You don't engage with the community by having an event for a self inflicted service withdrawal. It's just tone-deaf.
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Go North East
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Yeah I meant the enthusiast community there. If I remember right, it was never advertised to the public and was ran by volunteers.
No arguments if it was aimed at the public, even known it's not exactly my cup of tea but each to their own.
It’s a very sad state of affairs. I used to commute on the X1 but had to start driving into Newcastle because of how badly the bus is delayed. Essentially no X1 would show up as eldern square between 4:30 and 5:20 for at least 3 of the 5 days I was in the office a week
Martijn Gilbert seemed like the man with the plan. He was socially active and a very vocal member of GNE management but now the curtain has been lifted it seems he laid the groundwork for a lot of the current trouble. Spending more money than they could ever earn back, rebranding routes that were well established, the list goes on
Martijn Gilbert seemed like the man with the plan. He was socially active and a very vocal member of GNE management but now the curtain has been lifted it seems he laid the groundwork for a lot of the current trouble. Spending more money than they could ever earn back, rebranding routes that were well established, the list goes on
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
There were so many instances that seemed to point to priorities being in the wrong place. Stuff like that, and the resurrection of old brands (like Voyager on secondhand deckers) and the old routemaster on the 21. All enthusiast indulgence which is all well and good if the firm is in good health and being well run...which it wasn't.
I don't agree about X-Lines. Having a consistent brand for faster links was no bad thing IMO - it was arguably a return to the Expresslink network of the 1990s.
However, the rest of the rebranding seemed so unnecessary as you say. Stuff that had a resonance was seemingly changed for, I can only surmise, because Gilbert wanted Best Impressions to do everything and a purge of the old names that "weren't from his watch". It made no sense, cost money and diverted energies away from the more day to day realities of service delivery and commercial returns.
Again, we had the glossy promo films for Voltra and a few other ones? Again, all well and good to spend money and focus energies if everything else is peachy...which is clearly wasn't. I bemoan firms that are lacklustre in their marketing but you have to get the base product right first.
I don't really see an issue with that, they were always going to go big on the marketing side of things with that because it was the company's first set of electric buses. Other companies have no doubt advertised their electric buses in that sort of way so they could be seen as "going green" and make themselves look good.
Much better than the "get your bum on board" that some buses now carry. Just look immature too me.
That looks so tacky to me. Especially when the buses that carry this livery haven’t been cleaned inside or out for weeks
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
That was ONE example of GNE marketing videos - there were others (X84/X85 to name but one). Most firms don't invest the time and money in doing them. They do photocalls and launch ceremonies (see the recent Stagecoach launch for their new electric vehicles).
I won't decry firms marketing themselves but you don't do that at the expense of day to day service delivery.
And yes, the bums on seats is (ironically) buttock clenchingly awful.
See I always think the X Lines was confused. If they removed all the other brands at the same time then maybe it might have worked but with the other brands it just got lost as another brand, imo it's an either or scenario, whether you wanted to make each brand have a tag to denote it's a fast route Red Arrows Express, Red Kite Express, Angel Express, or what not, might have worked though.
Mind speaking of that Voltra video, I still don't have a clue what the first one was about. It's something I'd expect from North Korea with the engineers and drivers parading to their superior (Gilbert). Very very bizarre marketing, especially when it missed the most important bit - where the buses actually went!
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
It was about a fast network (so akin to Expresslink of the 1990s) and so I can see the logic though not why they needed colour coding. They did retain a Red Kite link on those routes but only tenuously.
What I can't see was the point of having several established brands, with the Fab 56 being perhaps the most notable, being replaced. The rebrand of Quaylink to QuayCity... there were more important things to be expending energy and cash on.
Might be emblematic - too much style, not enough substance!
I was in Durham bus station last year and it really struck me how standards had slipped with Go North East, with some rather unkempt vehicles especially on the Prince Bishops service. Then I saw the Arriva Sapphire vehicles... I shouldn't indulge in whataboutery but they were even worse.
flymo
Established Member
Being back in the North East for the moment and living in GNE territory (47/X45) I have to say I dread looking up bus times etc to see when (or if) something is due.
Took a bus ride to Scarborough yesterday, so 47 into town then planning on the X10, as it is £3 but took the train for around a tenner, just to make sure I got to Middlesbrough for the hourly Scarborough bus. The X93 to Scarborough on an Arriva double decker was actually quite good and very busy, an older bus maybe, but didn't miss a beat on the hills.
The thing that gets me with GNE is that it just seems to be holding on and it doesn't take much to make it all go 'Pete Tong'. The boarding process also seems painfully slow, with almost everyone using contactless, those using cash (£2.50 in Tyne and Wear) seem to board faster.
Having said all of that, the current road layouts in both Newcastle and Gateshead centres are horrendous, drawn up by councils using their crayons I think, so I do excuse some late running but from Newcastle going home, I'll usually take any bus to Metrocentre as there seems to be a habit of turning inbound buses there. Or even take the 8 minute train journey to Metrocentre if I'm in that part of town as it seems more reliable.
Took a bus ride to Scarborough yesterday, so 47 into town then planning on the X10, as it is £3 but took the train for around a tenner, just to make sure I got to Middlesbrough for the hourly Scarborough bus. The X93 to Scarborough on an Arriva double decker was actually quite good and very busy, an older bus maybe, but didn't miss a beat on the hills.
The thing that gets me with GNE is that it just seems to be holding on and it doesn't take much to make it all go 'Pete Tong'. The boarding process also seems painfully slow, with almost everyone using contactless, those using cash (£2.50 in Tyne and Wear) seem to board faster.
Having said all of that, the current road layouts in both Newcastle and Gateshead centres are horrendous, drawn up by councils using their crayons I think, so I do excuse some late running but from Newcastle going home, I'll usually take any bus to Metrocentre as there seems to be a habit of turning inbound buses there. Or even take the 8 minute train journey to Metrocentre if I'm in that part of town as it seems more reliable.
Aye can't disagree about the express network, mind questions whether some of them actually were express though, especially the X45/X46 which the only thing express about them was the X.
I know this is a GoNorthEast thread but imo Arriva are on the up a bit, not that it takes much, since the takeover. Durham is much better now since they gained 14 E400 MMC's from Gillingham which has massively improved the fleet down there. There's definitely signs that they're actually trying to improve, with other little things like adding an extra bus to the Blyth expresses to try actually sort the timetable woes (still not really worked) and other little sensible things here and there.
GoNorthEast being the total opposite since their takeover where things have really gone South.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Last time I was up was just before Christmas, and that was a mad rush of seeing relatives so not seen too much of those. Arriva NE had sunk to such a low level and some of the damage is irreparable but I hope they can improve that business. As for Go North East, it's been a tough few years and some bad decisions made.
It really needs management focus to get the operational side of things improved as well as some investment in the fleet - I forget how many vehicles are due but it's not a huge number?
Go Ahead is a strange group. The Brighton and Hove/Metrobus, and Go South Coast operations are as good as you'll find, and they seem to be turning around the Carousel operation so it's no longer the poor relation of Oxford Bus. Meanwhile, East Yorkshire are seemingly hell bent on securing whatever low margin contracted work they can get, whilst there are some other OpCos like GNE and Go East that seem desperately out of sorts.
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Yeah agreed with the comments on GoAhead.
It's just a few electrics for the 21, 58 and X66 as far as I'm aware. Can't remember the numbers off the top of my head.
Sadly I can't see them improving now, it feels like there's a very much a goal of spend as little money as you can, we're losing it soon anyway so what's the point attitude (franchising). I can understand it, in a way, from a business point of view as I'd probably think the same but it's not ideal for the punters who rely on the services.
I know it won't be popular, but imo NECA (North East Combined Authority) need to take control of it whether that's doing what Liverpool done and banning vehicles beyond 15 years on contracts or alternatively purchasing buses themselves which they own to get some much needed investment into the region. I know some will say it's not their job, but they've kind of caused this limbo by jumping on the bandwagon of franchising and having no intermediate plan.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I blame the operators for the limbo. Nexus, as was, tried to get franchising over the line but they were sunk by an "ambush defence" by the big three operators. Go, Arriva, and Stagecoach all promised the earth to get the franchising model thrown out and it worked. Sadly all three have failed to actually follow through on any of their promises; I predicted that would happen at the time.
Stagecoach have just about plodded along doing what they always do but that's as good as it gets. No frills (and the E300s in particular are definitely no frills...) but at least they mostly turn up when they say they will. Both Go and Arriva have both crashed their operations right off the side of the cliff, even before Covid hit.
I've since moved away from the area- literally two weeks before Covid hit- so can't comment on what it's like day to day now. I get back every six months or so and so my opinion will only ever be a snapshot. But I was shocked at just how bad Go North East were when I was back in June last year, they'd even sunk below Arriva. That was something I never thought possible- although Arriva's Durham City operations are almost as horrific, to be fair.
It's definitely the management side that needs fixing. Not to pick on Ben Maxfield (I lie, it is to pick on him) but defenestrating him and replacing him with someone who actually has a base level of competence might be a good start. I'm surprised they haven't already found him some non-role at head office from where he can't do any more damage.
In fairness to Maxfield, though, he's not exactly been given much support from Featham, who is mostly conspicuous by his absence. It's fair to say that running Go North West and Go North East is simply too much work for one man. And linking GNE and GNW has had plenty of unforeseen consequences too, not least that the drivers and engineering staff suddenly noticed that their Mancunian colleagues were getting a lot more money for the same job.
Fleet investment? A few new buses wouldn't help but, really, they need to equip their engineering department with the resources to fix what they've got. Including wages. Bringing up the Mancunian engineers, who are still getting paid a decent whack more, seems a particularly bone-headed thing to do. It's certainly a quick way of shredding whatever goodwill managed to survive the last strike.
Ex-London deckers are never going to be sexy buses but there's no reason why they should be this unreliable.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Now, we've been through this before. It's easy to blame the operators for the franchise process failing but they were always going to defend their business. If it was your business, you would do the same. The fact was that Nexus cocked up their figures. They were fundamental issues that anyone in business would identify - namely you're going to spend X and that is dependant on establishing an income of Y through increased patronage. However, there was going to be a time lag as you build up that patronage so how are you going to fund it? That was the question that was asked - TWICE. Twice Nexus failed to get their figures to tally, as judged by an independent panel. Perhaps if Nexus didn't wish to be ambushed - TWICE - they might have considered getting their figures right?
Also, remember what the operators were offering and why? Those were offers that were predicated on Nexus not going ahead. Now had Nexus engaged with the operators, they could have got those offers made into legally binding commitments. That was never done.
That doesn't excuse the operators and the mismanagement that we've seen subsequently from Arriva and Go Ahead.
I head up to the North East (more south Durham than T&W, in fairness) so I see more Arriva. I would say that Go North East is, in general, still marginally better than Arriva. Standards have slipped so far with Go North East, it's shocking compared to how it was under Peter Huntley and Kevin Carr. Huntley was a man with a vision and a strategy - he outmanoeuvred his Arriva opposites comprehensively, with a clear objective in improving services, marketing etc. Kevin Carr was a decent bloke - a bit dull but with a strong grounding in that firm. FWIW, my view is that Gilbert simply concerned himself with too much marketing and not enough on the day to day operation and perhaps that included being over it enough with the people below him.
As for Arriva, that's got a long way to go. I never thought I would see the outright closure of Jesmond (yes, I expected it to be vacated and replaced) and simply ceding routes. That said, it's par for the course for a firm that has exited so many routes so that its Co Durham network is now skeletal. Arriva NE has always been variable in terms of quality, continuing a tradition from the United days. North of the Tyne, vehicles were always smarter and there felt a commitment from the staff to the public. Durham depot was always militant, Darlington meh, and Teesside bimbled through life. However, seeing the Sapphire vehicles in Durham - there ain't much sparkle there! Don't think things are much better in Teesside - it's all a bit dire.
Stagecoach are a bit basic but they are reliable. They've managed to take on extra work (including a return to Darlington) and even running Hartlepool to Durham whilst GNE can't manage what they have. I've yet to see the new Yutongs on the Es but I suspect they're decent fleet and if we've learnt one thing, you've got to get the basics of operation right before worrying about the added value.
I don't know Ben Maxfield, and I can't say how good or bad he is, or if he's hamstrung by decisions on a corporate level. I know of people who worked for Huntley/Carr, and I trusted their judgement, and that's the summit of my insight. It certainly looked like Featham has had his hands full with GNW - that was naturally going to be a big transition for T1 in any case. As for drafting in staff on high wages from Manchester...it's a knee jerk reaction to the problems they have, same as getting in agency drivers.
Given that some time has passed since the strike, it probably needs a new person to lead Go North East and really start to get under the skin of the operation and deal with the fundamental issues there.
Especially if they’re streetlites
I only travel on the buses in the north east very occasionally but in my experience the X21 and 21 are excellent but you often see the 21 unbranded and my one return trip on the 16 (car in garage) the bus was immaculate inside and out.
Generally the buses seem no cleaner or dirtier than central London where I probably use buses more
Generally the buses seem no cleaner or dirtier than central London where I probably use buses more
They’ve been horrendous this winter so far. At least they’ve stopped using single deckers but there’s cancellations and breakdowns galore especially on the X21.
A cleaner has appeared at Gateshead on the odd day but the ex London stock really is filthy, leaking roofs and awful blue lights. It’s a massive downgrade from the street decks which seem to stuck on local routes near riverside or predominantly on the X21
DanNCL
Established Member
Another Citaro has made it onto the 28/29, though this time it would appear that GNE paid the £50 for it to run into Newcastle.
As someone who uses the buses in the North East to commute daily, albeit mainly using the other two large operators, there are some observations I've made which I thought I'd write up here to add some more detail to what has already been reported, and to give an idea of my perception of GNE as someone who could use their services to commute (but actively chooses not to do so).
The state of GNE as a business seems to have been in decline for a while, but has accelerated somewhat since the 2023 strike. I don't believe everything was great under the previous leadership either, but it feels like the current management have increased the speed of decline 10-fold. As has been discussed previously, Nigel Featham has form for this, and if you look at Arriva NE it's just about getting to its feet again after his spell in charge. While the goodwill of the staff seemed to be just about holding the business together prior to the strike, I think we're now experiencing the full effects of the catastrophic damage it did to staff morale. Happy staff don't leak to the BBC the things which have been leaked to the BBC...
Fleet wise, the huge amount of ex-London stock is a fantastic starting place. Ex-London stock is obviously nothing new to the NE, but the condition that GNE are running theirs in is truly shocking for the largest operator in the region. They are continuing to run dual door stock on frontline work, including the flagship 21, which is not compatible with the infrastructure in the North East in the slightest. This has led to a huge number of instances of disabled passengers being left behind because of the ramp being on the middle door, which is not accessible in bus stations. The company have been pressured into eventually (and slowly...) converting some of these, but from an accessibility POV it baffles me how they haven't been pulled up for this in an official capacity. Aside from the accessibility issues, the overall state of these vehicles is very poor, as others have mentioned. Of course they are frequently on routes such as the 21 due to the beyond poor reliability of the stock which should be allocated to the route, namely the batch of 2017 Streetdecks. These are frequently found in Riverside depot, roaming the streets of Gateshead on local work, or inexplicably filling in for an E400 MMC on the X10 (despite the fact they can barely cope on a 21).
To showcase the decision making at the company, 6995/6 were acquired and painted into Toon Tour livery ahead of last summer. They were used on the service at the start of the summer until the fines started to roll in, when it became clear that no due diligence was performed prior to spending a hefty sum of money on the vehicles - they were not CAZ compliant.
Moving onto service delivery, it's poor as an understatement. As stated initially, I use a combination of Arriva NE and Stagecoach NE to get to work daily. Every morning, services from both of those operators turn up (generally bang on time), get me to work, and then come home time they're just as reliable (bar odd occasions where there's evidently been an accident or similar along the route, which is understandable and not the norm). Both operators manage to transport me on relatively clean vehicles which, while not winning any prizes for luxury, are modern and fairly pleasant places to be. I could use a GNE service as part of this commute, however the unreliability of their services generally have put me off doing so. Over the past 2 weeks alone, I have had a few other things to do after work, and for each of these the Google Maps recommendation was to use a GNE service for at least part of the trip. Prior to embarking on each of the trips I've checked bustimes.org to confirm whether the GNE service was running - each time it was not, and so I had to either use a later service or walk to a different stop and use a different operator entirely. My decision to omit them from my commute initially was in part due to their horrendous approach to service regulation, which has been documented before, but is genuinely baffling. Some trips they will happily operate very late, to the point of it being overtaken by the one behind and still not being regulated, while others will be span at places such as Gateshead Interchange when only a few minutes behind schedule - simply put I had had far too many negative experiences of GNE services previously to want to rely on them daily.
The company as a whole seems rudderless. I can remember service changes recently from both Arriva and Stagecoach which included some positive network growth and, while admittedly it was all largely contract awards, I can't remember the last set of GNE changes which could be considered as growing the network in any real way. There's no indication of any new vehicle deliveries to improve the current dire situation, and it'll need a significant amount of investment to replace all of the vehicles which would arguably be considered life-expired at any other large operator.
The state of GNE as a business seems to have been in decline for a while, but has accelerated somewhat since the 2023 strike. I don't believe everything was great under the previous leadership either, but it feels like the current management have increased the speed of decline 10-fold. As has been discussed previously, Nigel Featham has form for this, and if you look at Arriva NE it's just about getting to its feet again after his spell in charge. While the goodwill of the staff seemed to be just about holding the business together prior to the strike, I think we're now experiencing the full effects of the catastrophic damage it did to staff morale. Happy staff don't leak to the BBC the things which have been leaked to the BBC...
Fleet wise, the huge amount of ex-London stock is a fantastic starting place. Ex-London stock is obviously nothing new to the NE, but the condition that GNE are running theirs in is truly shocking for the largest operator in the region. They are continuing to run dual door stock on frontline work, including the flagship 21, which is not compatible with the infrastructure in the North East in the slightest. This has led to a huge number of instances of disabled passengers being left behind because of the ramp being on the middle door, which is not accessible in bus stations. The company have been pressured into eventually (and slowly...) converting some of these, but from an accessibility POV it baffles me how they haven't been pulled up for this in an official capacity. Aside from the accessibility issues, the overall state of these vehicles is very poor, as others have mentioned. Of course they are frequently on routes such as the 21 due to the beyond poor reliability of the stock which should be allocated to the route, namely the batch of 2017 Streetdecks. These are frequently found in Riverside depot, roaming the streets of Gateshead on local work, or inexplicably filling in for an E400 MMC on the X10 (despite the fact they can barely cope on a 21).
To showcase the decision making at the company, 6995/6 were acquired and painted into Toon Tour livery ahead of last summer. They were used on the service at the start of the summer until the fines started to roll in, when it became clear that no due diligence was performed prior to spending a hefty sum of money on the vehicles - they were not CAZ compliant.
Moving onto service delivery, it's poor as an understatement. As stated initially, I use a combination of Arriva NE and Stagecoach NE to get to work daily. Every morning, services from both of those operators turn up (generally bang on time), get me to work, and then come home time they're just as reliable (bar odd occasions where there's evidently been an accident or similar along the route, which is understandable and not the norm). Both operators manage to transport me on relatively clean vehicles which, while not winning any prizes for luxury, are modern and fairly pleasant places to be. I could use a GNE service as part of this commute, however the unreliability of their services generally have put me off doing so. Over the past 2 weeks alone, I have had a few other things to do after work, and for each of these the Google Maps recommendation was to use a GNE service for at least part of the trip. Prior to embarking on each of the trips I've checked bustimes.org to confirm whether the GNE service was running - each time it was not, and so I had to either use a later service or walk to a different stop and use a different operator entirely. My decision to omit them from my commute initially was in part due to their horrendous approach to service regulation, which has been documented before, but is genuinely baffling. Some trips they will happily operate very late, to the point of it being overtaken by the one behind and still not being regulated, while others will be span at places such as Gateshead Interchange when only a few minutes behind schedule - simply put I had had far too many negative experiences of GNE services previously to want to rely on them daily.
The company as a whole seems rudderless. I can remember service changes recently from both Arriva and Stagecoach which included some positive network growth and, while admittedly it was all largely contract awards, I can't remember the last set of GNE changes which could be considered as growing the network in any real way. There's no indication of any new vehicle deliveries to improve the current dire situation, and it'll need a significant amount of investment to replace all of the vehicles which would arguably be considered life-expired at any other large operator.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
I agree, but it seems that they simply haven't considered the fact that parachuting in GNW engineers on top dollar will only be interpreted by GNE staff as having their faces rubbed in it.
In fairness, I don't know what's going on in the inside either, I only see what's presented to the public, either corporately or through forum tittle-tattle. I thought the way he handled the strike showed a notable lack of management nous; you don't put out many fires with a flamethrower. I think it is telling that performance has dropped even further off the cliff since the strike ended.
It is even more remarkable that the BBC local media are basically calling him a liar. Even beyond anything else, the fact that the local media clearly have the receipts from inside GNE for what they're saying says everything that you need to know. If this sort of stuff is making it into the public domain then, quite frankly, I don't see how his position is tenable. They must actively despise him if the arguments are being played out in the local media.
GNE under Carr was dull but functional. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's why Stagecoach are plodding along in much the same way they always have done. Ultimately people just want the bus to turn up when the operator says it will. My ire at Stagecoach was always, if I'm honest, because, in the 2000-2010 period, Stagecoach lost sight of that: schedules were too tight and there were too many single deckers in the fleet. Late and overcrowded is always a bad look.
The first rule of the bus industry is that you don't have the marketing side writing cheques that the operational side can't cash. It seems GNE haven't learned that lesson; the promotional guff coming out of GNE is as bad as anything under Gilbert- Get Your Bum on Board(!)- but they're not getting the operational stuff right.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
You're never going to be able to avoid that (short of having some socialist ideal where everyone is paid the same) because if you don't draft people in that way, and you don't use agency, what do you do? I mean, you could simply pay everyone a lot more and poach people but then a) you get into an auction and b) how do you recoup the increased costs?
It's an imperfect solution but again, made worse by some of the decisions like closing Chester le Street.
Stagecoach in the early 2000s had a bad time with vandalism on deckers. IIRC, didn't they lose a newish Trident to arson somewhere round Walker, so the batch was transferred to Manchester.
It's more fundamental than that. It's the first rule of marketing in that you can't effectively market an inherently bad product, in terms of quality or functionality or value. In this instance, getting the product right at a base level isn't happening.
In fairness, with the excuses given, you can't help but question their legitimacy, we went from "extreme cold temperatures" to "grit and road salt" it's almost as if winter is a new phenomenon, whilst these can have some effect, many of the buses had been out of commission for weeks prior to the cold snap.
The bus industry in general seems to be in this deadly spirl of everything is disposable and instead of doing anything of real merit instead just throw everything into advertising/publicity, some of these feel so far removed from reality and instead live in corporate back patting land, the UK Bus Awards make you laugh at times, GNE got the silver award in the 'culture change' category last year for 'From Strikes to Strength' despite the fact that on the ground, it feels as bad (if not worse) than it was prior to said strike and looking likely another could be on the horizon, not to mention the 'Elite Driver' campaign was effectively nominated twice for the same category as it was done at both Go North East and Go North West, whilst it's good they've managed to do good in recruiting new staff, retaining the ones they already have/had is another matter that just gets shrugged off.
JKP
Member
Have just returned from a weekend on Tyneside. To be honest from what I saw in both Gateshead and Newcastle, Go NE buses looked ok to me. They were not filthy dirty on the outside despite the weather. I would agree though that the Get Your Bum Onboard message looks brash and vulgar and does nothing to attract potential passengers.
I was surprised on the number of Stagecoach single decks operating in Newcastle. Has this increased in recent times? Stagecoach seemed also to be affected by breakdowns today, one dd and one E200 observed.
I was surprised on the number of Stagecoach single decks operating in Newcastle. Has this increased in recent times? Stagecoach seemed also to be affected by breakdowns today, one dd and one E200 observed.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
There's certainly an element of being damned either way. But if you're telling your existing staff that there's no money for a payrise but you can suddenly bring in people on more money when the muck hits the fan, that's only going to shred whatever goodwill remained. Especially as the chronic and persistent low wages are why they're short-staffed in the first place.
Closing Chester-le-Street makes things operationally more difficult when there are delays or breakdowns. Especially as they chose to move to so much of it to the MetroCentre, which is a traffic-snarled mess even at the best of times. But it's not why there are more breakdowns in the first place.
There was a certain amount of vandalism but I think it was only ever an excuse. Stagecoach kept their high floor deckers and ran them through the absolute roughest parts of Newcastle (Scotswood, Benwell, Elswick, Byker) on the 1, as well as semi-regular appearances on the 39 and 40. And it's not like where the ALX400s went to- Hulme, Moss Side, Rusholme, Gorton- were exactly immune to vandalism.
A bit like buses moving from GNE to GNW and GNE being left with the ex-London dross, the real reason was almost certainly financial.
markydh
Member
Newcastle has progressively had its decker stock raided by other north east depots due to various contracts, so much so that there is a shortage and there are permanent single decker boards on routes that were formerly 100% decker operated. It’s been an issue for a couple of years now.
Not too sure about that, it's noticeable the three depots that are having the biggest issues are the three which got the work shunted in from Chester Le Street. I've heard that a lot of the old guard retired and left the company. Losing experience like that can't be replaced overnight and by the sounds of it, has never been replaced at all.
Hexham being closed didn't help either since that's an outstation of Consett now.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Perhaps the greater issue isn't chronic and persistent low wages as they'd simply not have anyone. The bigger issue, which is where I think @Snex is coming from, is that they've closed or relocated depots. Drivers and fitters who previously lived in walking distance of depots are now expected to travel in their own time/expense and they've walked.
Note: exactly the same thing happened when Arriva closed Alnwick and Bishop Auckland depots.
Again, I'll refer to Arriva closing Bishop Auckland depot. It was easy to operate those routes that served Durham (6) and Darlington (1/5) but other routes became the subject to all manner of interworking. Reliability went through the floor, and you can see the same with Chester le Street.
The solution was to close Picktree Lane but replace it with a smaller, cheaper option.
I was told at the time, by a reputable source, that the new kit was getting a hammering. I know buses get vandalised wherever but it was really bad so they moved those Tridents out and remember that they did swap them for similar aged ALX300s so the financial difference was pretty minimal.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
That's an aspect that I hadn't considered and certainly makes sense.
It may also explain why Riverside has always had such a poor reputation for reliability. Formed from the closures of Winlaton and Sunderland Road, Riverside has seemingly always had issues- at least if you believe the forum tittle-tattle.
You may well put up with lower wages if you have a 30-second commute, but if you're having to drive to your job then that opens up your options. I see Volvo Truck & Bus have just expanded their main dealer service in Washington, as a random example.
What does this mean for GNE?
Washington depot has been hit and miss the last few years