching stock as a load. No idea or times or which days as yet.

Either next week or the week after yes - overnight moves on the WCML. Gather they will be hauled from Leicester to Crewe.

Hams Hall to Mossend must 100% be one of the services. The current timetable already has electric 'Y paths' with 4S57, planned as 4S94 which depart at the same time. The Monday to Friday ends up about 1.5 hrs quicker (although weirdly the timings change back to diesel from Beattock Summit, which seems unnecessary) and on Satuday it's 4 hrs quicker to Mossend.

I dont know the exact reason, but there is a situation north of Crewe (Possibly Warrington) where two modern powerful electrics (such as Stadler locos) in the same power section can cause issues if on full power. In essence if there is an '88' path north or south at the same time in that power section, the GBRf electric path for a 99 may only be available if they switch to diesel for a period, to avoid power problems. I know with the 93s if they run in multiple on electric, the software automatically downgrades the output to within safe limits.

I know when they did the 93 testing, ROG had to arrange with DRS to downgrade the power output of an 88 for a specific section on one path (or DRS had to run their path slightly earlier or later to avoid the power problems). In essence two 4MW electrics (whether in multi or separate workings) in the same power section, have the potential to pull 8MW of power, which exceeds the maximum, so by downgrading the output, so that combined they can still only pull the maximum which I think is around 6.8MW (dont quote me) avoids any issues.

GB testing for Class 99s sounds to be progressing a lot quicker than it took for the Class 93s!

It is 98% complete! First revenue earning train before the end of the year according to GBRf.

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes would agree entirely. First Co-Co bi-mode in the UK suitable for heavy freight on both diesel and electric over more than 'last mile' distance.


Either next week or the week after yes - overnight moves on the WCML. Gather they will be hauled from Leicester to Crewe.


I dont know the exact reason, but there is a situation north of Crewe (Possibly Warrington) where two modern powerful electrics (such as Stadler locos) in the same power section can cause issues if on full power. In essence if there is an '88' path north or south at the same time in that power section, the GBRf electric path for a 99 may only be available if they switch to diesel for a period, to avoid power problems. I know with the 93s if they run in multiple on electric, the software automatically downgrades the output to within safe limits.

I know when they did the 93 testing, ROG had to arrange with DRS to downgrade the power output of an 88 for a specific section on one path (or DRS had to run their path slightly earlier or later to avoid the power problems). In essence two 4MW electrics (whether in multi or separate workings) in the same power section, have the potential to pull 8MW of power, which exceeds the maximum, so by downgrading the output, so that combined they can still only pull the maximum which I think is around 6.8MW (dont quote me) avoids any issues.


It is 98% complete! First revenue earning train before the end of the year according to GBRf.

I understood the problem area was around Weaver Junction....

 

[ABB125]

I dont know the exact reason, but there is a situation north of Crewe (Possibly Warrington) where two modern powerful electrics (such as Stadler locos) in the same power section can cause issues if on full power. In essence if there is an '88' path north or south at the same time in that power section, the GBRf electric path for a 99 may only be available if they switch to diesel for a period, to avoid power problems. I know with the 93s if they run in multiple on electric, the software automatically downgrades the output to within safe limits.

I know when they did the 93 testing, ROG had to arrange with DRS to downgrade the power output of an 88 for a specific section on one path (or DRS had to run their path slightly earlier or later to avoid the power problems). In essence two 4MW electrics (whether in multi or separate workings) in the same power section, have the potential to pull 8MW of power, which exceeds the maximum, so by downgrading the output, so that combined they can still only pull the maximum which I think is around 6.8MW (dont quote me) avoids any issues.

Does this also apply to passenger services? An 11car pendolino is rated at ~6MW, so presumably the same limitations would apply - unless passenger services are given priority? (I appreciate you may not know the answer!)

 

[Nottingham59]

Does this also apply to passenger services? An 11car pendolino is rated at ~6MW, so presumably the same limitations would apply - unless passenger services are given priority? (I appreciate you may not know the answer!)

Yes, but a Pendolino will only be able to draw 6MW when it is going at speed, and will be several miles away within a couple of minutes, so any overheating of OHLE supply will be geographically more spread out.


EDIT: Roughly, a 390 weighs 500t with maximum acceleration of 0.5m/s2. Power = mass x speed x acceleration, so a pendo needs to be going at 20m/s = 45mph before it can lay down 5MW of power, and will accelerate to over 100mph within a minute.

A class 99 with 500kN tractive effort will accelerate a 5000t aggregates train at 0.1m/s. It needs to be going at 10m/s before it can apply 5MW, but will only be going at 16m/s after one minute more, localising any overheating effects.

 

[The_Train]

GB testing for Class 99s sounds to be progressing a lot quicker than it took for the Class 93s!

Probably because GB actually have work lined up for their 99s

 

[43096]

Probably because GB actually have work lined up for their 99s

Many a true word said in jest!

 

[99009]

Does it seem reasonable to speculate that the arrival of these locos is the most significant development traction-wise, for uk freight, since the 66s?

I know there are also the 88s and 93s so they don't mark the beginning of bimodes in the uk but somehow, the serious look of them and the fact that they are being deployed by GBRf gives me the feeling that we're going to see them become commonplace quite quickly, and that the clock starts ticking for 66s.

As others have said, yes, I totally agree. If the 99's end up being as successful and as reliable as the 66's, we could be looking here at not only the replacement of the 66's, but also the beginning of the end of diesel only locos working UK railfreight because every new build loco for freight would then be bi-mode at minimum and not diesel. It feels like the 68's (new build) and 69's (re build) will be the last.

 

[800001]

Don’t know times, but both 99s move tomorrow (Friday) to Loughborough Works

 

[Rail Quest]

Don’t know times, but both 99s move tomorrow (Friday) to Loughborough Works

This looks to be the move: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R01410/2025-06-20/detailed
There's then a 5Z47 move returning to Leicester soon after, though I can't imagine the locos will be on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K37035/2025-06-20/detailed

 

[50002Superb]

This looks to be the move: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R01410/2025-06-20/detailed
There's then a 5Z47 move returning to Leicester soon after, though I can't imagine the locos will be on this: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K37035/2025-06-20/detailed

Is the second one just the light engine return?

 

[zwk500]

Is the second one just the light engine return?

Class 5 usually means empty coaching stock, so maybe there's something to be collected from Loughborough while they're there.

 

[ac6000cw]

According to RTT, 0Q99 (Leicester - Loughborough) is 'Light Locomotive', and the return 5Z47 is 'trailing load 600 tonnes'.

 

[800001]

Been told from a source that the 99s return to Leicester on Monday.

 

[JKF]

Does anyone know when there will be further deliveries of the class? I understand these will be via Portbury, with onward movement by rail.

 

[themiller]

April 2025s Modern Railways has an article on the 99s and it gives insights into many aspects of the class. 99003 will be next but bodies for subsequent locos are in store.

 

[ac6000cw]

According to RTT, 0Q99 (Leicester - Loughborough) is 'Light Locomotive', and the return 5Z47 is 'trailing load 600 tonnes'.

I notice 0Q99 on RTT now says 'Operated with 47739 + 99001 + 99002'

 

[zwk500]

I notice 0Q99 on RTT now says 'Operated with 47739 + 99001 + 99002'

So presumably the 47 is picking up some coaches for the return?

 

[ac6000cw]

Does anyone know when there will be further deliveries of the class? I understand these will be via Portbury, with onward movement by rail.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gbrf-class-99-30-locomotives-now-ordered.228787/post-7328645 and the next few posts re. flooding in Valencia.

 

[50002Superb]

0Q99 didn’t go via Toton unfortunately, was waiting for it, thought it was strange to be scheduled that way.

 

[Trainman40083]

0Q99 didn’t go via Toton unfortunately, was waiting for it, thought it was strange to be scheduled that way.

Yes, went straight into Brush from Loughborough....GBrF later noticed on Loughborough station so the return diagram may not run.

 

[800001]

Yes, went straight into Brush from Loughborough....GBrF later noticed on Loughborough station so the return diagram may not run.

99s are both moving to Crewe on Monday to start testing between Crewe and Leicester via Stoke.
Unsure what was planned to come out of Loughborough this afternoon.

Edit 19:00
Now told only one 99 to move, testing will be Carlisle to Leicester Wednesday, Thursday and Friday next week, with a 66 attached.

 

[D6130]

99s are both moving to Crewe on Monday to start testing between Crewe and Leicester via Stoke.
Unsure what was planned to come out of Loughborough this afternoon.

Presumably they will be running in electric mode between Crewe and Stoke?

 

[Rail Quest]

Is anyone here familiar with traction curves? I'm doing some independent research and trying to compare the tractive effort of the Class 99 with that of the Class 66. The attached image is my attempt at constructing a diagram for this, whilst disregarding inefficiencies, as other graphs I found for the class 66 seem not to factor this in. Green represents the class 66 (1850 kW at rail), red is class 99 in diesel (1600 kW at rail, predicted in a previous rail engineering article), and purple is class 99 in electric (6170 kW at rail). The plotted points are the speeds (in mph, converted from m/s) where the continuous tractive effort curves meet the starting tractive effort. Is anyone able to verify if this looks correct?

 

[zwk500]

Is anyone here familiar with traction curves? I'm doing some independent research and trying to compare the tractive effort of the Class 99 with that of the Class 66. The attached image is my attempt at constructing a diagram for this, whilst disregarding inefficiencies, as other graphs I found for the class 66 seem not to factor this in. Green represents the class 66 (1850 kW at rail), red is class 99 in diesel (1600 kW at rail, predicted in a previous rail engineering article), and purple is class 99 in electric (6170 kW at rail). The plotted points are the speeds (in mph, converted from m/s) where the continuous tractive effort curves meet the starting tractive effort. Is anyone able to verify if this looks correct?
View attachment 182323

They are certainly within the realms of possibility, from other tractive effort curves I have seen.

 

[Nottingham59]

That looks the right shape, though the Stadler specification sheet for the Class 99 refers to tractive effort when starting and continuous, sadly without saying at what speed that continuous figure measured.

Starting tractive effort 500 kN
Continuous tractive effort 430 kN

See https://www.stadlerrail.com/api/docs/x/c52016d4e5/lc99_beacon0924_en.pdf

Similarly, the Wikipedia entry for the 66 quotes:

Starting 409 kN (92,000 lbf)[1]
Continuous 260 kN (58,000 lbf) at 15.9 mph (25.6 km/h)[1]

from a reference archived here:

Wayback Machine

Sorry if this complicates things for you

 

[Rail Quest]

the Stadler specification sheet for the Class 99 refers to tractive effort when starting and continuous, sadly without saying at what speed that continuous figure measured.

Yeah, I'd see this in my research but it was just too vague to gauge anything from it.

Similarly, the Wikipedia entry for the 66 quotes:
from a reference archived here:
Wayback Machine

Yes, thanks. I believe that verifies the data on my graph, at least for the class 66. 15.9mph=~7.11m/s and, looking at my graph, y is around 260 when x is 7.11

 

[ac6000cw]

This is someone else's graph of cl. 66 TE and rail hp - https://www.railtechnical.com/class-66-diesel-electric

 

[The Bear]

Is anyone here familiar with traction curves? I'm doing some independent research and trying to compare the tractive effort of the Class 99 with that of the Class 66. The attached image is my attempt at constructing a diagram for this, whilst disregarding inefficiencies, as other graphs I found for the class 66 seem not to factor this in. Green represents the class 66 (1850 kW at rail), red is class 99 in diesel (1600 kW at rail, predicted in a previous rail engineering article), and purple is class 99 in electric (6170 kW at rail). The plotted points are the speeds (in mph, converted from m/s) where the continuous tractive effort curves meet the starting tractive effort. Is anyone able to verify if this looks correct?
View attachment 182323

For electric mode it would be very interesting to see a comparison with class92 data.
Which in reality is what their performance over the northern WCML will be judged against.

 

[ac6000cw]

This post - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gbrf-class-99-30-locomotives-now-ordered.228787/post-7085424 (and the following ones) covers some of the 99 vs 92 vs double-90s debate - in theory, I think probably 2 x 90 should be tops (33% more axles with more weight on each than a 99), the 99 second and the 92 in third place, but once they get out of the adhesion-limited speed range the OHLE current limit becomes the main power limiting factor. Except of course the 99 is infinitely more capable than other two when the OHLE runs out...

But I'm sure GBRf will give the 99s a good off-the-leash workout over the northern WCML as soon as they're allowed to...