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Go North East

markymark2000

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They already do, there's quite a few school routes sub contracted out to JH Coaches and L&G Coaches. It's why they show they on the GoNorthEast tracking on Bustimes.
Last year though A Line and a few others were covering actual service runs as well, not just schools.

One thing which will help to free up a few drivers is Toon Tour has it's last day today so that should free up a couple of drivers per day which will help things somewhat.
 
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bobslack1982

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I have no idea how the management is still in place at GNE. The company has been a mess for years now. Pointless branding, the X84 debacle, endless route and timetable changes, 3 years of cancellations and now this.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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As an exiled North Easterner, and with connections to people who work in the NE bus industry, my thoughts...

There's quite a bit of criticism on these posts for Nigel Featham, and seemingly wanting to point out that there were strikes at Arriva NE and Go North West under his tenure from @Snex . Given how much he's been involved in Manchester, I'd question quite how much he's been involved at the sharp end of North East in recent weeks/months. I might add that with GNW, he was facing into some long established problems that hadn't been tackled for years and resulted in all manner of wasteful practices being perpetuated. I wonder if there's a few things at Go North East that have been left for many years? Of course, the PR release from Unite is similar in that it points how profitable Arriva was, in much the same way that Go Ahead Group is highlighted whilst not addressing the local issue. I'm sure that the dispute will be resolved; I recall the Go Ahead Northern strike in 1991 and the damage that it did so hope they do get it resolved.

The criticism on taking on the former Arriva 50-series services is interesting, especially the claim that they were loss making. Without seeing the financials, that is impossible to say, and I'd point to the fact that both Go Ahead and Stagecoach both threw their hats into the ring for these allegedly loss making routes! GNE steamed in first with their registrations and probably thought that would secure them, so you can see the logic. That Stagecoach responded by extending the 38 (and creating the 37) will give them the advantage as it's simply a marginal extension with limited increase in resources.

The closure of Chester le Street depot is very reminiscent of Arriva's closure of Bishop Auckland depot in 2011. The same reasons were provided - ageing depot, expensive to maintain, needing work, can be covered by spare capacity at nearby depots, etc. As with that case, closing CLS is the wrong solution to the problem. It exacerbates the driver shortages (which driver in the town wants to drive to Consett or Riverside depot? - you might as well move to Washington or else work for Arriva at Belmont). Instead, a smaller, cheaper Chester base would have been appropriate.

ps whilst not strictly on topic, it has been mentioned about Arriva's closure of Jesmond. Whilst the site was sold on a sale and lease back several years ago, it was always known that a break clause was coming. The plan was to move to a smaller depot (as Arriva's operations at Jesmond had declined so markedly) as was announced when Jesmond's closure was disclosed. It was only a few months later that they decided that they couldn't afford a Newcastle site that they decided to move to Ashington and Blyth (and then they didn't secure Ashington overflow); had they continued with Newcastle, then those allegedly loss making 50-series routes may well have been retained, esp at a site with a lower cost base. As it was, they simply couldn't be operated remotely with the level of interworking being undertaken already. Oh, and that does suppose that it had to be a brand new depot for Arriva in Newcastle whereas, as with both Belmont and Darlington, you can make do with a repurposed existing site...but I digress.

The policies of Martjin Gilbert were too much on shiny marketing. Now, I am a firm believer that marketing works but the product has to be right. The branding of X-links was a good move, representing a return to the former Go Ahead Northern Expresslink concept of the late 1980s. However, the pointless rebrands of many other routes with established identities was a waste of money and management effort when there were much more pressing issues operationally to focus upon. Note: with X-Links, whilst I'm broadly ok with the concept, placing new deckers on the X84/5 was never going to pay it's way. Similarly, the arrival of the ex Oxford coaches was clearly not going to work (though were they foisted on the North East by group?)

Go North East is a bit of a mess. The decision to close CLS depot was ill conceived. I recall the plan had been, at one time, to close both CLS and Stanley and have a super depot, in much the same way as Riverside and Deptford schemes. If that was the plan, then Consett wouldn't have been the right place. Perhaps if/when Manchester calms down and the dispute is resolved, Nigel Featham can get to grips with an operation that from the hard nosed expansionist days of Peter Huntley and the quiet conservatism of Kevin Carr, seems to have been lost to too many flights of fancy in the Gilbert era. A Routemaster on the Angel - that's when the shark was truly jumped!
 

Snex

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As an exiled North Easterner, and with connections to people who work in the NE bus industry, my thoughts...

There's quite a bit of criticism on these posts for Nigel Featham, and seemingly wanting to point out that there were strikes at Arriva NE and Go North West under his tenure from @Snex . Given how much he's been involved in Manchester, I'd question quite how much he's been involved at the sharp end of North East in recent weeks/months. I might add that with GNW, he was facing into some long established problems that hadn't been tackled for years and resulted in all manner of wasteful practices being perpetuated. I wonder if there's a few things at Go North East that have been left for many years? Of course, the PR release from Unite is similar in that it points how profitable Arriva was, in much the same way that Go Ahead Group is highlighted whilst not addressing the local issue. I'm sure that the dispute will be resolved; I recall the Go Ahead Northern strike in 1991 and the damage that it did so hope they do get it resolved.

The criticism on taking on the former Arriva 50-series services is interesting, especially the claim that they were loss making. Without seeing the financials, that is impossible to say, and I'd point to the fact that both Go Ahead and Stagecoach both threw their hats into the ring for these allegedly loss making routes! GNE steamed in first with their registrations and probably thought that would secure them, so you can see the logic. That Stagecoach responded by extending the 38 (and creating the 37) will give them the advantage as it's simply a marginal extension with limited increase in resources.

The closure of Chester le Street depot is very reminiscent of Arriva's closure of Bishop Auckland depot in 2011. The same reasons were provided - ageing depot, expensive to maintain, needing work, can be covered by spare capacity at nearby depots, etc. As with that case, closing CLS is the wrong solution to the problem. It exacerbates the driver shortages (which driver in the town wants to drive to Consett or Riverside depot? - you might as well move to Washington or else work for Arriva at Belmont). Instead, a smaller, cheaper Chester base would have been appropriate.

ps whilst not strictly on topic, it has been mentioned about Arriva's closure of Jesmond. Whilst the site was sold on a sale and lease back several years ago, it was always known that a break clause was coming. The plan was to move to a smaller depot (as Arriva's operations at Jesmond had declined so markedly) as was announced when Jesmond's closure was disclosed. It was only a few months later that they decided that they couldn't afford a Newcastle site that they decided to move to Ashington and Blyth (and then they didn't secure Ashington overflow); had they continued with Newcastle, then those allegedly loss making 50-series routes may well have been retained, esp at a site with a lower cost base. As it was, they simply couldn't be operated remotely with the level of interworking being undertaken already. Oh, and that does suppose that it had to be a brand new depot for Arriva in Newcastle whereas, as with both Belmont and Darlington, you can make do with a repurposed existing site...but I digress.

The policies of Martjin Gilbert were too much on shiny marketing. Now, I am a firm believer that marketing works but the product has to be right. The branding of X-links was a good move, representing a return to the former Go Ahead Northern Expresslink concept of the late 1980s. However, the pointless rebrands of many other routes with established identities was a waste of money and management effort when there were much more pressing issues operationally to focus upon. Note: with X-Links, whilst I'm broadly ok with the concept, placing new deckers on the X84/5 was never going to pay it's way. Similarly, the arrival of the ex Oxford coaches was clearly not going to work (though were they foisted on the North East by group?)

Go North East is a bit of a mess. The decision to close CLS depot was ill conceived. I recall the plan had been, at one time, to close both CLS and Stanley and have a super depot, in much the same way as Riverside and Deptford schemes. If that was the plan, then Consett wouldn't have been the right place. Perhaps if/when Manchester calms down and the dispute is resolved, Nigel Featham can get to grips with an operation that from the hard nosed expansionist days of Peter Huntley and the quiet conservatism of Kevin Carr, seems to have been lost to too many flights of fancy in the Gilbert era. A Routemaster on the Angel - that's when the shark was truly jumped!

Good post and can't disagree with any of it.

On the Stagecoach extensions, there's been talk that it was a reactive response to the GoNorthEast registrations, in particular routing the 355 through Longbenton. I don't know what the GoNorthEast vs Stagecoach and Arriva relationship is like but they weren't both quickly on the ball to take an opportunity to take customers from the strike by accepting GoNorthEast tickets. Not to mention, Stagecoach has been making inroads into North Tyneside in recent times with contracts such as the 10/11, 317 and the 22 Cobalt extension in partnership with Cobalt.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Good post and can't disagree with any of it.

On the Stagecoach extensions, there's been talk that it was a reactive response to the GoNorthEast registrations, in particular routing the 355 through Longbenton. I don't know what the GoNorthEast vs Stagecoach and Arriva relationship is like but they weren't both quickly on the ball to take an opportunity to take customers from the strike by accepting GoNorthEast tickets. Not to mention, Stagecoach has been making inroads into North Tyneside in recent times with contracts such as the 10/11, 317 and the 22 Cobalt extension in partnership with Cobalt.
The GNE registrations did catch Stagecoach a bit off guard though I believe that they were already formulating plans to enter the vacuum from Arriva's exit.

Stagecoach North East has traditionally been conservative in their approach, keeping to traditional boundaries. As you say, they are now in new areas with the 10/11 and 317, took up Arriva's 685 share, and have expanded with the 59 from Hartlepool to Durham, the 6 into Darlington, and the 1/2 into East Cleveland. They've been quick to exploit the weaknesses/opportunities from both Go NE and Arriva
 

317 forever

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The GNE registrations did catch Stagecoach a bit off guard though I believe that they were already formulating plans to enter the vacuum from Arriva's exit.

Stagecoach North East has traditionally been conservative in their approach, keeping to traditional boundaries. As you say, they are now in new areas with the 10/11 and 317, took up Arriva's 685 share, and have expanded with the 59 from Hartlepool to Durham, the 6 into Darlington, and the 1/2 into East Cleveland. They've been quick to exploit the weaknesses/opportunities from both Go NE and Arriva
What is particularly interesting about Stagecoach replacing Arriva's journeys on route 685 is that these are from their depot in Newcastle Slatyford.

Before privatisation it would have been hard to imagine Tyne & Wear PTE or Newcastle City Transport running buses to Carlisle.

With Hexham being mid-route, it does seem surprising that this route is not run by Go North East at Hexham. I am aware about the operator history effectively mitigating against this.
 

Andyh82

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I wasn’t a fan of how long established brands were thrown in the bin, and almost everything converted into Best Impressions brands, so Quaylink became QuayCity, Fab56 became the generic CityRider and you had the daft Sunderland network with its ‘posh’ colours - Graphite, Blonde etc that just doesn’t connect with a working class down to earth place like Sunderland. The Angel was one of very few that was left unscathed.

The branding situation is a mess now with services joining and leaving brands, not for any particular reason, but just because there are surplus vehicles in a certain colour available that match a PVR, with no money available to repaint them either in a new brand or generic red. I believe the 65 is now part of Prince Bishops brand?
 

Kuyoyo

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I wasn’t a fan of how long established brands were thrown in the bin, and almost everything converted into Best Impressions brands, so Quaylink became QuayCity, Fab56 became the generic CityRider and you had the daft Sunderland network with its ‘posh’ colours - Graphite, Blonde etc that just doesn’t connect with a working class down to earth place like Sunderland. The Angel was one of very few that was left unscathed.

The branding situation is a mess now with services joining and leaving brands, not for any particular reason, but just because there are surplus vehicles in a certain colour available that match a PVR, with no money available to repaint them either in a new brand or generic red. I believe the 65 is now part of Prince Bishops brand?

65 is indeed now branded 'Prince Bishops' due to it interworking with the 20A in Durham - resolving both the remote changeover issue on the 65 since the closure of Peterlee depot as well as avoiding the long layover the 20As had in Durham from last September until the introduction of said interworking earlier this year. The 'East Durham Explorer' Streetlites are now used on the 61 - which was originally due to be 'Blue' in the 'Sunderland District' rebranding but nothing was ever painted for it.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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What is particularly interesting about Stagecoach replacing Arriva's journeys on route 685 is that these are from their depot in Newcastle Slatyford.

Before privatisation it would have been hard to imagine Tyne & Wear PTE or Newcastle City Transport running buses to Carlisle.

With Hexham being mid-route, it does seem surprising that this route is not run by Go North East at Hexham. I am aware about the operator history effectively mitigating against this.
Historically, the 685 was operated by Carlisle (United then Ribble (1969) then Cumberland (1986)) and by Hexham (United then Northumbria (1986)). It was only when Hexham was sold by Arriva to Go Ahead that the Eastern end as Arriva retained the 685 and moved it to Jesmond depot.

Slatyford makes some sense being on the Western side of the city
I wasn’t a fan of how long established brands were thrown in the bin, and almost everything converted into Best Impressions brands, so Quaylink became QuayCity, Fab56 became the generic CityRider and you had the daft Sunderland network with its ‘posh’ colours - Graphite, Blonde etc that just doesn’t connect with a working class down to earth place like Sunderland. The Angel was one of very few that was left unscathed.
Exactly my thoughts. The 56 was a pointless rebrand as was Quaylink, and as for the Sunderland Berries and stuff... Just seemed to be incoherent as well as needless
 

Andyh82

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Historically, the 685 was operated by Carlisle (United then Ribble (1969) then Cumberland (1986)) and by Hexham (United then Northumbria (1986)). It was only when Hexham was sold by Arriva to Go Ahead that the Eastern end as Arriva retained the 685 and moved it to Jesmond depot.

Slatyford makes some sense being on the Western side of the city

Exactly my thoughts. The 56 was a pointless rebrand as was Quaylink, and as for the Sunderland Berries and stuff... Just seemed to be incoherent as well as needless
It seemed to me the MD and Ray Stenning wanted to tick all the branding boxes - interurban brand, individual brands, ‘little’ minibus networks etc. this was the ‘town network of colours’ box as used in places like Nottingham and Reading.

Didn’t work as GNE aren’t even really the network operator in Sunderland - Stagecoach is.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It seemed to me the MD and Ray Stenning wanted to tick all the branding boxes - interurban brand, individual brands, ‘little’ minibus networks etc. this was the ‘town network of colours’ box as used in places like Nottingham and Reading.

Didn’t work as GNE aren’t even really the network operator in Sunderland - Stagecoach is.
I might be inclined to put more blame on Martjin Gilbert than Ray Stenning.

First of all, it would have been MG who took the decision to engage Best Impressions. Also, it did feel a bit like a "let's replicate Reading" in terms of the berries etc, and then you question the wisdom of making so many changes. Felt like MG was trying to make a statement like... "that was the past, I'm here and we're going to remove these childish brands and my mate Ray can provide more sensible and professional imagery". Change for the sake of change. Moreover, and I know it's subjective, I think it is some of Ray Stenning's most disappointing work.

As I've said before, the X-Lines network is perhaps a return to the days of the Expresslink network with the routes from Newcastle into Derwentside and into East Durham so I'm more inclined to see the logic in that.
 

Snex

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It seemed to me the MD and Ray Stenning wanted to tick all the branding boxes - interurban brand, individual brands, ‘little’ minibus networks etc. this was the ‘town network of colours’ box as used in places like Nottingham and Reading.

Didn’t work as GNE aren’t even really the network operator in Sunderland - Stagecoach is.
I might be inclined to put more blame on Martjin Gilbert than Ray Stenning.

First of all, it would have been MG who took the decision to engage Best Impressions. Also, it did feel a bit like a "let's replicate Reading" in terms of the berries etc, and then you question the wisdom of making so many changes. Felt like MG was trying to make a statement like... "that was the past, I'm here and we're going to remove these childish brands and my mate Ray can provide more sensible and professional imagery". Change for the sake of change. Moreover, and I know it's subjective, I think it is some of Ray Stenning's most disappointing work.

As I've said before, the X-Lines network is perhaps a return to the days of the Expresslink network with the routes from Newcastle into Derwentside and into East Durham so I'm more inclined to see the logic in that.

I can't remember who done it, but quite a lot of the branding wasn't actually done by Best Impressions. Tyne Valley Ten is definitely one of them, as it uses images like a chopped in half phone and a football which looks like it came from clipart. Awful branding.
 

DunsBus

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I can't remember who done it, but quite a lot of the branding wasn't actually done by Best Impressions. Tyne Valley Ten is definitely one of them, as it uses images like a chopped in half phone and a football which looks like it came from clipart. Awful branding.
And with the Tyne Valley Ten not running because of the strike, it's currently the Tyne Valley Zero. :lol:
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I can't remember who done it, but quite a lot of the branding wasn't actually done by Best Impressions. Tyne Valley Ten is definitely one of them, as it uses images like a chopped in half phone and a football which looks like it came from clipart. Awful branding.
Those from the Huntley and Carr eras were definitely not done by Best Impressions.

The ones now are all BI designs, I believe. Some are revised versions of what was there before (TV10, Crusader, Angel, Prince Bishops) but to a house style, as opposed to brand new ones. Some work ok, like Crusader, but Tyne Valley Ten is one of the updated ones that looks worse than what it replaced - messy and confused (and yes, the graphics).
 

Tetchytyke

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loss making company…Where does one start with GNE. It’s a basket case and it has been even since Gilbert was in charge.
Expenses haven’t increased since Gilbert was in charge. Income has decreased, largely because the Covid grants have stopped.

GNE wasn’t a “basket case” before and it isn’t a “basket case” now.

What GNE is doing, however, is paying a disproportionate amount of money up the group to pay for central group funding. The overall group continues to make money, and lots and lots of money, so GNE’s “losses” are nothing more than an accounting quirk.

It’s the easiest thing in the world to make a subsidiary look like it’s losing money if it suits you to have a loss-making subsidiary.
 

bobslack1982

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Striking drivers apparently hit by “moving vehicles” in separate incidents.
Bus drivers taking industrial action have been injured on the picket line at two depots following confrontations with working staff, says union Unite.
Two striking workers at Go North East's Washington depot were hurt in separate incidents involving moving vehicles on Monday, it is alleged.
Another worker was injured at Percy Main depot on Tuesday, says the union.
Unite said members "had the right to lawfully picket without fear". Go North East has denied the claims.
The bus company's business director Ben Maxfield said there was "no evidence" of any such incidents taking place.
It comes as about 1,300 drivers from all six of Go North East depots walked out on Saturday, after last-minute talks over pay and conditions collapsed.
The firm has been unable to run any of its bus services since industrial action began - aside from contracted school journeys - leading to widespread travel disruption.
Dave Telford

Image caption,
Dave Telford, from Unite, said Go North East workers had been injured
The union alleges the skirmishes took place between striking workers and the bus firm's support staff who are not taking part in the week-long industrial action.
Two picket line members were injured in two separate collisions, one with a bus and one with a car, both at the entrance of the Washington depot on Monday where a picket line has been set up.
Another person was reportedly injured on the picket line after a clash involving a car at the firm's depot in Percy Main on Tuesday.
The bus firm refutes that working staff members have engaged in such behaviour.
It follows an internal memo from the firm issued earlier this week, and seen by the BBC, which warned against "frayed tempers and poor behaviour" among striking staff.
In the memo, the company claimed those on picket lines were "pretending" to have been injured, suggesting some had stood in front of vehicles to "impede their progress".

'Police investigating'​

Unite's regional officer Dave Telford said members had suffered injuries and the union had contacted police about the incidents.
"Our members have the right to lawful assembly and protest, as well as the right to lawfully picket without fear for their safety," said Mr Telford.
Northumbria Police said it was aware of a man being struck by a passing bus in Washington, but his injuries were not believed to be serious.
It added that their inquiries were continuing
 

jkkne

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If the police confirm an incident did occur yet Go North East deny it.

Who's lying?

That internal memo seems unecessarily inflammatory and yet more incredibly poor people management from the team at Bensham
 

jkkne

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The second week of strike action begins tomorrow.

Unite have also announced a continuous all out strike from October 28th if GNE fail to engage


Failure of employer to come back to table with improved offer sees continuous action announced

Go North East bus workers are to dramatically increase their strike action in their fight for better pay.

Workers at all Go North East depots will take part in all-out continuous strike action beginning on 28 October.

Over 1,300 Unite members have already been on strike for a week across the region and all depots will be out on strike a further week from Saturday 14th October.

The workers include bus drivers, engineers, maintenance workers and depot crews. The depots that will be affected by the industrial action are: Consett, Gateshead, Hexham, Percy Main (North Shields), Sunderland and Washington.
 

MoleStation

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I'm really surprised that there isn't more of an uproar about this. Two decently sized towns and a few villages have no public transport (Washington too). A lot of us are stranded, hospital appointments cancelled etc. Why hasn't a contingency been in operation by Durham County Council? Especially with the prospect of an indefinite no bus situation from the 28th.
Where's our rail link, Dick??
 

Swanny200

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Yet Gateshead college amongst other places are oblivious to how some of their students are going to get in especially from Washington where there is next to nothing but a lift is if you know someone with a car. There should be an uproar, we saw what happened last time, we have another week of it and a possible indefinite strike until it gets sorted.
 

M60lad

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Considering Go-North East also operate National Express contracts how are these affected by the current and upcoming Strikes? Surely it could be difficult for them getting vehicles out of the Depot considering most Depot staff will be on strike.

Also how will Go North East's National Express fleet be maintained considering most/all staff will be on strike?

Have National Express got a back-up plan in place should any Go North East's National Express services fail to operate?
 
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I have been told, and again this is from a driver at GNE, that the new pay " rise" is also linked to the company not paying drivers to check the bus and light mileage.

We had runs where 60% of the time was light ( running without passengers).

They must have a screw loose if they think the drivers will accept this.

They can't recruit and retain staff now, and their solution is to make things worse.
 

Andyh82

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I have been told, and again this is from a driver at GNE, that the new pay " rise" is also linked to the company not paying drivers to check the bus and light mileage.

We had runs where 60% of the time was light ( running without passengers).

They must have a screw loose if they think the drivers will accept this.

They can't recruit and retain staff now, and their solution is to make things worse.
That rumour has been dismissed by someone in the know on the North East bus forum
 

M803UYA

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Considering Go-North East also operate National Express contracts how are these affected by the current and upcoming Strikes? Surely it could be difficult for them getting vehicles out of the Depot considering most Depot staff will be on strike.

Also how will Go North East's National Express fleet be maintained considering most/all staff will be on strike?

Have National Express got a back-up plan in place should any Go North East's National Express services fail to operate?
That'll get expensive for Go North East quickly. National Express are fond of issuing fines for non operation. Might be cheaper to just pay the drivers what's being asked for if it drags on!
 

MotCO

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That'll get expensive for Go North East quickly. National Express are fond of issuing fines for non operation. Might be cheaper to just pay the drivers what's being asked for if it drags on!

Could GNE sub-contract the Nat Ex routes whilst the strike is on?
 

Eyersey468

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Why would that be, then? Why has one unit of drivers been bought off?
At EY there is an agreement in place that in the event of strike action NX services will still run, it's possible there is such an agreement at GNE
 

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