Glass covers on passenger alarms-good idea or not?

[GW43125]

I've noticed on the new Desiro City stock (70x) that all passenger communication alarms have a glass panel covering them, which must be broken in order to activate the alarm.

I can see the merit in this, in that it may be enough of a barrier to reduce "malicious activations", however in the situations where you may really need it the most (eg someone's trapped in the door and the train's set off), it can lose you precious seconds. There's also the worry that some people might not want to break a glass panel for fear of getting injured-what are your thoughts?

 

[FGW_DID]

Surely it’s no different to fire alarms having covers.

It’s sugar glass, like what they use in the movies when jumping through windows and smashing bottles over peoples heads.

Do you really think they would use something that might cut someone to shreds should the need to use it happen.

 

[acned]

Surely it’s no different to fire alarms having covers.

It’s sugar glass, like what they use in the movies when jumping through windows and smashing bottles over peoples heads.

Do you really think they would use something that might cut someone to shreds should the need to use it happen.

It may be sugar glass but it still cut my hand in several places when I had cause to use the alarm on a 313 unit ten years ago.

 

[LowLevel]

Not all emergency panel covers are sugar glass. I've still got the scars from the first time I broke into the cupboard on a 156 - blood everywhere!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bad idea. People should not be put off using them in valid situations, particularly now they don't stop the train.

There is probably a case for having it over the door release, though, as the circumstances under which a passenger should use that are only really when what is going on in the train is far more of a threat than a cut hand, given that in almost every situation remaining on the train is safest.

 

[Domh245]

It doesn't have to even be a "Break Glass" cover - it could be as simple as a flap or something that slides out of the way (as often seen on LU) - but I think that there should be something in place to prevent accidental pressing of the alarm

 

[Skie]

Modern ones arent even glass, nor do they "break". It's simply a peice of plastic with a score down the middle, so that when pressed it simply bends and activates the button underneath. To reset them you just pop the panel open, click the plastic flat again and seal it all up good as new.

Of course people still think breaking the glass is this huge thing so they are less inclined to do it.

 

[alxndr]

No if the glass breaks and the train becomes unmovable until a replacement is found. If it just bends then I'm indifferent as to whether it's there or not.

 

[MG11]

The legal implications of mis-use should be severe enough to deter misuse. EMT are now no longer replacing the 'glass' on their vestibule ones. I guess if someone is trapped in the doors and at risk of being crushed by a 200 ton train like a pizza cutter slicing through dough, then every second does count.

 

[STKKK46]

It may be sugar glass but it still cut my hand in several places when I had cause to use the alarm on a 313 unit ten years ago.

Aye, but you HAD to use it so therefore what’s a cut hand?

Hate to be a do-gooder but you can’t really moan about a cut if the reason to use the alarm was serious enough to use it...

 

[GW43125]

Modern ones arent even glass, nor do they "break". It's simply a peice of plastic with a score down the middle, so that when pressed it simply bends and activates the button underneath. To reset them you just pop the panel open, click the plastic flat again and seal it all up good as new.

Of course people still think breaking the glass is this huge thing so they are less inclined to do it.

You’ll have a job as the strike point is above the carriage key reset point, not the actual button

 

[mark-h]

It is not sugar glass which would be expensive, very brittle and go soft quickly due to the humidity in the air.

A simple cover (making activation of the alarm a two stage process), may be enough to deter inappropriate use.

Alarms that need pulled (rather than being pushed) are probably less likely to be accidentally set off.

 

[acned]

Aye, but you HAD to use it so therefore what’s a cut hand?

Hate to be a do-gooder but you can’t really moan about a cut if the reason to use the alarm was serious enough to use it...

Oh yes, I had good reason to use it old bean, I was the victim of an attempted robbery and had just been beaten up, so yeah, what were a few more cuts after that, eh?
Good job as well I am not a haemophilliac!

 

[randyrippley]

Surely it’s no different to fire alarms having covers.

It’s sugar glass, like what they use in the movies when jumping through windows and smashing bottles over peoples heads.

Do you really think they would use something that might cut someone to shreds should the need to use it happen.

I've cut my hand twice punching fire alarms.
The third time I kicked it instead and the whole device came off the wall.......

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh yes, I had good reason to use it old bean, I was the victim of an attempted robbery and had just been beaten up, so yeah, what were a few more cuts after that, eh?
Good job as well I am not a haemophilliac!

Quite - there are plenty of uses for it that do not justify a need for personal injury.

I would concede to glass over the door release, though, given that (a) it should only be used when there is immediate and pressing risk to life and limb, and (b) misusing it can result in death, unlike the passcom.

 

[KAD]

I don't think it's a good idea. I don't think people should feel deterred from using them when there is a real emergency. I have been a train driver for 5 years and the emergency cord has been operated 4 times on my trains - 3 of those were for real emergencies and once was deliberate misuse. So in my own experience, deliberate misuse is not that common.

 

[LowLevel]

I don't think it's a good idea. I don't think people should feel deterred from using them when there is a real emergency. I have been a train driver for 5 years and the emergency cord has been operated 4 times on my trains - 3 of those were for real emergencies and once was deliberate misuse. So in my own experience, deliberate misuse is not that common.

Lucky you. I'm a guard and every single occasion has been down to drunks, malicious activations or mistakes and I'm well into double figures.

Bit tedious when you work old traction where it dumps the brakes as it's invariably somewhere inconvenient like the throat at Man Picc.

 

[bengley]

Several inaccuracies in this thread.

On the 700s it IS glass. The glass, however, is laminated on the side you touch - thus the glass remains in tact, albeit cracked, when pressed. There is no risk of getting cut when using the alarms on a 700.

The train can remain in service with a broken glass over the passcom, though most drivers aren't aware there are a pack of spare glasses behind the panel so can easily be replaced at the time a broken glass is found. I always replace them myself to save the hassle of reporting it.

In a genuine emergency you will not lose any time because of the glass - you can simply press the glass and the button in one action.

And to add my two cents - yes. It is a good idea to have glass covering it because a significant number of passcoms, particularly in the late evening, are unnecessary, malicious or because 'I missed my stop'.

 

[sjoh]

Try using an elbow in future. It's worked for me with no injury on the rare occasions I've had need to operate an emergency alarm of some sort.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Try using an elbow in future. It's worked for me with no injury on the rare occasions I've had need to operate an emergency alarm of some sort.

I remember one of my parents suggesting that if I ever needed to "break glass" for something I should remove my shoe and use that.

 

[sjoh]

I remember one of my parents suggesting that if I ever needed to "break glass" for something I should remove my shoe and use that.

I suspect though that in case of emergency removing a shoe may be a little more cumbersome than a quick elbow jab

Alternatively, I've heard of people using the sharp end of a key to focus pressure on a small area, and giving that a whack.

 

[edwin_m]

Always used to amuse me on the Mk3s when the hammer to break the windows in emergency was mounted behind a piece of glass.

 

[700007]

The 315s lot are behind a clearly signed red flap that is easy to 'break' but at the same time deters people accidentally or purposefully setting it off. I quite like this system and it's safer than glass, whether proper or sugar.

 

[al78]

Try using an elbow in future. It's worked for me with no injury on the rare occasions I've had need to operate an emergency alarm of some sort.

That should work, or put your hand inside the sleeve of your clothing before striking the glass.

 

[muz379]

I dont support covering passcoms in glass , these should be easily accessible and usable with no delay . The ramifications of having a delay in their operation in my view are far more severe than the odd occasion of misuse .

Emergency door release valves/handles should be covered in covered in some way though in my view . The ramifications of misuse are more severe than a short delay when they are needed to be used . Some units wont allow them to be used unless below a certain speed anyway and if the situation on the train is so severe then a piece of glass wont discourage legitimate use .

As a guard I also had to break into the emergency equipment cupboard on a train once . I made sure passengers kept clear of the area ,looked away and smashed the glass with my T key like a mini hammer . There was still jagged glass surrounding the hole you had to put your hand through to reach the handle which I cleared with a piece of folded up paper pushing it all in . The thing did have the potential to cause serious cuts though had I not cleared the jagged glass I would certainly be wary about administering first aid or dealing with off train emergencies if I had sustained cuts from the jagged glass .

 

[Crossover]

The passcoms by the doors on 185's are not covered and I have both heard of and witnessed them being activated accidentally by someone leaning on them if stood by the door (which as anyone who uses 185's will attest, is a near certainty on quite a few services due to how full they are!) - something covering them would likely prevent this happening