Generational moment ...

[Calthrop]

Reminds me of the very old joke. "Why couldn't the railway engine sit down"? "Because it had a tender behind". Sounds like it would fall completely flat with my grandchildren!

I'm not sure tender would ever have been all that common a term, you would surely have had to be interested in railways in the first place. I know that was more common previously when there were less distractions, but you would have to be ~65+ to have any serious recollections of working steam. The generational shift would have been a long time ago I would have thought

(My bolding) -- @stuu, I don't disagree with the rest of your post; but, re the bolded part: I'm 75, and recall having heard in my childhood, @DerekC 's above joke (or very near equivalent -- in my case it was, paraphrasing, "why is a boy who has recently undergone corporal punishment, like a railway engine?") -- those from whom I heard it, were not particularly railway-besotted.

 

[mike57]

I am of that generation, Main line steam was on the wane growing up, I was brought up in Southern electric land and it was only really seen on freight before being replaced by diesel, apart from the SW main line, had a couple of trips to Bournemouth behind Merchant Navy locos, and have a couple of photos from the family album.

The light a fire one is amusing, growing up we had open fires and a closed in stove that burnt hard coal. My 'chore' from about 7 or 8 was to clear the ash and relay the open fires so that they could be relit by the first person home in the evening, my mother also worked 3/4 time. By the time I moved away from London in 1980 gas central heating had replaced the open fires, but the village I had moved to in Yorkshire had no gas and it was back to lighting a fire, I fitted a multifuel stove which also heated the water and some radiators to replace the open hearth with a back boiler. Fuel was a mixture of wood and coal, whatever was available cheaply, fast forward and we still live in a small village, and although we have gas here we still use a log burner as our main heat as its a lot cheaper to run, especially as we get quite bit of 'free' wood, so apart from a short spell in my late teens/early twenties I have always been lighting fires.

 

[Ken H]

Bubble car as in cl 121. To me a bubble car was a 3 wheeler seating 2 people one behind the other. As mafe by Messerschmitt.
Are signallers still bobbies? Refers back to the days when signalmen were sworn constables. Bobbie referred to Sir Robert Peel who created the first lolice force. Dont most refer to police as Plod, which was a Minder creation but they nicked it from Noddy.
Theatre type route indicator refers to old music hall days when the act on stage had its number displayed in lights. People would look up the act in their programme.
Position light indicator referred to as a feather. From the old westernd when red indians (native americans) would have a feather stuck in their headband. Like Little Plumb in the Beano.

Anyone know where 'shunting neck' and 'dolly' meaning a subsidiary signal come from?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Anyone know where 'shunting neck' and 'dolly' meaning a subsidiary signal come from?

Don't know, but "Dolly" was also used, at least by London Transport, to mean a temporary bus stop - portable kind.

Unfortuanetely all-too-portable, as many of them ended up in student's bedrooms or, more enterprisingly, moved to somewhere more convenient (to the students) for catching a bus

.

 

[Gloster]

I was still frequently called ‘bobby’, along with many other things, as a signalman in the 1980s.

 

[Rescars]

I was still frequently called ‘bobby’, along with many other things, as a signalman in the 1980s.

I've heard a driver address a signaller as Bobby within the past decade.

 

[ac6000cw]

Anyone know where 'shunting neck'...

I assume because its the narrowest part of a fan of sidings, where they join together (often into a headshunt). Like the upper part of the human body or a bottle.

...and 'dolly' meaning a subsidiary signal come from?

I suspect because they were originally small versions of full-size signals e.g. miniature semaphore arms (like a toy doll is a miniature facsimile of a human). Modern 'position light' subsidiary signals mimic the 0/45 degree positions of miniature semaphore arms, as do mechanical 'disc' signals.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I've heard a driver address a signaller as Bobby within the past decade.

Many signallers are called Bobby, including my late Uncle Robert.

My nephew is named after him and worked in the construction industry, so he is Bob the Builder. His brother Sam is a fireman! (The engines he works on are the kind with blue lights on the top)!

 

[Titfield]

Cruise ships I’ve been on recently use tenders and call them such when port too small to get the cruise ship to a quay. So in that context it’s not uncommon today.

Given the huge growth in the cruise industry over the past two decades or so one would expect this to be a well known term.

Out of interest in the yachting and motorboat fraternity, many of the yachts / boats are on moorings a short distance out. A small dinghy is the means to get out to the yacht / boat and these usually have "TT" then the name of the boat or yacht) painted on the dinghy. TT standing for Tender To.

 

[Taunton]

Question in Saturday's Guardian children's crossword
Blue tank engine (6)
The letters in the intersecting lights were _D_A_D.

Good grief -- the Reverend must be turning in his grave.

At least, being The Guardian, the editor can blame it on a misprint.

Although maybe that's another traditional put-down lost on more recent generations.

 

[Irascible]

I was still frequently called ‘bobby’, along with many other things, as a signalman in the 1980s.

I think you're more likely to be called a bobby in a signal box than a police station these days...

A driver aquaintance was definitely talking about ringing up the bobby when it came to signalling matters, a few years ago.

 

[contrex]

Not to do with trains, but I had a real generational momemt last autumn when I was doing a late shift with a 24yo colleague.
I said "Adam Ant will be 70 next year. Doesn't seem possible"
Her reply was "Who?"

I had this with my next-door neighbour, similar age, regarding Mick Jagger being 80 last September (2023).

I think you're more likely to be called a bobby in a signal box than a police station these days...

A driver aquaintance was definitely talking about ringing up the bobby when it came to signalling matters, a few years ago.

My wife from Wigan calls fire-fighters 'fire bobbies'.

At least, being The Guardian, the editor can blame it on a misprint.

Although maybe that's another traditional put-down lost on more recent generations.

A bit obsolete since the 1980s approx, when computerised typesetting started. I know you didn't, but calling it the 'Gruaniad' got really old a long time ago.

 

[Taunton]

A bit obsolete since the 1980s approx, when computerised typesetting started. I know you didn't, but calling it the 'Gruaniad' got really old a long time ago.

The key misprint, when they spelled their own title name wrong, was "The Guradian".

It wasn't actually the paper masthead, as some have thought, but in the small ads, "Reply to Box 123 The Guradian". I don't think the tradition is obsolete, as the paper itself still regularly makes reference to it. They have always laughed at themselves about it. The Liverpool Echo used to be worse. I can recall whole lines upside-down.

 

[43096]

A bit obsolete since the 1980s approx, when computerised typesetting started. I know you didn't, but calling it the 'Gruaniad' got really old a long time ago.

Ironically you have misspelt “Grauniad”.

 

[Helvellyn]

A few years ago we had a Customer Service Director who wanted to modernise our archaic terminology:

• Passenger > Customer
• Alight > Get off
• Board > Get on
• Vestibule > Entranceway
• Gangway > Passageway
• Anti-macassar - Headrest cover

Did myself no favours asking if he would write to Passenger Focus asking if they would rename themselves.

Arguing you could be both a customer of a company and a passenger on a train likewise didn't go down well.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Don't know, but "Dolly" was also used, at least by London Transport, to mean a temporary bus stop - portable kind..

I said to someone that a dolly stop was temporarily replacing a certain bus stop in the town, but I then had to explain what I meant.

 

[mike57]

Gangway > Passageway

Going back into my days growing up the 60s a lot of non railway people, certainly in the SE refered to 'corridor trains' or the 'corridor', this was in the days when a lot of local services were non gangwayed, no toilets, and frequently individual compartments.

 

[Helvellyn]

Going back into my days growing up the 60s a lot of non railway people, certainly in the SE refered to 'corridor trains' or the 'corridor', this was in the days when a lot of local services were non gangwayed, no toilets, and frequently individual compartments.

Yet Corridor was also widely used to identify stock with compartments accessed by a side corridor. Presumably because compartment could mean stock with no access between them.

 

[mike57]

Yet Corridor was also widely used to identify stock with compartments accessed by a side corridor. Presumably because compartment could mean stock with no access between them.

Yes, I think in my parents case "Is it a corridor train" was euphamism "Are there toilets". I used to go out and play pool with my mates and would often meet them in Oxted as I was the odd one out living in inner London, and would always make sure to get in the 'right' carriage for the journey home on the old DEMUs back to Clapham Junction. Although we didnt over induldge the tanks would inevitably need draining before the walk home.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Yet Corridor was also widely used to identify stock with compartments accessed by a side corridor. Presumably because compartment could mean stock with no access between them.

The type codes suggest this. "Corridor" means a side corridor, not an inter-carriage gangway. But not always - the 4COR emus were so called because they were the first ones to have gangways (or corridor connections) between units - necessary to allow paesengers to reach the restaurant car in the middle unit of a 12 car train. The earlier 6PUL/6PAN units were gangwayed only within the units, with a catering vehicle in each half of a 12-car train.

In hauled stock a K suffix meant a side corridor with gangway (C meant composite, hence the use of K). An O suffix meant open, usually with gangway unless specifically stated otherwise (SO[NG]). If there was no suffix it meant non-corridor compartment stock. I think all gangwayed stock had a lavatory, in non-gangwayed stock an L suffix meant there was a lavatory (and, obviously, a side corridor)

The only difference with MU stock is that the default, even in gangwayed stock, was for there not to be a lavatory unless there was a K or L suffix.

 

[Rescars]

The Southern had a bit of a fixation with lavatories to identify various types of emus. There were LAVs (which had lavatories), BILs (which stood for Bi-lavatories - one lavatory in each car of a 2 car non-corridor unit), HALs (half-lavatories, with a lavatory in only one car of a two car non-corridor unit) and NOLs (which had no lavatories). All quite obvious once it had been explained! Some options clearly more convenient than others!

 

[norbitonflyer]

The Southern had a bit of a fixation with lavatories to identify various types of emus. There were LAVs (which had lavatories),..........

Indeed so. But a 4LAV only had one. It was essentially a 3SUB with an extra side-corridor composite trailer with a lavatory.

 

[Rescars]

Indeed so. But a 4LAV only had one. It was essentially a 3SUB with an extra side-corridor composite trailer with a lavatory.

Good point. Important to choose the right carriage!

Yes, I think in my parents case "Is it a corridor train" was euphamism "Are there toilets". I used to go out and play pool with my mates and would often meet them in Oxted as I was the odd one out living in inner London, and would always make sure to get in the 'right' carriage for the journey home on the old DEMUs back to Clapham Junction. Although we didnt over induldge the tanks would inevitably need draining before the walk home.

The term "corridor" has a long and proud history of identifying particular trains. IIRC, when corridor stock was introduced by the LNWR to provide access to dining facilities, the 2pm down West Coast express was called "The Corridor".

 

[Ken H]

Indeed so. But a 4LAV only had one. It was essentially a 3SUB with an extra side-corridor composite trailer with a lavatory.

Do people still know what a lavatory is?

 

[Eyersey468]

Discussion with (I believe aged late 30-something) colleague about sales staff time allocation in the (non-railway) office.

Me: "There's these remaining hours down here".
Him: "Yes, they're down to ... trade shows, client presentations, tenders ... um, what's a tender?".
Me: "It's what goes behind a steam locomotive ".
Him: "Eh ... what ... what are you talking about?".

Has it really gone from subsequent generations?

I'm 37 and while I know what a tender is I can well imagine a lot of people my age having no idea.

A couple that I've had to explain to other enthusiasts:

When the 91s were introduced and ran blunt end first, a few railwaymen in my neck of the woods used to say they were running 'tender first' - always made me laugh, but some just couldn't get it.

Another was why 50021 used to be named Dave...

Why did 50021 used to be named Dave? I wasn't aware it did to be honest

In similar vein, I’ll bet Class 31s being known as “Brians” is lost on an increasingly large number.

I wasn't aware of this either, why Brian?

 

[12LDA28C]

Why did 50021 used to be named Dave? I wasn't aware it did to be honest

I hadn't heard that before but at a guess I'd say that's an 'Only Fools And Horses' reference.

I wasn't aware of this either, why Brian?

Brian was a very slow snail on the kids' TV programme 'The Magic Roundabout' and 31s have a similar rate of progress...

 

[Eyersey468]

I hadn't heard that before but at a guess I'd say that's an 'Only Fools And Horses' reference.



Brian was a very slow snail on the kids' TV programme 'The Magic Roundabout' and 31s have a similar rate of progress...

Aah thanks now I understand the reference to Brian

 

[norbitonflyer]

I hadn't heard that before but at a guess I'd say that's an 'Only Fools And Horses' reference.

Rodney Trotter was always called "Dave" by Trigger

For a similar reason one of my friends at University whose real name was Bob was nicknamed Kate (a Blackadder reference).

The real namesake of the warship was an 18th century admiral.

 

[Eyersey468]

I hadn't heard that before but at a guess I'd say that's an 'Only Fools And Horses' reference.



Brian was a very slow snail on the kids' TV programme 'The Magic Roundabout' and 31s have a similar rate of progress...

Turns out the loco was really called Rodney, now I understand the reference

 

[12LDA28C]

Turns out the loco was really called Rodney, now I understand the reference

Well, exactly.