Given a transport for wales penalty fare for forgetting my indate railcard. What should i do?

[josephhughes85]

I just completely forgot it and the operator gave me one, im in england in the west midlands

I tried logging into the railcard website to show my railcard number etc but he refused, i tried buying a full ticket on top of my other one and he refused

Im trying to appeal but the website doenst load and i have been ringing transport investigations but they say they are the secondary appeal. The penalty services app doesnt load

The guy also wrote my name wrong on the ticket but the transport investigations has a photo of my ID with my actual name but the actual penalty fare is under a completely different name.

the far is £56. Im really freaking out as i dont want a criminal record, i just forgot my card and i have sent a photo of my card and appeal to transport investigations. Should i just pay? But i cant even pay it as their website doesnt load

On the railcard website it says ' If you forget your Railcard you will either be required to buy a new ticket or you may on certain services be liable for a Penalty Fare. However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens'

Im really worried its gonna ruin my life as i cannot appeal on their broken website and Transport for wales cannot answer my questions. Please can someone help

My grounds are that i forgot my rail card and it was a first time mistake and i do have a valid railcard. The issuer even said to use that to appeal as i would be successful.

'However, a train company will normally allow you to claim back this extra expense on the first occasion in each year where this happens'' This is frim the railcard FAQS of which i would fall under. This would be the first time i have ever made a mistake with it

I didnt travel with an expired or no railcard i just accidentally left the card at home. I cant even pay using their portal so im screwed in that regard

even failing that i just want to ask for clemency for a mistake. I have no reason to defraud them as i hold a valid railcard so i gain nothing forgetting it, i can provide proof i have a valid railcard

i cant use the penalty services website as it wont load, i have rang transport investigations who told me not to worry and seemed nice, and i will be sending my appeal to their email but i cannot even pay it on the website given. i feel screwed

Im not even sure why it was transport for wales as i was in birmingham, have never used them and the train itself was LNR so TFW have no involvement here

it returns an error when i use it, using my name or the wrong name on the notice. There is a postal address but since it happened earlier today i have not posted anything yet and wanted to do it online, the only phone number is an automated pay line. the postal address would be i asssume the same as appealing to peanlty services online
TFW gave me the number for transport investigations, who have a record of the notice mere minutes after with the incorrect name the operator has with the photo of my ID, i explained the situation to the lady who seemed more reassuring and said the appeal after penalty services goes to them, but the ticket references transport investigations as the payment website but that doesnt work either. For now i have sent proof of my railcard and screenshots of the error to ensure i have proof of trying to appeal and someone has record of my railcard
When i rang transport for wales they told me transport investigations were the ones to appeal to.

im trying to appeal as the issuer did say i should appeal and id be okay but icant do it on penalty services as their website wont load my notice. I hold a valid railcard and its the first time i forgot it

 

[reb0118]

Firstly, a penalty fare is merely that - a higher than normal fare issued to regulate travelling irregularities. There is no criminality implied by the issuance of a penalty fare and no requirement to disclose the fact that you have been issued one to anyone.

Secondly, there is generally a forgotten railcard amnesty scheme whereby you can claim back the cost of any new ticket purchased (including a penalty fare), or have an unpaid fares notice (or unpaid penalty fare) cancelled upon your sending acceptable proof of holding a valid railcard at the time in question.

Were you issued any paperwork?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum! Please can you upload copies of all the documentation you have been given relating to this. Do make sure you redact any personal information and case reference numbers before uploading.

We can then assist with what to do next.

 

[josephhughes85]

Firstly, a penalty fare is merely that - a higher than normal fare issued to regulate travelling irregularities. There is no criminality implied by the issuance of a penalty fare and no requirement to disclose the fact that you have been issued one to anyone.

Secondly, there is generally a forgotten railcard amnesty scheme whereby you can claim back the cost of any new ticket purchased (including a penalty fare), or have an unpaid fares notice (or unpaid penalty fare) cancelled upon your sending acceptable proof of holding a valid railcard at the time in question.

Were you issued any paperwork?

Hi I was given a penalty fare ticket which I will attach. It has details on the appeal process but the penalty services site doesn’t load and gets this error. TFW refer me to transport investigations who I’ve rang and sent proof of my railcard so I have a record of trying to appeal this.

Welcome to the forum! Please can you upload copies of all the documentation you have been given relating to this. Do make sure you redact any personal information and case reference numbers before uploading.

We can then assist with what to do next.

Hi. Attached is the ticket I got. I do have a valid railcard which I can send on request to them.

 

[AlterEgo]

Have you paid the penalty fare? You must do so straight away, and then seek a refund from the train company, as per the railcard terms and conditions. You cannot appeal the penalty fare successfully on this basis.

 

[josephhughes85]

No. I can’t pay using their portal as it won’t load.

Have you paid the penalty fare? You must do so straight away, and then seek a refund from the train company, as per the railcard terms and conditions. You cannot appeal the penalty fare successfully on this basis.

Is it a refund from transport investigations? I’m happy to do that and get it refunded. But I thought if I shown them proof of my railcard it could be cancelled

Have you paid the penalty fare? You must do so straight away, and then seek a refund from the train company, as per the railcard terms and conditions. You cannot appeal the penalty fare successfully on this basis.

also the ticket issuer assured me I’d win the appeal if I had a valid railcard which is why I complied. I’m kinda vulnerable so I’m a situation where I’d panic as an authority figure im inclined to trust him

 

[Titfield]

No. I can’t pay using their portal as it won’t load.


Is it a refund from transport investigations? I’m happy to do that and get it refunded. But I thought if I shown them proof of my railcard it could be cancelled


also the ticket issuer assured me I’d win the appeal if I had a valid railcard which is why I complied. I’m kinda vulnerable so I’m a situation where I’d panic as an authority figure im inclined to trust him

No, the way the system works is you pay the penalty fare and then you ask the TOC to refund the penalty fare.

Are you 100% sure you have entered the PF number correctly?

 

[josephhughes85]

No, the way the system works is you pay the penalty fare and then you ask the TOC to refund the penalty fare.

Are you 100% sure you have entered the PF number correctly?

So in this situation it seems I’m paying transport investigations who are the ones who enforce it for transport for wales. Do I then contact tfw?

And yes I am. On penalty services it doesn’t work. I’m using the name on the ticket ( that the operator entered wrong) and my real name. On transport investigations same thing I can’t pay online. Their automated phone line seems to do something but id rather do it online as id have evidence I’ve paid.

 

[WesternLancer]

So in this situation it seems I’m paying transport investigations who are the ones who enforce it for transport for wales. Do I then contact tfw?

And yes I am. On penalty services it doesn’t work. I’m using the name on the ticket ( that the operator entered wrong) and my real name. On transport investigations same thing I can’t pay online. Their automated phone line seems to do something but id rather do it online as id have evidence I’ve paid.

Have you tried paying it on line with another device in case something about your device is preventing the payment screen working?

 

[Spaceship323]

The penalty was issued Friday afternoon, is it just possible it won't be available to pay until it's entered into the system on Monday?

 

[josephhughes85]

Have you tried paying it on line with another device in case something about your device is preventing the payment screen working?

I tried looking for on my phone and both my PC and Mac. Nothing works. I shall be phoning transport investigations Monday to discuss it

 

[MotCO]

Are you able to use a different device to access the portal? Maybe your cookies or cache is playing tricks.

Looking at the number quoted on the rejection note (fifth picture), it quotes what I assume is your name and Penalty Fare Number. Are these details correct, since you also mention that the name details are wrong. Have you tried lower case and UPPER CASE in case it is case sensitive. Is it possible that you have actually paid the Penalty Fare at the time - the note says the surname in that case could be "Fully" or "Paid" - have you tried that?

The bottom line is that, unless you have forgotten your railcard on a previous occasion, you should be successful in your appeal. This forum gives good solid advice. Try not to worry.

 

[josephhughes85]

I’ve never forgotten my railcard. This is the first time.

The first name and surname on the ticket are actually wrong. The operator typed a completely wrong name but has a photo of my actual driving license. In the spirit of honesty I shall be appealing under my own name as that’s what my railcard is under. I’ve looked it up under this wrong name and my name and nothing comes up

The surname is actually Lloyd. Which isn’t my name and I’m assuming he took it from my bank card.

But I’ve tried different browsers and devices and it doesn’t work. Transport investigations said if it doesn’t work by Thursday one of the workers I’ve been speaking too will assist

The penalty was issued Friday afternoon, is it just possible it won't be available to pay until it's entered into the system on Monday?

Maybe. I’m just incredibly anxious and want to resolve it as soon as I can. I had panic attacks yesterday and couldn’t eat. I keep reading of court and stuff.

The penalty was issued Friday afternoon, is it just possible it won't be available to pay until it's entered into the system on Monday?

Probably the worst time to get one I think

 

[AlterEgo]

I’ve never forgotten my railcard. This is the first time.

The first name and surname on the ticket are actually wrong. The operator typed a completely wrong name but has a photo of my actual driving license. In the spirit of honesty I shall be appealing under my own name as that’s what my railcard is under. I’ve looked it up under this wrong name and my name and nothing comes up

The surname is actually Lloyd. Which isn’t my name and I’m assuming he took it from my bank card.

Congratulations on owning the bank, I guess.

Phoning them seems the best course of action. Unfortunately whoever filled out your penalty fare was incompetent and/or lazy. But, you should not let it bother you as much as it has. This will work out fine in the end.

 

[transportphoto]

I’m confused - whilst Transport for Wales operate a Penalty Fare scheme into Birmingham, they don’t operate to/from Tile Hill.

Which train company issued the penalty fare? This is more likely to be West Midlands Railway. This would explain the inability to pay/appeal via the TfW portal.

I note that this problem was acknowledged in the original post. There’s also what I believe to be a WMR logo on the reverse of the leaflet in the photo the OP has uploaded.

 

[josephhughes85]

I’m confused - whilst Transport for Wales operate a Penalty Fare scheme into Birmingham, they don’t operate to/from Tile Hill.

Which train company issued the penalty fare? This is more likely to be West Midlands Railway. This would explain the inability to pay/appeal via the TfW portal.

The penalty fare states transport for wales. I’ve been given nothing else that states another operator. If it was west mids I could actually phone them which would be easier. But I was in Birmingham new st at the time returning to tile hill

Congratulations on owning the bank, I guess.

Phoning them seems the best course of action. Unfortunately whoever filled out your penalty fare was incompetent and/or lazy. But, you should not let it bother you as much as it has. This will work out fine in the end.

I’ll be phoning transport investigations Monday. I think the name difference is throwing up the error.

I’m confused - whilst Transport for Wales operate a Penalty Fare scheme into Birmingham, they don’t operate to/from Tile Hill.

Which train company issued the penalty fare? This is more likely to be West Midlands Railway. This would explain the inability to pay/appeal via the TfW portal.

I note that this problem was acknowledged in the original post. There’s also what I believe to be a WMR logo on the reverse of the leaflet in the photo the OP has uploaded.

the WMR logo is on a separate thing not related to the ticket. I just keep it together with it

 

[transportphoto]

The penalty fare states transport for wales. I’ve been given nothing else that states another operator.

I don’t doubt you but thought it’d be wise to prompt the double check. I acknowledge the bottom of the TfW logo at the top of the receipt now I’ve looked in more detail. I’ve also highlighted areas on the leaflet you’ve photographed which refer to West Midlands Railway.

But I was in Birmingham new st at the time returning to tile hill

The penalty fare has been issued as if you had just got off of a train (exiting the station). Is this not the case?

 

[josephhughes85]

I don’t doubt you but thought it’d be wise to prompt the double check. I acknowledge the bottom of the TfW logo at the top of the receipt now I’ve looked in more detail. I’ve also highlighted areas on the leaflet you’ve photographed which refer to West Midlands Railway.


The penalty fare has been issued as if you had just got off of a train (exiting the station). Is this not the case?

That’s a seperate leaflet I got a couple days before from tile hill station ironically . Unrelated to this notice. I just keep the train stuff together if that makes sense

That’s a seperate leaflet I got a couple days before from tile hill station ironically . Unrelated to this notice. I just keep the train stuff together if that makes sense

This part is the stuff I got yesterday

I don’t doubt you but thought it’d be wise to prompt the double check. I acknowledge the bottom of the TfW logo at the top of the receipt now I’ve looked in more detail. I’ve also highlighted areas on the leaflet you’ve photographed which refer to West Midlands Railway.


The penalty fare has been issued as if you had just got off of a train (exiting the station). Is this not the case?

Well sort of but I was actually entering the gate to get the return journey. I hadn’t boarded any train yet. Hence why offered to buy a new ticket. I was stopped at the barrier. Maybe I should’ve been more assertive in asking that but I was scared.

 

[AlterEgo]

This Penalty Fare appears to have been issued by West Midlands Railway.

TFW would not issue a PF at Birmingham at the gateline.

What are the first 3 letters/digits of the reference?

 

[transportphoto]

Well sort of but I was actually entering the gate to get the return journey.

In which case the penalty fare appears to have been issued completely incorrectly.

The inspector has issued the penalty fare as if you had just completed a journey from Tile Hill to Birmingham New Street.

Are you able to evidence the times of your outbound journey (e.g. to New Street)?

Unless New Street is a compulsory ticket area, you had not boarded a train/similar without valid ticket at that point.

 

[josephhughes85]

This Penalty Fare appears to have been issued by West Midlands Railway.

TFW would not issue a PF at Birmingham at the gateline.

What are the first 3 letters/digits of the reference?

This is the letter prefix. That seems to be transport for wales

I was entering the gate from Birmingham new ST to get the train go home to tile hill

In which case the penalty fare appears to have been issued completely incorrectly.

The inspector has issued the penalty fare as if you had just completed a journey from Tile Hill to Birmingham New Street.

Are you able to evidence the times of your outbound journey (e.g. to New Street)?

Unless New Street is a compulsory ticket area, you had not boarded a train/similar without valid ticket at that point.

I had made a Journey into bham from tile hill but I got through the gate and at the time thought I had my railcard on me but I wasn’t asked to show it. This fare was issued when I was trying to get through the gate to Return home to tile hill I have evidence of my train bookings to and from home. It has barriers but I had not boarded a train at bham at the time of this fare issue

This is the letter prefix. That seems to be transport for wales

I was entering the gate from Birmingham new ST to get the train go home to tile hill


I had made a Journey into bham from tile hill but I got through the gate and at the time thought I had my railcard on me but I wasn’t asked to show it. This fare was issued when I was trying to get through the gate to Return home to tile hill I have evidence of my train bookings to and from home. It has barriers but I had not boarded a train at bham at the time of this fare issue

Transport investigations do seem to have this Under tfw however. But I hadn’t even boarded the return train when this fare was given.

 

[scrapy]

I've heard it takes up to 48 hours for your penalty to be loaded so you can appeal it. Don't panic maybe try again in a day or so.

 

[transportphoto]

I had made a Journey into bham from tile hill but I got through the gate and at the time thought I had my railcard on me but I wasn’t asked to show it. This fare was issued when I was trying to get through the gate to Return home to tile hill I have evidence of my train bookings to and from home.

What is the time difference between arriving in to Birmingham, and returning to leave again? Had you left the station, gone off into the city, etc?

We’ve probably a technical appeal point here which should completely void the penalty fare.

 

[AlterEgo]

I wonder if the machine was set up wrongly - can anyone shed any light on this?

 

[josephhughes85]

What is the time difference between arriving in to Birmingham, and returning to leave again? Had you left the station, gone off into the city, etc?

We’ve probably a technical appeal point here which should completely void the penalty fare.

I’d got to Birmingham from tile hill at around 12 ish as the train got delayed. I left at 3:36 hours later as I was seeing a movie and visiting the Lego store but took a later one due to the incident I’ve put the train booking below. But yes I arrived and then went into the city and hours later came back to get home It was a couple hours of me entering and returning. The penalty was given at the gate. I did offer to pay for a new ticket completely

What is the time difference between arriving in to Birmingham, and returning to leave again? Had you left the station, gone off into the city, etc?

We’ve probably a technical appeal point here which should completely void the penalty fare.

Adding to this the penalty fare itself has a completely wrong name. I handed the guy my ID but he’s put a completely wrong name on the ticket that isn’t mine.

 

[pedr]

Was this Penalty Fare issued at 2:33 p.m.? That’s what the document says but it sounds like that isn’t accurate either, and adds to the confusion or possibly something was wrong with the device being used.

 

[josephhughes85]

Was this Penalty Fare issued at 2:33 p.m.? That’s what the document says but it sounds like that isn’t accurate either, and adds to the confusion or possibly something was wrong with the device being used.

That’s when it was issued. However it is in the wrong name and I did give the operator a genuine driving license I entered the station early to wait for my train but given the incident I left at a later time

 

[pedr]

Ok. I was confused by the mention of a movie and shopping and an arrival in Birmingham around 12. Two and a half hours seemed a short time between arriving and then leaving again.

Did you perhaps scan/show the wrong ticket, using the Tile Hill to Birmingham ticket? There is still a lot that is strange about this. Can you confirm whether the barriers were open or if you used a ticket to get through them, and which side of the barriers you were when an inspector spoke to you?

All of this should be simple to sort out because they should accept a one-time forgetting of the railcard. But it might take a bit more work if this isn’t loaded into a system properly.

 

[josephhughes85]

Ok. I was confused by the mention of a movie and shopping and an arrival in Birmingham around 12. Two and a half hours seemed a short time between arriving and then leaving again.

Did you perhaps scan/show the wrong ticket, using the Tile Hill to Birmingham ticket? There is still a lot that is strange about this. Can you confirm whether the barriers were open or if you used a ticket to get through them, and which side of the barriers you were when an inspector spoke to you?

All of this should be simple to sort out because they should accept a one-time forgetting of the railcard. But it might take a bit more work if this isn’t loaded into a system properly.

I shown the Birmingham return ticket at the barriers and spoke to inspector on the entry side of the barriers

I did log in to the railcard website to show him my railcard number but he didn’t seem to understand it or thought I was faking. But I do have one.

 

[fandroid]

You are not helping us by continually repeating the same (or almost the same stuff) over and over again.
Calm down, there's plenty of time to get this resolved.
Try to give us an entirely clear account of what happened at the New Street ticket barrier. Answer the questions we pose, and no more, please. We should be able to sort this out but only if you don't bombard us with irrelevant stuff.