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German rail ticketing

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Merseysider

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Hello all, hoping you may be able to help with some of the general principles ahead of my stay in Germany.

The Deutsche Bahn conditions of carriage are 187 pages long and are unavailable in English.

I've established that 1st class tickets are always valid in second class, and that buying on board incurs a higher price, but the language is quite difficult to wade through.

Is break of journey allowed on walk-up tickets?

Is split ticketing allowed? (I've noticed some examples where it's cheaper to split Savings fares at Leipzig for cross-country journeys.)

How does delay repay work?

What are the rules about the route you may take with a ticket? (eg is only the shortest route allowed?)

Thanks :D
 
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30907

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Break of journey and splits are allowed.

Delay repay info: http://www.bahn.de/p_en/view/booking/passenger-rights/passengers-rights-overview.shtml?dbkanal_007=L01_S02_D002_KIN0001_index-footer-passagierrecht_LZ001

Routing on flexible tickets (or the Regional segment of an Advance) is shown on the ticket and the easy way to check is to test what routes www.bahn.de will allow. International tickets in particular seem to have a wide interavailability. I think other forum members may be better informed on this than I am.
 

Merseysider

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Break of journey and splits are allowed.

Delay repay info: http://www.bahn.de/p_en/view/booking/passenger-rights/passengers-rights-overview.shtml?dbkanal_007=L01_S02_D002_KIN0001_index-footer-passagierrecht_LZ001

Routing on flexible tickets (or the Regional segment of an Advance) is shown on the ticket and the easy way to check is to test what routes www.bahn.de will allow. International tickets in particular seem to have a wide interavailability. I think other forum members may be better informed on this than I am.
Thank you; hopefully I won't run into any defiant conductors ;)

Fares to other countries seem to be outstandingly excellent value - I can get an advance single from Berlin to Warsaw for £30! I might be wrong, but it appears return journeys are all comprised of two independently priced singles - can this be confirmed?
 

NicholasNCE

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Discounts for return fares are very much a British thing, I'm yet to encounter any on the continent.
 

Bletchleyite

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Routing on flexible tickets (or the Regional segment of an Advance) is shown on the ticket and the easy way to check is to test what routes www.bahn.de will allow. International tickets in particular seem to have a wide interavailability. I think other forum members may be better informed on this than I am.

The routeing system is very nice other than that it uses a set of codes that aren't I believe documented anywhere public for station names - however they are usually fairly obvious. They are in a sort-of Cartesian product form, and I recall that they define boundaries - I understand you can use any route within those boundaries provided you don't go in the wrong direction completely (This is I think stricter than doubling back). However the routeing is usually fairly strictly specified so the number of situations where it isn't just a case of "do exactly what the ticket says" are fairly minimal.

Examples:

Munich-Salzburg Ueber: RO * FREI = via Rosenheim and Freilassing

Then a British example so I don't need a German railway map - imagine a WCML journey from Manchester to London you might have:-

Ueber: (SPT/SYA) * (SOT/CRE) * (RGL/BHM) * MKC

i.e. via Stockport/Styal then Stoke/Crewe then Rugeley/Birmingham then Milton Keynes (or any routes between those lines).

Must admit it's a scheme I very much like, and would like to see on British tickets as well, then there could be no arguments over Permitted Routes.

If you see NV that means Nahverkehr i.e. local trains with no route specified, I expect shortest route is in order here though I'm not 100% sure. On Advances you'll also see the train number in here, and on international TCV tickets you get numbers like <1080> - these are a UIC code for the country's railway you've gone into. On a TCV ticket you might also see "Grenzuebergang" specifying which border crossing you must use.

With regard to international tickets, increasingly these are standalone services with dedicated, reservation compulsory tickets. TCV is becoming much less applicable.

As regards singles/returns, day and period returns do exist (I forget the validity but it is quite generous), but always priced at twice the single.

There are no off-peak walk-up tickets - walk up single/return fares do not have time restrictions.

Neil
 
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pne

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I might be wrong, but it appears return journeys are all comprised of two independently priced singles - can this be confirmed?

I believe this is true for Advances. The two halves can also have different discount tiers, e.g. you might get €59 for the Out portion and €79 for the Return portion of a return ticket. So it’s effectively two singles but they can be (and usually are) issued on piece of paper.
 

fandroid

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For local journeys which can also involve other means of transport as well as rail, the fares are often cheaper than the DB ones. Then the fares are based on fare zones, so you have to stay within the correct number of zones for the route to be a valid one. ie, you cannot use a route that transits 4 zones when the fare is based on transit through 3 zones.

I had the cheaper local fare alternative pointed out to me by the DB person at the ticket desk at Leipzig/Halle airport, where catching one train (IC- Intercity) to Leipzig Hbf would be more expensive than catching the RE train which was not a lot slower and left before the IC ! Also, that local ticket allowed me to use trams in Leipzig to get to my hotel. If money is not a big issue then buying standard DB tickets saves too much thinking! If you find yourself on an ICE then you can pay the supplement to the train manager.
 

Merseysider

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Thanks all - very informative answers :)

The purpose of my trip will be one year studying in a German university as part of my languages course; are there any discounts you are aware of (like TPE's half price advances for 16-25 railcard holders, or local authorities giving students free travel) - or is the BahnCard my best bet?

I don't think split ticketing is as well publicised in Germany as it is over here - I couldn't find anything via a search of the German equivalent. It's also quite something that an annual BahnCard 100 (100% discount on tickets) is cheaper than some London commutes.

I've also noticed a couple of direct trains Berlin - Moscow which I'll have to try, despite it being a 24 hour trip :lol:
 

Bletchleyite

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DB's pricing, while still market-based, is much clearer than the UK's and there are far fewer inconsistencies - so by splitting you are unlikely to save money unless it's some weird combination of Advance tickets.

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quite likely your annual student "admin fee" will give you free travel in your local area. This is often called SemesterTicket.

There's also this:
http://www.bahn.de/p/view/bahncard/ueberblick/bahncard_studenten.shtml

Neil
 
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NicholasNCE

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I've also noticed a couple of direct trains Berlin - Moscow which I'll have to try, despite it being a 24 hour trip :lol:

There's many easier places to get to by direct train from Berlin than Moscow, as both a Belarussian transit visa and a Russian tourist visa are necessary...
 

30907

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Thanks all - very informative answers :)

The purpose of my trip will be one year studying in a German university as part of my languages course; are there any discounts you are aware of (like TPE's half price advances for 16-25 railcard holders, or local authorities giving students free travel) - or is the BahnCard my best bet?

I don't think split ticketing is as well publicised in Germany as it is over here - I couldn't find anything via a search of the German equivalent. It's also quite something that an annual BahnCard 100 (100% discount on tickets) is cheaper than some London commutes.

I've also noticed a couple of direct trains Berlin - Moscow which I'll have to try, despite it being a 24 hour trip :lol:

You will find it worth joining www.drehscheibe-online.de; the Allgemeines Forum is the place to ask, it will improve your language skills and vocab, and they don't mind questions in bad German!
 

WestCoast

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Thanks all - very informative answers :)

The purpose of my trip will be one year studying in a German university as part of my languages course; are there any discounts you are aware of (like TPE's half price advances for 16-25 railcard holders, or local authorities giving students free travel) - or is the BahnCard my best bet?
l:

I'm studying at a German Uni at the moment :D. Every transport association will offer an unlimited travel student ticket that is available to students at higher education establishments within their boundaries. Some areas are even completely free for students (tends to be the smaller towns and cities) but others charge varying fees which are reduced or heavily reduced.

In Munich, we get very off-peak travel (18:00 to 06:00) free on production of our student card as part of our student fee and then we pay a supplement of approx. 145 euros a semester (two semesters = one year) to travel all day long. Compared to the standard prices it's a bargain, especially as they let us travel on the entire network which is very large!

Regarding the BahnCard, it is useful for longer journeys on IC/ICE trains more than anything else. Every state has a ticket such as the Bavaria Ticket that covers unlimited travel off-peak and BahnCard doesn't tend to offer any discount on them. They tend to be around 22 euros per day and you can get some serious mileage on regional trains in your chosen state. However, check out Bahn.de around September/October time, they often have the BahnCard on promotion for new students - I got mine for just 20 euros! :D
 

fandroid

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Can anyone provide details on the Schoeneswochenendeticket? I suspect that would be a good bet for getting around (at weekends!). I have a feeling that it covers multiple travellers too. Perfect for a gang of impecunious students.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Can anyone provide details on the Schoeneswochenendeticket? I suspect that would be a good bet for getting around (at weekends!). I have a feeling that it covers multiple travellers too. Perfect for a gang of impecunious students.

€40 for one person, plus €4 each for up to four others.
For one day Saturday OR Sunday, not ICE/IC/EC, all of Germany.
http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/prices/germany/schoenes-wochenende-ticket.shtml

The Länder ticket for Berlin includes Brandenburg for €29 for a day ticket for 5 people.
 

Wild Swan

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There's loads of ticket info on both the English and German versions of the bahn.de website. This will tell you all you need to know about Ländertickets, Schoenes-Wochenende, it's weekday equivalent, the Quer-durchs-Land Ticket and BahnCard. To quickly answer the earlier question about BahnCard though, a BahnCard 25 normally costs €62 per year but there is a student version for €41 which gets you 25% off full fares and Saver fares. There is also a student version of BahnCard 50 which is more expensive. Although this gets you 50% of full fares, it doesn't give any reduction on Saver fares.
 

airinter

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oneway & return ticket
the price for a return ticket is almost always the same as two single tickets, there is however a difference if you need a refund.
Anytime tickets (Normalpreis, either with Bahncard-discount or not) can be refunded free of charge up to one day before the first day of validity and a fee of 17,50 thereafter.
Advancetickets can be refunded for a fee of 17,50 up to one day before departure only.
Cancelling an advance return ticket will cost the 17,50 fee only once while two separate oneways add up to a 35,00 fee. On the other hand you can not get a refund for the inbound portion of a return ticket after the outbound has been used.

In theory there are three categories of trains on the national rail network in Germany:
local fares (Nahverkehr) is the cheapest and only valid on slow trains, although you can upgrade anytime local to a faster train ticket with a supplement called productchange (Produktwechsel). Upgrades are not availible for heavily discounted tickets, especially the Schönes Wochenende, Quer-durchs-Land or Ländertickets, which offer unlimited travel on local trains, or student tickets.
Intercity (including Eurocity) fares are slightly more expensive than local fares and allow travel on the mainline, but not on high speed trains. They are also valid on local trains, though you will not get a refund if you travel on a slower service.
ICE (Intercity Express) fares are valid on the highspeed trains, essentially the ICE, but also the austrian Railjet and the domestic part of the TGV to France. They too are valid on slower trains.

Most areas in germany are also part of a regional fare scheme which usually uses either zones or townborders for their farestructure. Within these areas the same ticket is valid for local trains, tramways and busses, but there is usually no bahncard-discount and the "normal" local fares from DB are not availible for journeys within one regional network (but again for travel between different networks)
The Thalys trains from Essen to Aachen via Duisburg, Dusseldorf and Cologne (and on to Brussels and Paris) is a complete alien and can not be used with any Deutsche Bahn tickets. Thalys tickets are also no longer sold at german railwaystations, the only option is to book online or buy a very expensive ticket on board.
Advance tickets are availibe while stocks last and up to one day prior to departure. They can be combined with a Bahncard25 discount, but not with Bahncard50. The availibility of advance tickets relies on the mainline trains only, so you can sometimes get a massive discount if you travel certain parts in local trains if there is no advance fare availible for that segment, though this involves considerable amounts of guesswork and hit and miss. It is compulsory to use the main line trains indicated on the ticket, but except in first class there is no seat reservation included. When the tickets includes one or several portions on local trains you can choose any local train that suits you, but not upgrade to mainline trains.
Some special fares are not sold by Deutsche Bahn directly but through other websites, notably comparison sites for long distance coaches or the german lastminute website ltur.com. These tickets can be considerably cheaper than normal advance tickets, but the can not be cancelled or changed at all, are only availible online and are valid for selected routes on mainline trains only. There is also no discount for bahncard holders.
Onlinetickets are valid for the person whos name is indicated on the ticket and must be combined with a certain form of identification. Most credit- and bankcards will do, any Bahncard or the free bahnbonus-card or german passports or id-cards. Paper tickets from ticketmachines or railway station bear no name and can be used by anyone else.
It is well worth to apply for a free bahnbonus-card, they are valid as ID for onlinetickets and you usually get 500 free points for signup, which is already sufficient for some rewards. There are infrequent but numerous special offers where you either get a reduced price for certain destinations or plenty of free points if you travel within a certain period.
Both bahncards (those with a discount) and bahnbonuscards also allow to collect status points towards the elite level bahncomfort, which essentially gives lounge access at large stations, though the status itself can only be used if you own a bahncard.
eCoupons are discount codes which are distributed either via newsletter or facebook or sometimes promotional leaflets or on certain products in supermarkets. They can only be used once and are (in theory) not transferable. Another frequent special offer is a free companion ticket (Mitfahrerfreifahrt), though these are oneway only and the return has to be paid unless you have a second companion ticket.
There are some other companies operating certain francises on the national rail network, but they usually use DB fares and ticketing. HKX, a private train from Cologne to Hamburg, sells its own tickets but nowadays also accepts DB tickets, with the exception of certain local fare tickets. Some traincompanys accept tickets with bahncard discount, but do not sell those tickets on their own ticketmachines, in this case the adjacent machine from Deutsche Bahn offers better value.
Free travel for students is usually valid for busses, trams and local trains in the area, though one has to read the smallprint carefully.
Split tickets can sometimes be cheaper than a through fare, but you loose the right for alternative travel if you miss your connection. If you miss a connecting train during a journey that is covered by the same tickets DB has to get you to your final destination somehow (that might include alternative trains, a taxi or hotel) and pay a compensation for the delay. If you travel on two separate tickets it is your quest to reach the second part in time so allow plenty of connecting time- you may get a refund for the delay of the first part, but the second ticket is void.
 

Merseysider

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Wow, thanks for such a comprehensive answer! I'll have to copy and paste that into a Word document for future reference :D

I'll be sorting my definite travel plans out and buying tickets and looking at hotels (I plan on going Manchester - London - Brussels/Paris - route to Berlin) and will be booked in the next 6 weeks so don't go anywhere guys! ;)

Mods - Please don't lock this thread; I have a trip to Germany in the summer and a residential stay starting in Autumn so it'll be useful to have the thread unlocked in case I need quick advice. :)
 

30907

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Only a couple of tips to add to Airinter ' s comprehensive summary.

1. DB Europe Special fares always permit the following:
two stopovers up to 48 hours each in Germany, specified when booking.
greater flexibility of routing compared with national tickets - I've notice this specially applies to London Special.
Starting and finishing short.
Which added together can sometimes mean it is better to buy an international ticket for an internal journey.

2. Split ticketing occasionally works, more often with trips crossing Verkehrsverbund boundaries, but sometimes on IC too. The German is stueckeln.
 

HowardGWR

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Just an internal query on DB

We are staying in Berlin in May (rail /air tickets already booked). We will be staying a couple of days and then moving on to the Spreewald south of Berlin, Is there any advantage in advance booking of day rover local transport around Berlin and return tickets to the Spreewald (Lubbenau) area?

Any knowledge most appreciated,
 

maxiboy

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Just an internal query on DB

We are staying in Berlin in May (rail /air tickets already booked). We will be staying a couple of days and then moving on to the Spreewald south of Berlin, Is there any advantage in advance booking of day rover local transport around Berlin and return tickets to the Spreewald (Lubbenau) area?

Any knowledge most appreciated,

Most likely you will be travelling on regional rail services only. In fact Berlin-Lübbenau is operated by ODEG, not by DB Regio, but this won't matter as all fares are set by the Berlin-Brandenburg Passenger Transport Executive (www.vbb.de). Tickets can be bought locally in advance (no ToD or e-ticket for most of these local fares), but there will be no difference in price. It's perfectly fine to buy shortly before departure.
 

HowardGWR

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Most likely you will be travelling on regional rail services only. In fact Berlin-Lübbenau is operated by ODEG, not by DB Regio, but this won't matter as all fares are set by the Berlin-Brandenburg Passenger Transport Executive (www.vbb.de). Tickets can be bought locally in advance (no ToD or e-ticket for most of these local fares), but there will be no difference in price. It's perfectly fine to buy shortly before departure.

That is great (and very prompt!) information which will hopefully help others.

Many thanks, H
 

airinter

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One more detail about the "Sparpreis" Advance tickets:
While you can only refund them up to the day before travel, you can still upgrade them to an Anytime ticket on the day of travel by paying a 17,50 fee plus the difference to the full fare. The fee is calculated per direction (in case of a return) and per ticket, not per passenger.
The upgraded ticket will still be valid on the original day of travel only, unlike a proper Anytime, which may be valid within several days depending on the distance.
This "Sparpreis-Zusatz" supplement is also availible for most international "Europa-Spezial" offers, but afaik not for "London-Spezial". It does also not apply to special offers that are not "Sparpreis", especially those not sold by ltur (Fernwehticket) or varios pricecomparison sites for coachtravel.
 

fandroid

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Just one general item to add. I believe that if you have a normal DB ticket you can pay the ICE supplement (which is a fixed sum) on the train
. I have only done it once a couple of years back but the TM was happy to accept my money! Some routes are a mix of IC and ICE, and if your journey planning is not timed to the minute, you might find that you've paid for an ICE ticket, only to find yourself on an IC (or EC) train.
 

ainsworth74

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Mods - Please don't lock this thread; I have a trip to Germany in the summer and a residential stay starting in Autumn so it'll be useful to have the thread unlocked in case I need quick advice.

We occasionally autolock old threads but we have no ability to single out specific threads for saving whilst using that process. That being said it's usually threads with no activity for at least six months so you'll probably be fine. As always report (
report.gif
) the thread if you want it reopening (or any other thread for that matter).
 
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