Go North East

[P410CCU]

IIRC in the mid to late 90s Go North Easts North Tyneside division “Coastline” were making more of an effort putting the new vehicles on their own 300 / 305 routes moving them over to being Easy Access with Excels. Then they started messing about with the routes themselves (merging / splitting the 300 with the North Shields Town Services and the 305 being pruned back to just Newcastle to Hadrian Park then being thrown in with a varying route number or joined into a new brand every couple of years).
Go North Easts distain for the 308 showed in later years when their services were moved to the “Bargain Bus” brand before selling the Ashington depot (which they gained from buying Northumbria Coaches) in 2010 to Arriva and thus the 308 went to 100% Arriva.

That being said on the Arriva side the Cityzens and the ex 602 Olympians were comfortable for the 308 but after that it took a bit of a dive for a while

As always I’m possibly completely wrong

GNE originally ordered the ELC Lolynes for the 301 & 305. It was around 2002 however when 3828-31 ended up replacing Optare Spectras on the X10, the Lolynes were taken off the 305 (I think just replaced with Excels) and re-allocated to the 308.

In 2008, Arriva took 'full' control of the main 308 just after ordering 6x ADL E400s (3x short of then PVR) but GNE ran a competing Bargain Bus 308 alongside their then newly launched Cobalt Clipper 309 (now Cobalt & Coast).

An interesting fact about the Volvo Olympian allocation on the 308 however is that it meant the full Coast Road corridor was using the same vehicle types at the time around 2000/01.

Arriva 306 - P4** CCU - Volvo D10-245
Arriva 308 - M3** FTY - Cummins L10
Go Coastline 308 - S8** OFT - Volvo D10-245

Likewise in 2003 when the ex Hexham Tridents ended up on the 308, GNE & Arriva were then technically using the same vehicle types abeit with different bodywork (ELC vs Alexander) and gearboxes (Voith vs ZF)

Even then, it doesn't tell the whole story

The ex Merseyside Olympians that Arriva used were horrendous with water ingress making them so damp smelling, Arriva put air fresheners under the seats, the Arriva Tridents were so slow they struggled to keep time, and the Lowlanders had Urban 90 seats with no comfort.

The Go Ahead fleet was generally much better in terms of presentation and comfort.

The Tridents weren't great. I only ever rode them on the 308 when at Blyth and 306 when later at Jesmond (after Blyth got Lowlanders).

My first sighting of one on the 602 was one broken down near the Redheugh Bridge.

And when they were at Jesmond, they were never used on Evenings & Sundays with either Volvo B10BLEs allocated instead or if a decker was needed (Christmas shoppers, matchdays etc), it would be a Volvo Olympian Palatine II

 

[Andyh82]

Due to the continued staff shortage, services run by Consett, Washington and Deptford are being reduced to operate a Sunday service on Saturdays

X-lines X1
X-lines X5 | X15
X-lines X20
X-lines X30 | X31
X-lines X45 | X46
X-lines X70 | X71 | X72
Sunderland District Berries 2 | 2A
Connections 4
Service 9
Durham Diamond 16 | 16A
Prince Bishops 20
Service 26
Sunderland District Cherry 35 | 35A
Sunderland District Graphite 39 | 39A
Red Kite Ranger 47 | 47A
Service 50
Sunderland District Violet 55
Cityrider 56
Drifter 60
Sunderland District Blue 61
Country Ranger 78
Little Pinks 82 | 84 | 84A | 85

Temporary weekend timetable changes from Saturday 8 January

Some services will run to Sunday timetables on both Saturdays and Sundays until further notice.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

 

[safcwebster]

Service changes from 30 January

From 30 January, we will be implementing some service changes to better match service capacity to long-term demand expectations.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

The number of people returning to places of work and needing to travel has and continues to change as a result of the pandemic, affecting both the demand for our services and where and when we see congestion on our road network.



From 30 January, we will be implementing some service changes to better match service capacity to long-term demand expectations, and continuing our work to adjust schedules in response to new traffic congestion issues.

 

[Andyh82]

Go North East have announced massive service cuts

Consultation on proposed service changes

We are proposing to make some changes to services from 24 July. Please take the time to have your say in our customer consultation.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Interesting that many of the services being reduced or withdrawn have only recently received new or refurbished buses with new rebranded ‘Best Impressions’ liveries.

 

[DanNCL]

Go North East have announced massive service cuts

Consultation on proposed service changes

We are proposing to make some changes to services from 24 July. Please take the time to have your say in our customer consultation.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Interesting that many of the services being reduced or withdrawn have only recently received new or refurbished buses with new rebranded ‘Best Impressions’ liveries.

Many of those cuts are completely unacceptable. There would be no bus services to anywhere in Birtley not on Durham Road. There would be no bus service to Kibblesworth at all.

 

[jkkne]

Go North East have announced massive service cuts

Consultation on proposed service changes

We are proposing to make some changes to services from 24 July. Please take the time to have your say in our customer consultation.

www.gonortheast.co.uk

Interesting that many of the services being reduced or withdrawn have only recently received new or refurbished buses with new rebranded ‘Best Impressions’ liveries.

Ouch! This is utterly brutal and perhaps proof their constant tinkering and unstable route network doesn't work.

For all the critics they have at least Arriva and Stagecoach have retained a stable network without all these gimmicks and constant branding changes

 

[Andyh82]

Every route that received brand new "X Lines" E400 MMCs in 2019/2020 has now had its frequency slashed twice

 

[bobslack1982]

When it’s barely been 4 months since the last lot of route changes, it’s not surprising passengers don’t know what’s going on and instead choose not to travel by bus.

People just want a reliable bus service on clean buses. The constant messing about with route numbers, brands, service changes etc over the last 12-15 years - it’s no surprise to see the company in the state it’s in.

 

[Andyh82]

I can’t work out how they know that some services will never recover

Since the last major service changes, there has been a period of unreliable services due to the driver shortages and a period when Sunday frequencies ran on Saturdays, which both will have reduced passenger numbers, so how can they be sure they’ve got reliable data?

 

[vla50]

Are Go North East receiving E400s from London?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ouch! This is utterly brutal and perhaps proof their constant tinkering and unstable route network doesn't work.

For all the critics they have at least Arriva and Stagecoach have retained a stable network without all these gimmicks and constant branding changes

It is certainly brutal. I'd heard the changes were extensive but some of these are beyond what were expected.

I don't agree with a few of Mr Gilbert's initiatives. Stuff like the coaches on the X9/X10 and then there's all the faffing with liveries that get the gricers purring (Charterplan??), and the rebranding to bring in BI brands rather than the Huntley era ones just seemed to be an unnecessary diversion.

Thought the X Lines was a reasonable idea. As for comparing with Arriva, notwithstanding that they introduced Sapphire and Max and branded various routes etc and have now walked away from much of that, I'd suggest that Arriva's stable network over the last 15 years has been one of constant decline.

Every route that received brand new "X Lines" E400 MMCs in 2019/2020 has now had its frequency slashed twice

To be honest, I was a bit dubious on some of those but the X84/X85 seemed a massively optimistic move.

When it’s barely been 4 months since the last lot of route changes, it’s not surprising passengers don’t know what’s going on and instead choose not to travel by bus.

People just want a reliable bus service on clean buses. The constant messing about with route numbers, brands, service changes etc over the last 12-15 years - it’s no surprise to see the company in the state it’s in.

Not certain that I agree with the last paragraph. Buses are better turned out and are clean; the unreliability with driver shortages has certainly been an issue. There hasn't been a wholesale messing about with brands though. Huntley brought them in, and Carr retained quite a few. I did think that a number of the more recent rebrands have been unnecessary though and not seen what benefit that's brought.

 

[hst43102]

It is certainly brutal. I'd heard the changes were extensive but some of these are beyond what were expected.

I don't agree with a few of Mr Gilbert's initiatives. Stuff like the coaches on the X9/X10 and then there's all the faffing with liveries that get the gricers purring (Charterplan??), and the rebranding to bring in BI brands rather than the Huntley era ones just seemed to be an unnecessary diversion.

Thought the X Lines was a reasonable idea. As for comparing with Arriva, notwithstanding that they introduced Sapphire and Max and branded various routes etc and have now walked away from much of that, I'd suggest that Arriva's stable network over the last 15 years has been one of constant decline.

To be honest, I was a bit dubious on some of those but the X84/X85 seemed a massively optimistic move.

Not certain that I agree with the last paragraph. Buses are better turned out and are clean; the unreliability with driver shortages has certainly been an issue. There hasn't been a wholesale messing about with brands though. Huntley brought them in, and Carr retained quite a few. I did think that a number of the more recent rebrands have been unnecessary though and not seen what benefit that's brought.

I think the biggest issue has been the constant faffing about with the fleet, rather than just liveries and brandings. After all, liveries and brandings are often nothing more than just a paint job. The whole coaches on the X9/X10, MMCs on the X84/X85, Streetdecks moving from the X21 to X15 then being replaced by B5LHs only a year or two later, and the whole issue around rebranding a service just to slash its frequency or even cancel it altogether are a much bigger issue. I do agree that many of the recent rebrands have been utterly pointless though - the loss of established brandings like the QuayLink, Black Cats, Toon Link, Fab 56 etc, and the introduction of yawn-inducing brandings like the "East Gateshead" services and the Sunderland & District services (Berries, Violet, Blonde, Silver, Graphite - is there even a pattern here?) seem like a real shame to me.

 

[Megafuss]

Hmm. I think GNE have managed the way through the pandemic atrociously to be honest.

For example, who on earth chooses to make major network change weeks from the end of Lockdown 1 when you have no idea how people are going to return.

It's already been mentioned about the X10 coaches debacle.

Driver shorteges and self imposed Sunday timetables on Saturdays would turn punters away. All this before you even get to the "fit for the future' document last of September and the very heavily promoted Sunderland and District. Why should people give GNE the time of day on these changes when the very same people were the ones saying they were making things better last year?

If this was Arriva or some First bus operations there would be outcry of "they don't know what they are doing", and here we are

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Hmm. I think GNE have managed the way through the pandemic atrociously to be honest.

For example, who on earth chooses to make major network change weeks from the end of Lockdown 1 when you have no idea how people are going to return.

It's already been mentioned about the X10 coaches debacle.

Driver shorteges and self imposed Sunday timetables on Saturdays would turn punters away. All this before you even get to the "fit for the future' document last of September and the very heavily promoted Sunderland and District. Why should people give GNE the time of day on these changes when the very same people were the ones saying they were making things better last year?

If this was Arriva or some First bus operations there would be outcry of "they don't know what they are doing", and here we are

The two sets of changes are a baffling state of affairs; appreciate the challenges with staffing and that's affecting the whole industry; the Sunday service on Saturdays I could, to an extent, understand as many services are pretty quiet on Saturdays now and with driver shortages, I could see some of the logic. However, when businesses effect three sets of major changes in 9 months, that's showing they have got things majorly wrong.

I don't subscribe to the view that marketing of bus services shouldn't be pursued; generally, I applaud operators who try to market their services and that usually involves Ray Stenning etc. The work that Peter Huntley did was excellent (and was reflected in the profits) though it arguably went a little far. However, it's the pointlessness of some of the changes (like the S&D ones and some others that I mentioned months ago) that I find baffling.

In addition, when we began to see coaches appearing in odd liveries and a fleet of deckers in Voyager colours, it felt like it was too much messing about and not enough concentration on the important things in managing the operations. Too much tinkering and faffing.

ps I still don't rate Arriva NE especially highly either - you only have to look at how that business has shrunk over the intervening 15 years and it ain't over yet.

 

[Murray J]

Are Go North East receiving E400s from London?

I believe 8 have arrived but haven't seen anything confirming identifies, all 08 reg I believe though.

 

[Megafuss]

The two sets of changes are a baffling state of affairs; appreciate the challenges with staffing and that's affecting the whole industry; the Sunday service on Saturdays I could, to an extent, understand as many services are pretty quiet on Saturdays now and with driver shortages, I could see some of the logic. However, when businesses effect three sets of major changes in 9 months, that's showing they have got things majorly wrong.

I don't subscribe to the view that marketing of bus services shouldn't be pursued; generally, I applaud operators who try to market their services and that usually involves Ray Stenning etc. The work that Peter Huntley did was excellent (and was reflected in the profits) though it arguably went a little far. However, it's the pointlessness of some of the changes (like the S&D ones and some others that I mentioned months ago) that I find baffling.

In addition, when we began to see coaches appearing in odd liveries and a fleet of deckers in Voyager colours, it felt like it was too much messing about and not enough concentration on the important things in managing the operations. Too much tinkering and faffing.

ps I still don't rate Arriva NE especially highly either - you only have to look at how that business has shrunk over the intervening 15 years and it ain't over yet.

I agree, but I make it three different editions of the Stanley and Consett 108 page Best Impressions produced guide from September last year. Those aren't cheap either, although relatively small compared to other outgoings.

It's no wonder they have drivers leaving, the rotas appear to change every few months!

 

[Andyh82]

The two sets of changes are a baffling state of affairs; appreciate the challenges with staffing and that's affecting the whole industry; the Sunday service on Saturdays I could, to an extent, understand as many services are pretty quiet on Saturdays now and with driver shortages, I could see some of the logic. However, when businesses effect three sets of major changes in 9 months, that's showing they have got things majorly wrong.

I don't subscribe to the view that marketing of bus services shouldn't be pursued; generally, I applaud operators who try to market their services and that usually involves Ray Stenning etc. The work that Peter Huntley did was excellent (and was reflected in the profits) though it arguably went a little far. However, it's the pointlessness of some of the changes (like the S&D ones and some others that I mentioned months ago) that I find baffling.

In addition, when we began to see coaches appearing in odd liveries and a fleet of deckers in Voyager colours, it felt like it was too much messing about and not enough concentration on the important things in managing the operations. Too much tinkering and faffing.

ps I still don't rate Arriva NE especially highly either - you only have to look at how that business has shrunk over the intervening 15 years and it ain't over yet.

I agree with all this, I think Ray Stenning was given too much freedom and any new design was just met with gushing praise despite it just being an attempt to replicate Transdev Blazefield a few miles further north.
Some of the new brands were pointless (rebranding Coast and Country to Country Ranger, axing Red Kite before bringing it back as Red Kite Ranger, axing the long established Fab56 replacing it with the bland CityRider that could be anywhere)

Others where clearly mad such as the Sunderland and District brands, seemingly an attempt to recreate a Reading style coloured network despite GNE not really being the network operator anywhere they operate except in Gateshead, so we ended up with the ridiculous Blonde/Blue/Graphite/Berries. The one bus Blonde is now being withdrawn entirely!

The “Fit for the Future” document is a work of fiction now, and was strange at the time, half service change leaflet, half corporate brochure, it must of cost a fortune, and due to the size wasn’t able to be distributed properly besides just throwing some copies in various luggage racks

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I agree with all this, I think Ray Stenning was given too much freedom and any new design was just met with gushing praise despite it just being an attempt to replicate Transdev Blazefield a few miles further north.
Some of the new brands were pointless (rebranding Coast and Country to Country Ranger, axing Red Kite before bringing it back as Red Kite Ranger, axing the long established Fab56 replacing it with the bland CityRider that could be anywhere)

I don't know if it was Ray S being given free rein; at the end of the day, Martijn Gilbert is the guy who engaged him and set the brief and ultimately signed it off. Just a feeling (and nothing more) that it was more to do with wiping away the Huntley/Carr era brands by Gilbert so he could bring in his own brands courtesy of BI.

However, aside from the X Lines (which was a move that I did welcome), you've seen recognisable brands binned in favour of stuff that feels terribly generic. Even away from that, it feels that there was too much focus on image and not backed up with the substance of service delivery. The decisions for interdecks on the X10 and brand new deckers for the X84/X85.... well, I have no idea what the logic was behind that and they puzzled me.

 

[Andyh82]

It’s debatable if X Lines was even necessary. The Consett and Stanley services are not particularly fast, and the X1 replaced the long established Red Arrows brand

 

[vla50]

I believe 8 have arrived but haven't seen anything confirming identifies, all 08 reg I believe though.

E100-103 have been missing for a while so maybe they'd also be arrivals?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It’s debatable if X Lines was even necessary. The Consett and Stanley services are not particularly fast, and the X1 replaced the long established Red Arrows brand

It was a return to the old Expresslink concept that included the X1 and the Derwentside routes.

 

[Murray J]

E100-103 have been missing for a while so maybe they'd also be arrivals?

Just checked a possibly inaccurate list of the arrivals and they're indeed on there, I say possibly as there are 9 vehicles on there while the other place I heard about this said 8. The vehicles quoted are E64-65, E93, E97-98 and E100-103.

 

[nesw]

Goodness knows how much money has been spent on new branding over recent years. Mr. Stenning must’ve collected at least half a million from Go North East/East Yorkshire and that’s without the cost of materials etc.

Best Impressions have created some fantastic branding over the years however, I do wonder how the bus companies will cope when he retires as there doesn’t appear to be much competition.

 

[Andyh82]

Goodness knows how much money has been spent on new branding over recent years. Mr. Stenning must’ve collected at least half a million from Go North East/East Yorkshire and that’s without the cost of materials etc.

Best Impressions have created some fantastic branding over the years however, I do wonder how the bus companies will cope when he retires as there doesn’t appear to be much competition.

See East Yorkshire is the exact sort of company where I welcome Best Impressions coming in, as the old livery was awfully old fashioned, and although some like that traditional look, the new has given EY a new lease of life. Also the latter Shipp era liveries such as the ‘much more cream’ version didn’t look great in my opinion

Whereas with GNE all they’ve done is throw away perfectly good unique brands and liveries, some of which were of many years standing and generally already looked modern, and tried to replicate another version of Transdev, Reading or Trent Barton.

 

[DanNCL]

I have been reliably informed by someone I work with that Nexus do in fact already pay GNE to run many of the services that they’re trying to cut. Which means either Nexus have requested some of these changes, including the removal of the only bus link to Kibblesworth, or GNE have unilaterally decided that they can’t be bothered to run these services anymore, despite being paid by Nexus to run them.

For branding, some of the changes have been an utter waste of money - City Rider replacing Fab Fifty Six, Little Pinks replacing Indigo, and don’t get me started on those Sunderland brands…

X Lines is one of the few brands they’ve got right, but their constant tinkering about with the network and not giving things enough time to tell if they're viable really lets it down.

Another one I think they’ve got right is replacing the Q1/Q2 with the 51/52 and restoring the Orbit name, it always seemed daft to me that what was effectively a Gateshead circular bus was branded as Quaylink just because of a short extension that virtually nobody travelled through to from the rest of the route. Q3 on the other hand should have stayed Quaylink, the new livery is smart but there was no need to change the name to Quaycity, keeping the Quaylink name on the new livery would have been fine.

The coaches on the X10 were a bad idea in the first place so the right decision was taken to replace them with E400 MMCs. I only used the coaches once for the full journey but it struck me how unsuited they were to the route - yes there is a lot of running on the A19 but there is also a good amount of slower running in built up areas which the coaches were not suited to. A high performance bus is what is needed on that route, the Wrights used before weren’t great, but if Arriva’s experience on the X15/X18 is anything to go by the E400s will probably do ok on the X10.

As for GNE’s finances, they’d be in a much better state if they didn’t tinker with the routes so often that customers lost confidence and if they didn’t waste so much time and money on pointless rebrands, in many cases repainting the same vehicle twice in just a few months. They shouldn’t be pleading to Nexus for public money just because they don’t want to stop wasting money on endless repaints and timetable changes.

See East Yorkshire is the exact sort of company where I welcome Best Impressions coming in, as the old livery was awfully old fashioned, and although some like that traditional look, the new has given EY a new lease of life. Also the latter Shipp era liveries such as the ‘much more cream’ version didn’t look great in my opinion

Whereas with GNE all they’ve done is throw away perfectly good unique brands and liveries, some of which were of many years standing and generally already looked modern, and tried to replicate another version of Transdev, Reading or Trent Barton.

Martijn Gilbert is of course ex-Reading Buses. It seems he’s trying to make GNE a replica of them, and I think that was always going to be an issue in the long run as when it comes to local transport what works for one place (in this case Reading) won’t automatically work somewhere else (in this case the North East).

 

[jkkne]

I have been reliably informed by someone I work with that Nexus do in fact already pay GNE to run many of the services that they’re trying to cut. Which means either Nexus have requested some of these changes, including the removal of the only bus link to Kibblesworth, or GNE have unilaterally decided that they can’t be bothered to run these services anymore, despite being paid by Nexus to run them.

The 29 is operated commercially but some early morning, Sunday and late evening trips on the 28A/28B are supported by Nexus (as with the majority of the network tbh)

What GNE are probably doing us cutting the commercial part of the route so it makes the subsidised part inefficient to run - i.e dead mileage, waste of resource etc (unless Nexus agree to pay for the whole route)

GNEs Martijn has put a video out on Facebook which essentially says - it's ok, we know the local authority will pay for us to save these routes.

 

[Christophe]

I don't know if it was Ray S being given free rein; at the end of the day, Martijn Gilbert is the guy who engaged him and set the brief and ultimately signed it off. Just a feeling (and nothing more) that it was more to do with wiping away the Huntley/Carr era brands by Gilbert so he could bring in his own brands courtesy of BI.

However, aside from the X Lines (which was a move that I did welcome), you've seen recognisable brands binned in favour of stuff that feels terribly generic. Even away from that, it feels that there was too much focus on image and not backed up with the substance of service delivery. The decisions for interdecks on the X10 and brand new deckers for the X84/X85.... well, I have no idea what the logic was behind that and they puzzled me.

I'm not entirely sure if GNE wanted the Interdecks, or if they were told they wanted the Interdecks centrally by Go Ahead Group. At the time they were surplus form a Carousel (?) route. New Streetdecks were diverted away from GNE to Oxford Bus Company at the same time, could just be coincidence though.

 

[kez19]

Speaking as an outsider I’m surprised by the 28 as isn’t that the link to the Beamish Museum? As it’s cutting them off from getting visitors/tourists? If you want to visit that it seems to be you have to go via Sunderland to then get is it the 8/78 service instead? (Newcastle to Sunderland via bus or metro then connection at Sunderland)?

 

[MotCO]

I'm not entirely sure if GNE wanted the interdecks, or if they were told they wanted the interdecks centrally by GAG. At the time they were surplus form a Carousel (?) route. New streetdecks were diverted away from GNE to OBC at the same time, could just be coincidence though.

They were originally used on the Oxford - London route before it was cut. They were probably already knackered, and they were found an unsuitable home on Carousel route 101 to Heathrow, before passing to GNE.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Speaking as an outsider I’m surprised by the 28 as isn’t that the link to the Beamish Museum? As it’s cutting them off from getting visitors/tourists? If you want to visit that it seems to be you have to go via Sunderland to then get is it the 8/78 service instead? (Newcastle to Sunderland via bus or metro then connection at Sunderland)?

Last summer they operated an express service from Newcastle and Gateshead to Beamish, but this only ran a few times a day so wouldn't exactly be a replacement.

Regarding how people would have to get to Beamish, they could go via Chester-le-Street - that'd be a bit faster than via Sunderland. But it's still not ideal.