Getting from Carlisle to Maryport on 24th December 2022

[donald2007]

Northern have cancelled my train tonight so I won't get home, I've elected to stay with friends until tomorrow. I'll be able to get to Carlisle but not to Maryport as no services are running on the Cumbrian Coast. Will my ticket be accepted for travel tomorrow and is there any basis to claim back a bus fare to get me from CAR to MRY tomorrow?

 

[blackpoolsouth]

Northern have cancelled my train tonight so I won't get home, I've elected to stay with friends until tomorrow. I'll be able to get to Carlisle but not to Maryport as no services are running on the Cumbrian Coast. Will my ticket be accepted for travel tomorrow and is there any basis to claim back a bus fare to get me from CAR to MRY tomorrow?

You've the right to transport home be that RRB or taxi

 

[Watershed]

Northern have cancelled my train tonight so I won't get home, I've elected to stay with friends until tomorrow. I'll be able to get to Carlisle but not to Maryport as no services are running on the Cumbrian Coast. Will my ticket be accepted for travel tomorrow and is there any basis to claim back a bus fare to get me from CAR to MRY tomorrow?

What trains did you intend to take? What ticket(s) do you hold, and when did you buy it/them?

 

[donald2007]

I had an advance ticket from Metrocentre to Maryport via Carlisle which was cancelled due to a shortage of crew. The next train was below the minimum connection time at Carlisle for the last service meaning my journey was unviable. Rather
than be on the hook for a hotel or expensive taxi, I’ve elected to travel tomorrow to Carlisle and stay with friends.

 

[Starmill]

You're entitled to travel on the next available service Northern are running automatically. That would include the following day, even on an otherwise expired ticket, if the reason is because your service was delayed, cancelled or retimed. You're also not obliged to travel as far as you can on the original day of travel, so if your journey were rendered impossible by the disruption then this wouldn't be a problem.

However - do you propose to travel on the first service which actually runs from Metrocentre tomorrow?

If you don't you may be passing up on the automatic right to use your ticket, and instead require permission. This permission should be forthcoming but obviously we'd need to know a little more.

 

[hkstudent]

I had an advance ticket from Metrocentre to Maryport via Carlisle which was cancelled due to a shortage of crew. The next train was below the minimum connection time at Carlisle for the last service meaning my journey was unviable. Rather
than be on the hook for a hotel or expensive taxi, I’ve elected to travel tomorrow to Carlisle and stay with friends.

If that's the case, the operator who cancelled the service will need to compensate your hotel or taxi. You shouldn't be out of pocket or forced to change travel plan

 

[donald2007]

That’s all fine on paper. It’s like UK261. Try getting Ryanair to rebook you on BA. On the ground rights are a bit harder to obtain and unless you have a credit card most pax never obtain their rights.

National Rail enquiries states Carlisle ticket office is closed (exceptionally due to strike). That would mean paying out of pocket for a taxi and claiming it back. I’ve been burned before with Northern and they refused to pay.

I thought the most reasonable situation would not be a a taxi or hotel tonight but a bus tomorrow from Carlisle and not getting stuck at an unstaffed station. A bus is only necessary due to the strike. There are no rail replacement services tomorrow.

My train was 2N33 18:56 from Morpeth to Carlisle.

 

[DeverseSam]

The average passenger wouldn’t know about the minimum connection time, it seems likely that others were in the same position and the train would have been held for a couple of minutes

 

[donald2007]

The “average consumer” wouldn’t think Northern have to pay for a taxi either.

To go back to the point. Will I be OK to claim back the Stagecoach bus from Carlisle to Maryport tomorrow? In theory can I get a taxi?

 

[gray1404]

You will need to take this up with customer services.

 

[yorkie]

I am not convinced there is an automatic right to claim any additional fare back for travel tomorrow; you could have taken the next available services tonight and insisted that you were conveyed to your destination.

What was your originally booked itinerary?

 

[30907]

Please list the tickets held.

See post #4

 

[DeverseSam]

Looks to be a 6 minute connection, is that realistic from platform 5 to platform 2?

 

[donald2007]

Sure, but today is no ordinary day. Insisted to who? The conductor? Driver? BTP? When I used the live departures page on the NR site a message flags up to say Carlisle Ticket Office is closed (due to strike action I presume?).

I’ve done this all before. Even on non strike days. I’ve been stranded at CAR, MRY plenty of times and had to call on relatives to help. They run down the service so everyone avoids it then will cut it because no one uses it .

I’d have ended up booking my own taxi, paying it myself and trying to get the money back. It’s a fair chunk of money.

I’ve taken the reasonable decision to not get stranded at Carlisle at 22:00 and instead journey tomorrow. I’ve also got a bit of baggage with me that’s not too easy to lug about with haste.

I see many cancelled services tonight. Poor pax.

 

[yorkie]

The right to alternative transport absolutely did exist tonight, though.

You would only book your own taxi if all staff encountered refused to help, and no help point was available (or no help was forthcoming from the help point). There is also the option to contact Northern on Twitter (and we could have backed you up from the forum's account; or if you do not have an account we could have contacted Northern for you).

You chose instead not to travel and to travel today, knowing you can only get as far as Carlisle; I think that is fine to a point, but the onus is on you to pay for that alternative transport from Carlisle to Maryport personally.

 

[DeverseSam]

You chose instead not to travel and to travel tomorrow, knowing you can only get as far as Carlisle; that is fine

Are you sure the guard on 0734 tomorrow will agree?

 

[yorkie]

Are you sure the guard on 0734 tomorrow will agree?

I cannot be sure that any Guard would agree with anything I say, as the level of knowledge held by Guards, along with the level of pragmatism displayed by Guards is so variable!

But my view regarding validity is in line with post #5 above.

 

[DeverseSam]

I cannot be sure that any Guard would agree with anything I say, as the level of knowledge held by Guards, along with the level of pragmatism displayed by Guards is so variable!

But my view regarding validity is in line with post #5 above.

Thank you for clarifying. I am slightly concerned donald will try to travel in the middle of the day tomorrow, meet a RPI and then find himself posting in Disputes & Prosecutions!

 

[gray1404]

There is such an early shut down of the service tomorrow hopefully the focus will be on getting people to where they need to be.

 

[Watershed]

That’s all fine on paper. It’s like UK261. Try getting Ryanair to rebook you on BA. On the ground rights are a bit harder to obtain and unless you have a credit card most pax never obtain their rights.

National Rail enquiries states Carlisle ticket office is closed (exceptionally due to strike). That would mean paying out of pocket for a taxi and claiming it back. I’ve been burned before with Northern and they refused to pay.

I thought the most reasonable situation would not be a a taxi or hotel tonight but a bus tomorrow from Carlisle and not getting stuck at an unstaffed station. A bus is only necessary due to the strike. There are no rail replacement services tomorrow.

My train was 2N33 18:56 from Morpeth to Carlisle.

I completely understand where you're coming from, but unfortunately I don't think there is a solution whereby you can 'have your cake and eat it'. To be entitled to claim anything back you would have had to travel today and then, if stranded and refused assistance, booked your own taxi and reclaimed the cost of this. Whilst travelling tomorrow and reclaiming the cost of the bus results in a much lower expense, they're not obliged to agree to you doing this (and indeed, I don't think you would find it much easier reclaiming the cost of the bus fare tomorrow than the taxi fare today).

 

[Lemmy99uk]

The last Maryport service left 5 minutes late.

I assume it was held for the arrival of the last service off the Tyne Valley giving a 10 minute connection time.

 

[yorkie]

The last Maryport service left 5 minutes late.

I assume it was held for the arrival of the last service off the Tyne Valley giving a 10 minute connection time.

Agreed, so @donald2007 would have made it.

 

[gray1404]

It would be interesting to hear how the OP got on today.

I would hope they are allowed to travel to Carlisle and then have to get the bus at their own expense.

 

[30907]

The last Maryport service left 5 minutes late.

I assume it was held for the arrival of the last service off the Tyne Valley giving a 10 minute connection time.

Think it would have been held for a delayed London, but the point applies.

I would have been extremely surprised if CAR had had no duty supervisor at 2200, but the OP may have experienced otherwise.

 

[Hardcastle]

There was the 300 bus from Carlisle Bus Station at 2300 arriving Maryport 2359 as back up on that evening.

 

[chorleyjeff]

The average passenger wouldn’t know about the minimum connection time, it seems likely that others were in the same position and the train would have been held for a couple of minutes

Hold a train to wait for passengers off a non connecting train. You are surely joking.

 

[Starmill]

I’ve taken the reasonable decision to not get stranded at Carlisle at 22:00 and instead journey tomorrow.

The difficulty with this is that you have by doing so removed Northern's only opportunity to fulfill their end of the contract (your ticket purchase).

While I don't disagree with you on the basis of this being reasonable, if you want to rely on the rights the contract grants you, including alternative transport, you need to give Northern an opportunity to actually fulfil them.

You are entitled to complain to Northern about what happened and ask that they arrange for compensation in view of the cost of your bus ticket. However they may not be forthcoming with that.

 

[donald2007]

It all worked out in the end. From a work WhatsApp group a colleague noticed I was was in the Newcastle area and she was heading to Sellafield from Gateshead. I was able to hitch a lift. I'll refund the NR ticket.
I see my return on 27th is also cancelled due to "industrial action" so that's me back on the bus to CAR. I won't tell anyone this time, because they laugh at me for using the train and getting stuck or being late.
It's funny as among our group I am one of the few who stuck with the train, garnering ridicule. I have to concede they're right and its not worth the faff. I suspect many consumers will come to the same conclusion.

Funnily enough I was sorting out some paperwork while the turkey roasts away and I found an old letter from NR in 2019 denying my claim for a taxi due to strike action. The taxi receipt dropped out, £90, Carlisle to Sellafield. Sounds like I should go after them again? Statute gives me 6 years so I can always MCOL?

 

[Watershed]

It all worked out in the end. From a work WhatsApp group a colleague noticed I was was in the Newcastle area and she was heading to Sellafield from Gateshead. I was able to hitch a lift. I'll refund the NR ticket.

Glad to hear that.

It's funny as among our group I am one of the few who stuck with the train, garnering ridicule. I have to concede they're right and its not worth the faff. I suspect many consumers will come to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately I would have to agree. The unreliability means that more and more people are regarding the railway as a 'distress purchase', only to be used if there is no alternative.

Funnily enough I was sorting out some paperwork while the turkey roasts away and I found an old letter from NR in 2019 denying my claim for a taxi due to strike action. The taxi receipt dropped out, £90, Carlisle to Sellafield. Sounds like I should go after them again? Statute gives me 6 years so I can always MCOL?

This is highly situation dependent. We would need to know the full circumstances in order to be able to advise. However, in principle, the fact that there was a strike is not grounds for refusing alternative transport.

 

[Starmill]

I have to concede they're right and its not worth the faff. I suspect many consumers will come to the same conclusion.

Unfortunately no trains can really be relied upon during the current three weeks ish period of industrial action. Some routes will be better after 9 January.