Geospatial Route Viewer

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Legolash2o

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Hi everyone,

I've made a little tool that allows you to put in an origin/destination to get information about the route such as electrification, gradient, route availability and a few other things. I learn of a lot of things from this forum and this sort of stuff is the few ways I can contribute in return.

It's still a work in progress but I'm open for ideas or just feedback. The charts let you download detailed breakdown of the information which I know can be used in research or other things.

https://railmap.azurewebsites.net/Public/Route

Hope you find it useful.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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'Destintion' (sic) ? = Shortage of space to display all the letters?
 

Grumpy

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I just tried Gargrave to Carnforth and it looked fine in terms of gradients. However it showed 80 miles of electrification.
 

Darandio

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I just tried Gargrave to Carnforth and it looked fine in terms of gradients. However it showed 80 miles of electrification.

Yeah, there is something up with that. Redcar Central to Darlington at 22.54 miles with 81.21 (360.27%!) miles of electrification.
 

Legolash2o

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Wow - what a fantastic tool - thank you.

No problem and thank you.

I just tried Gargrave to Carnforth and it looked fine in terms of gradients. However it showed 80 miles of electrification.
I've just seen that. Strange how the other charts and tables says there's none!

If you click search it, just increases. I'll fix that now. Thanks for reporting it.

UPDATE: Fixed it. It wasn't resetting it to 0 before each search so it kept summing it up.
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Just did a Manchester Airport to Windermere (via Chorley). Disgusting!. 88.84% electrified - so for the sake of 10.25 miles electrification you could have the whole lot run on clean electric. The DfT and the politicians need to see this tool.
 

AngusH

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This is a brilliant tool. The data and display are first rate.

As you specifically asked for missing data issues, (normally wouldn't be nitpicking!)
I think I saw a missing section in the gradient data for the borders railway in Scotland between Newcraighall and Tweedbank.


Anyway, good luck with this, it's great.
 

Legolash2o

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Just did a Manchester Airport to Windermere (via Chorley). Disgusting!. 88.84% electrified - so for the sake of 10.25 miles electrification you could have the whole lot run on clean electric. The DfT and the politicians need to see this tool.
I think Bi-Mode may be a better option for that one. On that note, I also ran it and noticed I have gradient information missing for Windermere, it has now been added.


This is a brilliant tool. The data and display are first rate.

As you specifically asked for missing data issues, (normally wouldn't be nitpicking!)
I think I saw a missing section in the gradient data for the borders railway in Scotland between Newcraighall and Tweedbank.


Anyway, good luck with this, it's great.

Nitpicking is fine, I want to create a tool that everyone can use.

I still have 8% of the gradient data to enter until I've finished (mostly around London). There's parts on the London North Eastern that I don't have the source data for and Tweedbank is one of those. My only data source for that is the 5 mile diagrams (not TRATIM) and not sure how much I can trust it.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Presumably the direction of travel is key. (Obviously what will be an incline in one direction won't in the other!) Take it that the green marker on the map extract is always the route origin, and the red one the destination?
 

Legolash2o

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Presumably the direction of travel is key. (Obviously what will be an incline in one direction won't in the other!) Take it that the green marker on the map extract is always the route origin, and the red one the destination?
Green is origin and red is destination. Direction is taken into consideration on the gradients. For example, if a bi-directional track is typically 1 in 200, then any train going the opposite direction would be 1 in -200, as it's now going downhill instead of up.

EDIT: I've added arrows on mouseover.
 
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Roast Veg

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This is an excellent tool and a terrific piece of work. Congratulations for all the work so far.
 

Taunton

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UPDATE: Fixed it. It wasn't resetting it to 0 before each search so it kept summing it up.
I had a major accounting system that used to do that, we eventually found, written a generation (probably two) ago, in Cobol! Didn't think such things were still possible :) Actually it only did it one time in 100, as it had a two digit counter. Took an age to find, caused much disruption.
 

AM9

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It's a useful tool to use, well done! I put in Bedford to East Croydon to check out the TL core gradients and change of electricity supply. Following comment:
a) The core gradients are shown as N/A
b) The electric supply shown is correct for N>S travel, i.e. changeover at Farringdon, but it should show City Thameslink as the location for S>N travel changeover, (admittedly a small issue).
There is also a routing error, From Blackfriars south the route is via Herne Hill and West Norwood, whereas the normal path for through services is via London Bridge and Sydenham.
 

Legolash2o

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It's a useful tool to use, well done! I put in Bedford to East Croydon to check out the TL core gradients and change of electricity supply. Following comment:
a) The core gradients are shown as N/A
b) The electric supply shown is correct for N>S travel, i.e. changeover at Farringdon, but it should show City Thameslink as the location for S>N travel changeover, (admittedly a small issue).
There is also a routing error, From Blackfriars south the route is via Herne Hill and West Norwood, whereas the normal path for through services is via London Bridge and Sydenham.

Hey,
I've not mapped the London area yet and some more complex areas i.e slows have different gradients than the fasts near London.

I've made some changes so hopefully the electrification around Farringdon is correct.

What are origin, via (if specified) and destination for that route please? It should take the shortest path.
 

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Swanley 59

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That's a very interesting tool you have there. I used it to trace the route of the soon to be reinstated passenger service (I hope) over the Northumberland line between Ashington Junction and Newcastle Central. I was surprised at the short stretch of 1 in 46 just south of Seghill. A legacy of mining subsidence?
 

AM9

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Hey,
I've not mapped the London area yet and some more complex areas i.e slows have different gradients than the fasts near London.

I've made some changes so hopefully the electrification around Farringdon is correct.

Sorry, my comments weren't criticism. I'm looking forward to when some of the London routes are mapped. That'll be a hell of a job.

What are origin, via (if specified) and destination for that route please? It should take the shortest path.
The origin was Bedford [BEDFDM], and the destination East Croydon [ECROYDN]. I didn't put any via there, - as I didn't know that the shortest route was chosen. The direct route in actual normal services from Blackfriars is via London Bridge, New Cross Gate, Sydenham, Penge West & Norwood Junction.
 

SteveM70

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That’s fantastic. The only thing that I’d point out is that the gradient graph might work better if the gradient was expressed as a percentage rather than 1 in x. As it is, flat is 0 so in the centre of the y axis range, a gentle gradient leaps to the top or bottom of the y axis, and progressively steeper gradients move closer to 0, which feels a bit counter intuitive. I probably haven’t explained that very well. But honestly, it’s ace
 

Legolash2o

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Sorry, my comments weren't criticism. I'm looking forward to when some of the London routes are mapped. That'll be a hell of a job.


The origin was Bedford [BEDFDM], and the destination East Croydon [ECROYDN]. I didn't put any via there, - as I didn't know that the shortest route was chosen. The direct route in actual normal services from Blackfriars is via London Bridge, New Cross Gate, Sydenham, Penge West & Norwood Junction.

Don't worry, I didn't take it as criticism so no need to apologise. All feedback is welcome, good and bad! :D

Thanks for the tiplocs too.

That’s fantastic. The only thing that I’d point out is that the gradient graph might work better if the gradient was expressed as a percentage rather than 1 in x. As it is, flat is 0 so in the centre of the y axis range, a gentle gradient leaps to the top or bottom of the y axis, and progressively steeper gradients move closer to 0, which feels a bit counter intuitive. I probably haven’t explained that very well. But honestly, it’s ace

Ooo good idea! Just got figure out how to convert it to percentages. You explained it perfectly well, I thought that when I first did the chart as is it confusing as hell.

I'm open to other ideas that people think will be useful to show. I'll be adding more capability data and maximum speeds limits in the future as well. I will also share a link similar to the electrification map but with gradients instead so people on here can just play around.
 

SouthernR

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That’s fantastic. The only thing that I’d point out is that the gradient graph might work better if the gradient was expressed as a percentage rather than 1 in x. As it is, flat is 0 so in the centre of the y axis range, a gentle gradient leaps to the top or bottom of the y axis, and progressively steeper gradients move closer to 0, which feels a bit counter intuitive. I probably haven’t explained that very well. But honestly, it’s ace
Yes, on the present scale, the gradient line should go off-scale (+ve and/or -ve) whenever it's flat!

The average gradient appears to be calculated as -
(elevation at finish - elevation at start) / distance
Whilst this is correct, is it useful? It does not distinguish between hilly or level routes, as inclines are cancelled out by declines.
I presume an indication of total height gained is required (as a cyclist or walker would want to know).

Great idea!
 

Legolash2o

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This may be a stupid question, but when calculating the percentage of gradient change, is the the percentage since starting the journey or each segment?

I'm tempted to get rid of that chart altogether and just show the elevation.

The average gradient appears to be calculated as -
(elevation at finish - elevation at start) / distance
Whilst this is correct, is it useful? It does not distinguish between hilly or level routes, as inclines are cancelled out by declines.
I presume an indication of total height gained is required (as a cyclist or walker would want to know).
I agree. On the example route when it first loads, it has a average gradient of 1 in 68519 which is very very flat. If you look at the elevation chart, there's a section near Helpston that is just incline that missed if average was just taken into consideration. I'm thinking of just removing the average gradient part at the top to just say "See tables below".
 

zwk500

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I'm tempted to get rid of that chart altogether and just show the elevation.
I personally would, but include the gradient data in the elevation chart (hidden) so that when you highlight a specific point the tooltip gives both relative elevation to start and gradient.
 

Bill57p9

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Another idea on the gradient profile would be to show it as a % grade. So 1:100 becomes 1%, 1:50 2% and so on. This way round small gradients give small numbers around the flat (zero) point. Even better if it would still be possible to display the y-axis scale as the 1: format us Brits are used to, but that would just be icing on the cake.

Awesome tool (& data) by the way.
 

Roast Veg

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What are origin, via (if specified) and destination for that route please? It should take the shortest path.
A lot of the time this comes out rather odd. For instance, many routings via Doncaster go through Doncaster Carr depot rather than along the ECML.

Additionally, would it be possible to allow searching by three letter station codes? They should all have a corresponding tiploc if I'm not mistaken.
 

zwk500

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Additionally, would it be possible to allow searching by three letter station codes? They should all have a corresponding tiploc if I'm not mistaken.
I think some 3-letter codes correspond to more than one TIPLOC (London Bridge definitely, Tamworth maybe?).
 

Roast Veg

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I think some 3-letter codes correspond to more than one TIPLOC (London Bridge definitely, Tamworth maybe?).
Of course. Perhaps all relevant tiplocs should appear in the search for a given three letter code then.
 

zwk500

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Of course. Perhaps all relevant tiplocs should appear in the search for a given three letter code then.
It's another layer of complication to write in, and of course does nothing for locations that have TIPLOCs but not CRS codes, such as freight yards. (Although I'm not the one writing this remarkable tool, so it's down to the OP if he's willing to sort it out! :lol: )
 

Roast Veg

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I dare say that provided there is a convenient dataset from CRS to TIPLOC it will provide a convenient method of finding the TIPLOC you actually meant when you typed your CRS. It doesn't detract from finding other TIPLOCs.
 

Legolash2o

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Currently you can search via name, tiploc or stanox. It's not a problem to add CRS code too and then have the user select the one they actually want. :D


A lot of the time this comes out rather odd. For instance, many routings via Doncaster go through Doncaster Carr depot rather than along the ECML.

Additionally, would it be possible to allow searching by three letter station codes? They should all have a corresponding tiploc if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah I noticed that. It's because technically via the sidings is the shortest path. I'm tempted to add some weightings to the algorithm to prefer certain track id's i.e. 1100, 2100, 3100. I'll see what I can do :)
 
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