Glasgow Subway stabling Sidings (in system)

[daveyj81]

I've often wondered about the existence of tunnel sidings within the network, or whether any of the subway stations in Glasgow serve as overnight train stabling facilities.

London Underground's well-established practices of utilizing sidings and depots for train maintenance and storage might be a positive example for glasgow, so I wonder if a similar approach was ever adopted by SPT.

Have any of you come across evidence or knowledge of tunnel sidings within the history of the Glasgow Subway system? It's fascinating to imagine trains tucked away in the underground tunnels during non-operational hours. Whether this was a practice from the early days or a more recent development remains a mystery that we might uncover together.

Furthermore, I'm particularly interested to know if any of the subway stations in Glasgow presently store trains overnight. Given the limited space within the compact system, finding suitable locations for this purpose could pose a considerable challenge. This brings to mind the intriguing case of Broomloan Depot, with its known limited capacity for trains. How do they manage to accommodate the necessary maintenance and storage requirements within those constraints?

 

[Buzby]

I’m not aware of this being done on the Subway - all services started and ended in the old days either side of ‘the pit’ where the trains due for maintenance were lifted out, AIUI drivers clocked on and off at the Broomloan Depot. The inner and outer circles were just that, no sidings and at that time no crossover. After modernisation sidings were built at ground level with run-in and run-out access from the outer circle and crossovers to get to the inner. I’m unaware nowadays of trains being left in the tunnels as it would be a pain for maintenance inspections, Book 1 of Quail Track Diagrams (P9) shows how simple the route is.

 

[daveyj81]

I’m not aware of this being done on the Subway - all services started and ended in the old days either side of ‘the pit’ where the trains due for maintenance were lifted out, AIUI drivers clocked on and off at the Broomloan Depot. The inner and outer circles were just that, no sidings and at that time no crossover. After modernisation sidings were built at ground level with run-in and run-out access from the outer circle and crossovers to get to the inner. I’m unaware nowadays of trains being left in the tunnels as it would be a pain for maintenance inspections, Book 1 of Quail Track Diagrams (P9) shows how simple the route is.

Thanks a for sharing your knowledge. It's really interesting to hear about how things used to be back in the day. So, if I got it right, all the services used to start and end at the Broomloan Depot, where they lifted out the trains for maintenance. That's pretty cool!
It seems like in the past, there weren't any sidings or crossovers, and the inner and outer circles were just separate with no stabling options. But after the modernization, they added ground-level sidings with access from the outer circle and crossovers to reach the inner. That must have improved the flexibility of the system.

Now, here's where I'm curious. In many other metro systems across Europe, they use station stabling overnight to make sure they can start running services early in the morning. Even some commuter lines in Glasgow do this. Do you think it could be a possibility for the Glasgow Subway? I mean, it would be great to have those early morning services available for commuters, right?

I'd love to hear from other folks in this forum who might have more info or thoughts on this. Let's keep this chat going and explore whether overnight station stabling could be a game-changer for Glasgow Subway.

 

[pdeaves]

I mean, it would be great to have those early morning services available for commuters, right?

The full circle is sufficiently small that starting/ending at depot really makes no difference. It's something like 25 minutes to get all the way round and back again, so it really is simple to start at depot each day (and as Buzby said, tunnel maintenance is simplified this way as well).

 

[Buzby]

If memory serves me, they usually quoted timings for the first/last train at both Govan Cross and St Enoch - I spent a few overnights as a guest (walking the tunnels, looking at the Scotland Street cableway etc). They had a battery locomotive that could (barely) make a circuit as a result unless there was serious trackwork taking place the current was kept on! There was also a pre-1st train as staff were often delivered to their duty points opening the station from the inside (as it were) in readiness for service. Adverts on the opposite walls to the platform - they were all islands - were changed at night. Of note was one from a Glasgow Hypnotist called Joel Sneader. HIS claim to fame, apart from helping you to stop smoking, fingernail chewing and alcohol lust, was that he had a quarto add at each of the 15 stations on the circle. What was different, was he changed his middle initial- it was Joel A Sneader at St Enoch, Joel B Sneader at Bridge Street and so on. I assume if customers saw his advert, he’d enquire which name so he could gauge which stations worked best!

 

[Taunton]

I’m not aware of this being done on the Subway - all services started and ended in the old days either side of ‘the pit’ where the trains due for maintenance were lifted out, AIUI drivers clocked on and off at the Broomloan Depot. The inner and outer circles were just that, no sidings and at that time no crossover. After modernisation sidings were built at ground level with run-in and run-out access from the outer circle and crossovers to get to the inner. I’m unaware nowadays of trains being left in the tunnels as it would be a pain for maintenance inspections, Book 1 of Quail Track Diagrams (P9) shows how simple the route is.

I knew the final years of the "old" subway. There were no points on the system at all, not only were the two circles isolated, but the depot was just a series of stub tracks which the crane at the "pit" would place cars on. The crane could also rotate the cars depending on which circle they were for. The fleet was larger than the track space in the depot so some were always in the tunnel. They could actually do a changeover of a car during the service; passengers put off at previous station, new vehicle dropped down ahead of it and moved into the tunnel, train comes forward to the pit and stops, uncoupled, front car lifted up, rear car pushed forward and attached. On they go. Apparently less than 5 minutes needed - so said an actual Subway handout.

They did indeed normally park overnight just either side of the pit, the first train started round in the morning, hopefully by the time it had got back round all the others had managed to start as well. The trains were parked buffered up, as in the tight tunnels there was no other way for the driver to get to the front one apart from going through them all. The issue was when the works loco, and its wagons, needed to be used overnight, there were a range of patterns for what you did to keep out of its way, which could include parking all on one side, or even running the whole fleet of one circle right round. There was no other access, all the rails, sleepers, concrete, tools etc had to go in this way.

What is there now is a complete reversal, far more stabling than needed, including the mile-long outside test track along an old railway alignment that just happened to pass the depot building.

 

[Buzby]

Yes, it was an impressive operation - I did witness a carriage swap and it was around 4 minutes, including lifting the floor hatch to connect the pin that linked the leading and trailing cars and off it went. The crane driver was the star…. The process of walking through the stabled carriages was a tedious chore, making use of all the centre end doors, you didn’t need to count them, you just kept walking till there was no train in front of you! I’ve not been back at the depot since the old wooden trains were retired, but a recent trip on the inner circle between Buchanan and Partick was painful - the noise from the track made my smart watch provide a hearing warning (of potential deafness!)

I wonder if the new fleet will be any quieter?

 

[Taunton]

The old trains in their final years were absolute classics, fully wooden bodied, like a greenhouse on wheels. Flexing had developed with the side walls and sometimes gaps would appear as you rolled along, I remember wondering if the window glass ever fell out. The crews at the end, around 1977, all looked up for retirement, and I believe were principally from the city tramways which had finally closed 15 years before.

There were a range of breakdowns in the final years, but Glaswegians are a resourceful lot, and would then just go round on the opposite circle.

 

[Elwyn]

I lived in Byres Road in 1971/72 (Hillhead stop) and I do recall that sometimes one circle would be out of use (for reasons that were not necessarily fully explained). You sometimes just went the other way instead as it wasn’t all that much further.