GHA Coaches in Administration

[northwichcat]

There was a short GHA Solo broken down just before the A12 on the M25, this afternoon, heading towards Dartford, possibly off to Ensign?

One of GHA's baby Solo is apparently on display in Blackburn: https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/...0104/lot-40a7023b-7854-43f5-9e06-a65900ef77db The other baby one is DK09 ENV. I don't think anyone has confirmed that as being put up for sale yet so it could have been that one you saw.

Ensign have a GHA 30 seater Solo SR up for sale but I can't see any other GHA vehicles featured on their site: http://www.ensignbus.com/single-deckers.html

 

[the101]

There are quite a number of GHA-liveried coaches on Ensign's yard in Purfleet along with at least two Cheshire Connect-liveried original shape Solos. I don't know whether they are Ensign's own stock or being sold on behalf of a finance company.

 

[theblackwatch]

The story of the connection between RJ's of Wem/RML2418 and GHA Coaches has made the BBC website, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-37107975

Concerns have been raised that two brothers who ran a collapsed coach firm have bid to run some of its abandoned routes - under a different company.

GHA Coaches went into administration in July, with the loss of 320 jobs, after failing to pay a tax bill.

It operated services across north Wales, Cheshire and Shropshire.

Local councils are seeking new contractors to run the routes, but many passengers still face disruption.

Now it has been revealed GHA's former directors, Arwyn Lloyd Davies and his brother Gareth, are involved in two companies which have won contracts from Wrexham council to run eight former GHA services in the county borough.

 

[the101]

In yet another bizarre twist, and rather ironically given the current situation of 'son of GHA', a number of its former vehicles are for sale with Harrington Coaches. Harrington was a long-dormant company that retained its O-Licence and that was purchased by the people behind the former King Long Direct/Island Fortitude/whoever else shambles when it was in its death throes, and now the trading name is used as a coach sales outfit from Bakers' yard in Biddulph.

What a damning indictment of the industry the whole thing is. Don't go Beverley, you still have work to do!

 

[richw]

One of GHA's baby Solo is apparently on display in Blackburn: https://www.bidspotter.co.uk/en-gb/...0104/lot-40a7023b-7854-43f5-9e06-a65900ef77db The other baby one is DK09 ENV. I don't think anyone has confirmed that as being put up for sale yet so it could have been that one you saw.

Ensign have a GHA 30 seater Solo SR up for sale but I can't see any other GHA vehicles featured on their site: http://www.ensignbus.com/single-deckers.html

Although not on Ensigns website, this chap has on his Flickr stream photos of several vehicles at ensign from gha

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ryanbus/

 

[northwichcat]

Closing bids from today's auction of former GHA vehicles:

W471 WGH £4,800
W469 BCW £5,800
CN04 NLL £9,000
CN04 NLP £9,200
YJ06 YRL £9,800
CM03 GSM £19,250
CA07 GHA £23,000
DK09 ENW £25,000
FJ06 BNX £51,000
FJ06 BNY £51,000

I'm surprised a mini 09 reg Solo with 19 seats can sell for more than an 07 reg Centro with more than double the capacity.

 

[Observer]

£25,000 for an 09-plate Optare Solo is pretty much a steal. If a dealer bought that the price will be doubled in the end to another seller.

 

[the101]

I'm surprised a mini 09 reg Solo with 19 seats can sell for more than an 07 reg Centro with more than double the capacity.

I'm not. The Centro is an awful product that in Plaxton style of days gone was not put together very well at all. On the other hand, the very small Solos are rare on the second-hand market to say the least.

 

[ChrisPJ]

Depends on condition, mileage and MOT status. I notice a few of the above were out of test.

 

[northwichcat]

Depends on condition, mileage and MOT status. I notice a few of the above were out of test.

One of the 04 reg Darts was but it only sold for £200 less than the one which was up-to-date

 

[richw]

Closing bids from today's auction of former GHA vehicles:

W471 WGH £4,800
W469 BCW £5,800
CN04 NLL £9,000
CN04 NLP £9,200
YJ06 YRL £9,800
CM03 GSM £19,250
CA07 GHA £23,000
DK09 ENW £25,000
FJ06 BNX £51,000
FJ06 BNY £51,000

I'm surprised a mini 09 reg Solo with 19 seats can sell for more than an 07 reg Centro with more than double the capacity.

Mini Solos are highly sought after making them higher prices

 

[northwichcat]

Mini Solos are highly sought after making them higher prices

I can understand that and can see why some operators would really want a 19 seater opposed to a 25-30 seater. Although, I never understood why GHA put one of them in a Cheshire Connect livery. The Cheshire Connect livery was originally for Cheshire East council contracted services and was also used by Bowers/High Peak, Bakerbus and D&G. Cheshire East contracted services specify a minimum seating capacity and the majority of contracts GHA had required buses with between 23 and 35 seats meaning on most Cheshire East routes they were breaching the contract terms* if they used the mini Solo on those routes.

* Of course in an emergency a wrong size bus is better than cancelling the service so presumably the council will see that as the least worst option.

 

[the101]

You have no way of knowing if any of what you say about breaching contract terms and conditions is true. Stop posting your own opinion as fact.

 

[northwichcat]

You have no way of knowing if any of what you say about breaching contract terms and conditions is true. Stop posting your own opinion as fact.

Firstly I didn't say GHA did breach the contract terms - I said if.

However, as it sounds like you could be one of the failed GHA directors/managers, here's the evidence why I think you're wrong to claim that I don't know if GHA breached their contract terms:
1. The OJEU for the 88 route said a minimum 35 seats were required.
2. GHA frequently used 30 seater Darts to fill in for the Enviros. With the Enviros which were the regular vehicles for the route having 35 seats!
3. A local councillor who has seen the actual contracts and lives on the 88 route has confirmed the actual contract said 35 seats and wasn't modified after the OJEU.
4. I posted the above on Merseyside bus forum earlier in the year, where Stephen Byrce has an account. He pretty much always responded to anyone making false claims about GHA (or unverified claims which may have been true but were damaging to GHA's reputation) but he didn't post a response to my post. However, after I posted that the 30 seater Darts were suddenly replaced by the larger Plaxton Centros with over 35 seats. Coincidence or Mr Byrce realised people who knew the terms of the contract knew that GHA had breached them?

So what evidence do you have that I'm posting opinions as facts? If you don't have any can we accept that either you have no way of knowing that what I'm saying is incorrect but you want to defend GHA regardless or that you know what I'm saying is correct but you want to defend GHA's reputation by making false claims yourself?

 

[the101]

Firstly I didn't say GHA did breach the contract terms - I said if.

However, as it sounds like you could be one of the failed GHA directors/managers, here's the evidence why I think you're wrong to claim that I don't know if GHA breached their contract terms:
1. The OJEU for the 88 route said a minimum 35 seats were required.
2. GHA frequently used 30 seater Darts to fill in for the Enviros. With the Enviros which were the regular vehicles for the route having 35 seats!
3. A local councillor who has seen the actual contracts and lives on the 88 route has confirmed the actual contract said 35 seats and wasn't modified after the OJEU.
4. I posted the above on Merseyside bus forum earlier in the year, where Stephen Byrce has an account. He pretty much always responded to anyone making false claims about GHA (or unverified claims which may have been true but were damaging to GHA's reputation) but he didn't post a response to my post. However, after I posted that the 30 seater Darts were suddenly replaced by the larger Plaxton Centros with over 35 seats. Coincidence or Mr Byrce realised people who knew the terms of the contract knew that GHA had breached them?

So what evidence do you have that I'm posting opinions as facts? If you don't have any can we accept that either you have no way of knowing that what I'm saying is incorrect but you want to defend GHA regardless or that you know what I'm saying is correct but you want to defend GHA's reputation by making false claims yourself?

Is that really the best you can do? Just because I think that your 'facts' - besides the ones that you pick up from that most valuable source, Twitter - are often no more than your own opinion makes me something to do with GHA? That's laughable, and you need to try a lot harder...

For the record, I regarded GHA as a two-bit excuse for a bus operator and the industry as a whole is a lot better off for its passing.

Firstly I didn't say GHA did breach the contract terms - I said if.

Yes, you did say it, given that the whole argument is about a 19-seat Cheshire Connect-liveried bus being used on council tenders, which it clearly would be otherwise why would they spend money painting it into such a livery?. It's here:

...the majority of contracts GHA had required buses with between 23 and 35 seats meaning on most Cheshire East routes they were breaching the contract terms* if they used the mini Solo on those routes.

The majority of what you have posted concerning GHA is baseless opinion and unverifiable 'fact' - such as your claims regarding the part-ownership of the high-spec Enviro200s by one of the businesses served along the route. A lot of it has very often been arrived at by yourself by putting two and two together from various unreliable sources and then telling us that it's what happened.

Here is a tip for you: Local councillors often do not know as much as they think they do. What they say is often not accurate. Do not take it as gospel.

 

[northwichcat]

the101: Here is the OJEU for the new long term contracts for services which GHA used to run in Cheshire East: http://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:275313-2016:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=0 and here's the one for the two contracts which were up for renewal anyway even if GHA hadn't gone in to administration: http://england.unitedkingdom-tender..._8_2016_-_Local_Bus_Transport_OJEU_2016_Crewe

There might be some variation since the last contracts to GHA were issued (if passenger numbers have fallen or risen) plus GHA operated a couple of services commercially which no other operator has been willing to take on. How many times can you see "Minimum Vehicle Seating Capacity: 19"? I make it four times meaning there were probably 4 Cheshire East contracted routes GHA were permitted to use their 19 seater Solos on but there's a lack of daytime services as those are contracts for evening services where another operator runs daytime services commercially. I did see the 19 seater Solo being used on the 289 route and others reported it being used on the 200 service.

I've yet to see any evidence that the councillor who said Waters provided funding for the Enviro 200s was wrong. He didn't say if it was £5,000 of funding per bus or £100,000 of funding per bus but you've dismissed it as invalid without any evidence other than you don't trust councillors. The things we can say with certainty are Waters had to provide a lot of funding through a S106 agreement (for Cheshire East councillors to decide how it got spent) and a new site with 500 employees needs public transport links and it got public transport links through an enhanced 88 service which started at the same time as Waters opened it's site just outside Wilmslow.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I did see the 19 seater Solo being used on the 289 route and others reported it being used on the 200 service.

It is quite some while since I last travelled on the 289 from Altrincham to Pickmere. What are the average loadings like on this route at peak and off-peak periods?

 

[northwichcat]

It is quite some while since I last travelled on the 289 from Altrincham to Pickmere. What are the average loadings like on this route at peak and off-peak periods?

To be honest I'm not sure when the peak is for this bus. As it's infrequent it's not that useful for people working 9-5 jobs. At normal peak times it can be running with as few as 5 people on it. Possibly the first run in each direction after 09:30 on weekdays will be the busiest services due to the ENCTS holders being allowed to travel for free after 09:30 but I never see those services so don't know what the loadings are like. I have seen some buses arriving in Northwich with 20+ passengers on board but never seen that level of patronage in Knutsford or Altrincham.

 

[ag51ruk]

Ii think the small Solo was originally purchased for the Crewe Flexi Rider service (pre GHA), which is why it was in Cheshire Connect colours

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

One service from days long gone that used to link Cheshire East to Cheshire West was the X3 service from Manchester to Chester, via Manchester Airport and Ellesmere Port. I think it used the M56 as far as Preston Brook on a non-stop section. I remember seeing the buses being from the Arriva garage at Llandudno Junction from the small identifier script of the side of the bus.

Has any such service been considered in recent times?

 

[0lymp14n]

Ii think the small Solo was originally purchased for the Crewe Flexi Rider service (pre GHA), which is why it was in Cheshire Connect colours

As far as I am aware the small Solos DK09ENV/W were originally purchased for Denbighshire Fflecsi work. ENW succumbed to Cheshire Connect livery circa 2011.

 

[northwichcat]

Ii think the small Solo was originally purchased for the Crewe Flexi Rider service (pre GHA), which is why it was in Cheshire Connect colours

As far as I am aware the small Solos DK09ENV/W were originally purchased for Denbighshire Fflecsi work. ENW succumbed to Cheshire Connect livery circa 2011.

It might have been GHA had the intention of using the mini Solo on the Crewe Flexi Rider but I'm pretty sure all the vehicles acquired by the council for Flexi Rider services were white or silver minibuses with a set of double doors and a wheelchair lift at the rear, with no destination displays. Most of them are now with D&G Bus.

 

[6Gman]

One service from days long gone that used to link Cheshire East to Cheshire West was the X3 service from Manchester to Chester, via Manchester Airport and Ellesmere Port. I think it used the M56 as far as Preston Brook on a non-stop section. I remember seeing the buses being from the Arriva garage at Llandudno Junction from the small identifier script of the side of the bus.

Has any such service been considered in recent times?

The buses were almost certainly based from somewhere rather nearer to Chester than the Junction. The lettering referred to the registered address of the company HQ.

 

[Polarbear]

The buses were almost certainly based from somewhere rather nearer to Chester than the Junction. The lettering referred to the registered address of the company HQ.

I think we are talking about two separate services. There was an X3 from Chester to Manchester, routed via Ellesmere Port, Preston Brook, M56 to Manchester Airport, Wythenshaw, then Manchester. This operated roughly every two hours.

The other service was the "Airliner" X5 service operated by the erstwhile Crosville Wales for a brief period. This called at the normal stops along the former (L1) X1 route along the north wales coast. After Chester, it called at Chester Zoo then went direct to Manchester Airport.

The X3 was withdrawn, partially due to cost cutting, but also pressure from First as they objected to a council subsidised service running an (almost) identical route between Chester & Ellesmere Port.

The X5 only lasted for a short time as it was poorly conceived & loadings were poor.

 

[turboslug]

The x3 when operated by crosville wales was run from mold depot then chester when mold closed, shame this route went as i used it often between ellesmere port & manchester & it was good value

 

[northwichcat]

Some of the closing bids from today's auction of former GHA vehicles:

VT59 VLT £63,400
AA05 GHA £32,100
DK09 DZD £36,800
T314 OUX £2,020
FN09 APY £82,250
FN09 AMX £77,250
Y166 NLK £10,750
P4 GHA £3,350
N621 KUA £1,900
N606 FJO £1,320
H87 DVM £3,050
H74 DVM £2,950
LJI 8023 £2,740
X319 CBT £2,620
V395 KVY £3,320
YN03 UWL £3,240
N8 GHA (not including number plate): £1,820
7052 VT £6,520
YN03 NDF £5,850
YM52 TPX £5,100
MX58 KZE £35,100
MX58 KZF £40,000
AA56 GHA £26,100
SK52 UTT £3,150
BX54 VTM £9,100
R226 HCD £5,640

 

[0lymp14n]

N8GHA went for £3020 in the end.

I wonder which vehicles the GHA brothers repurchased.....??

 

[northwichcat]

N8GHA went for £3020 in the end.

My page mustn't have refreshed by the time 5 minutes was added to the end time if a last minute bid was placed.

I wonder which vehicles the GHA brothers repurchased.....??

Are there any financing companies who will give them a loan now by the time GHA took out loans in order to make repayments on loans?

 

[richw]

My page mustn't have refreshed by the time 5 minutes was added to the end time if a last minute bid was placed.



Are there any financing companies who will give them a loan now by the time GHA took out loans in order to make repayments on loans?

Not knowing exactly the details, but a new business may not be affected by the previous failings.
I know of another example where the same directors are running the new company, but they are fronting using a relative due to their previous failings.

 

[Robertj21a]

Not knowing exactly the details, but a new business may not be affected by the previous failings.
I know of another example where the same directors are running the new company, but they are fronting using a relative due to their previous failings.

Quite a few similar examples around the country I believe.