Glen Sannox on sea trials - Now handed over - and in use!

[Buzby]

Big question is what do we all think is going to happen on Monday?

Well - I’m booked for a crossing on 13th (Troon-Brodick) so hopefully, it’ll be a go-er. If not, then an interesting day out regardless. GS hadn’t resumed its ‘shadow service’ and is still moored in Gourock Dock, so fingers crossed!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I personally I think the reason the SNP are more to blame here than say with HS2, is a) building ferrries is (or should be) far simpler, for example how many other recent examples of similar sized ships have been this late and this over budget? Pentland Ferries paid £14 million for the slightly smaller MV Alfred in 2017, the bigger Manxman 3 was £78 million in 2021. Both ships were in service within three years of being ordered. Remind me again how much Glen Sannox and Glen Rosa cost and how late they are?

Approaching £400 million for the two, instead of £97m. First steel cut in 2016, keel laid 2017, the ferry was originally expected to enter service early in 2018.

In the normal circumstances, the procurement process would last about 4 years between the intitial announcement of a new ferry to be built, and her entry into service. Indeed this had been the case with the two previous large newbuild vessels; Finlaggan and Loch Seaforth, both built by foreign yards.

MV Alfred is being leased at £1m per month since May 2023, so that's 20 months and counting. Someone's laughing all the way to the bank. Source: Ships of the Fleet.

 

[HSTEd]

They chose a fuel that supported emissions reduction. Sticking with pure diesel wasn't a viable option, and the need to bring LNG up from England by road was recognised when the choice was made.

At the time that was made, it was (perhaps naively) hoped that there would be other ships using LNG coming along shortly thereafter, making supply easier - but that wasn't an essential component. I've seen much bigger ships receive fuel from road tankers!

I'm honestly not clear why LNG was selected over other possible fuels.
LPG has most of the air quality advantages of LNG and, by some calculations, lower life cycle emissions.

 

[ninja-lewis]

The media are just reporting, albeit each with their individual political slant, what has happened, namely;

The ferries are years late entering service;
Dates for this have come and gone with monotonous frequency;
They have cost many millions more than the original price, and;
They cannot even dock at their planned mainland port.

And, notwithstanding the turmoil mentioned elsewhere, this was all under the auspices and control of one party. So it is not surprising that they are held responsible!

A few other issues:

Ferguson Marine was bought by a prominent Yes supporter with the backing of the Scottish Government.
During the tender process Ferguson Marine was given unfair advantages in information.
Their tender was chosen despite being neither the best nor the cheapest (the most expensive in fact)
Ferguson Marine were hurriedly given the contract so that it could be announced by SNP ministers despite warnings that Ferguson Marine could not provide the required financial guarantees. It quickly proved that they had neither expertise, systems or facilities to design and manufacture these ships - e.g. the original bulbous bow.
The First Minister was more than happy to turn up for the launch of Glen Sannox with the painted on windows and fake funnels to disguise lack of progress. By contrast they wanted nothing to do with the launch of Glen Rosa.
Throughout the process CMAL and Transport Scotland ignored representations from islands for multiple, smaller ferries for higher frequency and better resilience in favour of these two large vessels. Hull 802 will no longer serve the the Big triangle.

 

[Indigo Soup]

I'm honestly not clear why LNG was selected over other possible fuels.
LPG has most of the air quality advantages of LNG and, by some calculations, lower life cycle emissions.

I'm not an alternative fuels expert - but LNG was the preferred low-emission fuel of the marine industry for some time. It probably looked like a fairly low risk option.

These days, with GHG emissions becoming a higher priority, LNG (with associated methane slip) doesn't look all that great any more. The future is looking like a combination of batteries for short crossings, and either methanol or ammonia as a hydrogen store for longer stuff.

 

[mpthomson]

Absolutely Ferguson could build ferries but they had no experience of LNG. The only yard that had built LNG ferries was in Poland. In terms of governments only making political decisions building a conventional ferry to a conventional design with a competitive tender isn’t really a political decision. But choosing to build one to an unconventional design to fit a ‘green’ policy* becomes one. Choosing a home shipyard with no experience over a foreign one that has a proven track record is a political decision.

*I have no issues with governments making positive environmental decisions and personally I drive an EV for example and am looking to change my gas boiler to a heat pump. However even if the ships had been on budget and on time, there are still question marks here. The ships require diesel when navigating into and out of Adrossan and Brodick and are LNG when at sea. That’s completely the wrong way round, especially for a short route such as this! The diesel fumes will cause a direct health impact on folk living and working in those towns, and let’s face it we’ve all seen the black filth that comes out of ferries when they are manoeuvring in port etc.

The irony is that Cemre, the yard thats building the four ferries, is a world leader in bi-fuel and hybrid production. The reality is and was that there was nothing novel or innovative about the propulsion systems for these ferries (70% of current commercial orders use some form of it and there are many hybrid vessels out there of all sizes) and it wasn't those that caused most of the delays. They were caused by such things as FM having to entirely rebuild the bow section as it wasn't built to the correct spec, the vessel not being designed with enough emergency stairwells etc

 

[Noddy]

The irony is that Cemre, the yard thats building the four ferries, is a world leader in bi-fuel and hybrid production. The reality is and was that there was nothing novel or innovative about the propulsion systems for these ferries (70% of current commercial orders use some form of it and there are many hybrid vessels out there of all sizes) and it wasn't those that caused most of the delays. They were caused by such things as FM having to entirely rebuild the bow section as it wasn't built to the correct spec, the vessel not being designed with enough emergency stairwells etc

I think you might be conflating the more recent orders (in March 2022) for two conventional diesel ferries for the Islay service and a second order (in early 2023) for two more identical ships, with the order for Glen Sannox and its sister (802/Glen Rosa) we are discussing.

It’s crazy to think that the order for the ‘Isle of Islay’ was over 7 years after the Glen Sannox, but there is still an outside chance the Isle of Islay will be in service first, despite itself being slightly late.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the 2022 and 2023 builds are a success I can see them going back to the same yard for more.

 

[43055]

According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website, the service from Ardrossan will resume on 28 March 2025.

That's good news, it's strange that Calmac doesn't keep Isle of Arran running from Ardrossan to bridge the gap.

I believe some alterations need to take place for the 'Glens' to be able to run from Ardrossan. It sounds like the Isle of Arran is lined up to help on other routes for the rest of the winter timetable whilst other vessels are overhauled.

 

[Southsider]

She’s still moored at Inchgreen, hopefully OK for Monday.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Will know soon enough, they'll be wanting to move her tomorrow if they're hoping to start service with her on Monday

 

[318266]

The ferry has now departed for Troon, arrival estimated by marinetraffic to be 11:40. Could it be running the 12:45? Comparative to other transport modes I know little about how much time it would need.

 

[Southsider]

The ferry has now departed for Troon, arrival estimated by marinetraffic to be 11:40. Could it be running the 12:45? Comparative to other transport modes I know little about how much time it would need.

According to reports this morning, one deck will be cordoned off out of use when she enters service. Hope it’s not the car deck!

EDIT. It‘s one of the mezzanine car decks. Hopefully not too big a deal at this time of year.

 

[Blindtraveler]

More likely it will sit there for the rest of the day and commence service tomorrow as expected. Looking forward to some trip reports and maybe even some videos if anyone takes any

 

[318266]

The Calmac booking site, whilst it now won't let me book, is reporting the 1245 as the first Glen Sannox sailing. Good thing I'm on the train!

 

[Southsider]

She has just run a full passenger and vehicle service from Troon to Brodick!

 

[318266]

I took the opportunity to be the first passenger to set foot on board - despite the long wait, I will say that the onboard experience was faultless. Food is pricy, but very good - the observation deck is comfortable with floor to ceiling windows. There is also a compartment, as I call it, on the same deck which is quiet and good for relaxing.

The first run had a mind-boggling 38 passengers - the return quite a bit more as it is the last of the day! It should cope with tomorrow, I imagine. Nice to have a first sailing that is calm and quiet for once!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good to hear something positive
Is the food operation wildly different to what we previously seen justifying the price increase or is it just the usual standard markup on onboard food and drink that we've come to expect

 

[Buzby]

Well it was mayhem on the first official sailing - a full terminal building waiting room and free CalMac flags for passengers and school parties. Just leaving Troon at 1100 and the ship is stunning as well as comfortable - highly recommended!

 

[mpthomson]

I think you might be conflating the more recent orders (in March 2022) for two conventional diesel ferries for the Islay service and a second order (in early 2023) for two more identical ships, with the order for Glen Sannox and its sister (802/Glen Rosa) we are discussing.

It’s crazy to think that the order for the ‘Isle of Islay’ was over 7 years after the Glen Sannox, but there is still an outside chance the Isle of Islay will be in service first, despite itself being slightly late.

Not conflating anything. The point I'm making is that 801/2 would have been far better ordered from Cemre as they had the skillset to build the vessels. FM clearly didn't.

According to reports this morning, one deck will be cordoned off out of use when she enters service. Hope it’s not the car deck!

EDIT. It‘s one of the mezzanine car decks. Hopefully not too big a deal at this time of year.

One of the outside passenger areas too. Good to see it finally in service though.

 

[Noddy]

Not conflating anything. The point I'm making is that 801/2 would have been far better ordered from Cemre as they had the skillset to build the vessels. FM clearly didn't.

As LNG yes probably. Or Remontowa which was the only yard at the time they were ordered that had built any LNG ferries. I do think if the SNP/ministers had chosen to order conventional diesel ferries I think Fergusons would have done a better job as they would have fully understood what they were doing from the outset, which might have resulted in them not cutting corners and having to rebuild bits because stuff didn’t fit or they had no money to do it right. It might have still gone wrong, but I suspect it would have be far less wrong.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some good coverage here, including a fly-through of the ship.

Glen Sannox: Scotland's ferries saga ship to finally set sail

The MV Glen Sannox is to make its first scheduled passenger voyage between Troon and Arran early on Monday.

www.bbc.co.uk

MV Glen Sannox - which was meant to be delivered almost seven years ago - is the first new large vessel to join the UK's largest ferry fleet in nearly a decade.
It made its first scheduled journey between Troon in South Ayrshire and Brodick on Arran before dawn, coping with rough conditions that kept other ships in port.
The vessel will make three return sailings each day, with the journey lasting 75 minutes, helping to end years of uncertainty on one of Caledonian MacBrayne's busiest routes.

• Live as it happened: Glen Sannox on first official sailing

• Why was Glen Sannox so hard to build?

With space for 127 cars and 852 passengers, Glen Sannox brings much-needed extra capacity for the state-owned ferry operator which has struggled in recent years to maintain services with ageing and increasingly unreliable vessels.
The orders for the dual-fuel ships Glen Sannox and its sister vessel Glen Rosa, were placed with the Ferguson shipyard in Port Glasgow nearly a decade ago.
But acrimonious disputes over the design challenges and claims for extra costs saw the shipyard fall into administration and nationalised in 2019.
The ships have ended up costing more than four times the £97m contract price and sparked arguably the longest running political row of the devolution era.

 

[Albaman]

Well it was mayhem on the first official sailing - a full terminal building waiting room and free CalMac flags for passengers and school parties. Just leaving Troon at 1100 and the ship is stunning as well as comfortable - highly recommended!

Thanks for your report and photos.

The BBC evening news had extensive coverage of the event which was largely positive . It would have been interesting if future of Ardrossan as the main land terminal had been discussed/clarified.

 

[Buzby]

The BBC evening news had extensive coverage

There was certainly BBC overkill - Radio, Plus Scotland and Network TV (complete with live feeds from the upper deck). If STV was there I didn’t spot them, but there was so much photography from others it was hard to miss. Perhaps the were hoping for something more newsworthy?

 

[EMU303]

There was certainly BBC overkill - Radio, Plus Scotland and Network TV (complete with live feeds from the upper deck). If STV was there I didn’t spot them, but there was so much photography from others it was hard to miss. Perhaps the were hoping for something more newsworthy?

Probably hoping it wouldn’t go to plan

 

[AndrewE]

Probably hoping it wouldn’t go to plan

I'm very pleased that it did!

 

[Meole]

Interesting the gas fuel comes from Dover by truck as rail declined the opportunity.

 

[Cloud Strife]

It would have been interesting if future of Ardrossan as the main land terminal had been discussed/clarified.

The latest information that I have is that there's nothing new. Peel won't spend the money on the rebuild that Ardrossan needs to accommodate 801/802, CalMac don't have the money, CMAL won't get involved unless Peel sell the port and infrastructure to them at a normal price (i.e. a low price, because nothing else wants to use Ardrossan anyway), and the Scottish Government see that Troon is willing to offer a very good deal to keep the Arran run permanently.

The problem is that it's very hard to justify the huge spend needed on Ardrossan without taking ownership of the port, especially when Troon can easily accommodate both of the new Arran vessels. Given that Peel have been absolutely catastrophic in terms of port management for CalMac, there's also an argument that it would be irresponsible to trust them with a new terminal when they allowed the Irish Berth to fall to pieces.

I think Fergusons would have done a better job as they would have fully understood what they were doing from the outset, which might have resulted in them not cutting corners and having to rebuild bits because stuff didn’t fit or they had no money to do it right.

My feeling is that Fergusons were doomed from the beginning, as they simply didn't have the experience or knowledge to do it.

 

[Falcon1200]

Peel won't spend the money on the rebuild that Ardrossan needs to accommodate 801/802, CalMac don't have the money, CMAL won't get involved unless Peel sell the port and infrastructure to them at a normal price (i.e. a low price, because nothing else wants to use Ardrossan anyway), and the Scottish Government see that Troon is willing to offer a very good deal to keep the Arran run permanently.

As a matter of interest, if Peel did spend money in Ardrossan to accommodate larger ferries, how would they expect to recover that investment?

 

[Buzby]

how would they expect to recover that investment?

By the modern-day equivalent of ‘pier dues’ - they are permitted to seek recompense for their investment. It’s bow all factored in to ticket prices.