Oh, I always thought the 40/50 were both open toppers! That might explain why the ‘cumfy’ motors have gone on the 40 then; are they being allocated to Swanage do we know?
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I wondered where the former 1 vehicles had got to, having not seen them yet on other Bluestar routes.
OptareOlympus
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For the summer. They're officially allocated for schools only but the closed top Evosetis are struggling now and availability of them for the 40 has been virtually nil recently, hence the 164x working most 40 trips.
Flange Squeal
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It’s the 50, 60 and 70 that are open-top. I’m sure in the past it’s not been too clear beyond the images of the buses on the website, but this year the online PDF timetables do have some text at the bottom reading “*Breezer 50, 60 & 70 are normally operated with open top buses but in certain circumstances we may have to use a closed top bus”.
Why are the closed top evosetis struggling?
OptareOlympus
Member
They are into their 11th summer working the 40 and worn out. They were originally planned for replacement in 2021 but Covid delayed the order and by the time they could have been replaced, Volvo had discontinued the B5TL. As has been said many times before, there are currently no options available to replace the Swanage fleet. Nothing with suitable ferry lifts and no manufacturer prepared or able to supply convertibles.
More ‘worn out’ than the E400s replacing them, which are the same age and have spent all their life being thrashed on the Bluestar 1?!
Seems odd to have allocated them schools only, they’re surely the lowest capacity deckers on the fleet? And the seating will likely get trashed!
GeekyJamez
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Surely it's time for the New Forest Tour buses to be replaced? The convertible Volvo B7TL are now 20 years old!
It’s probably the same reason. If they can’t replace the breezers, they can’t cascade them onto the new forest tour (and the breezer 60). You’d assume that would have been the plan
OptareOlympus
Member
Neither the 14xx Scania Optares or 17xx Evosetis can be cascaded to Lymington for the New Forest Tour due to their height. An Evoseti had its ride height lowered for route trials a few years back but there still wasn't sufficient clearance under Ampress Bridge.
The New Forest Tours are being cut back this year with a reduced vehicle requirement so their long term future is by no means certain now anyway.
P
Nothing particularly unusual about elderly open toppers, and of course they’re especially useful as they retain their roofs for reattachment and use during the winter months. That being said they’re getting tatty as hell, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to give them a light internal refresh if they’re expected to last another season or two!
Ive just had a look at that, the timetable is here
The PVR goes from 6 buses to 4 buses
It used to be 2 buses each but now only the green route keeps 2 buses. The red and blue reduces to 1 bus
So presumably BYD don’t live up to their name?
Flange Squeal
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In February, Bluestar announced the Marwell Zoo service to/from Fair Oak and Eastleigh was returning…
…but it appears it won’t be seeing out its planned season. They have posted the following news item on their website:
Source: https://www.bluestarbus.co.uk/timetable-improvements-sunday-23-february
…but it appears it won’t be seeing out its planned season. They have posted the following news item on their website:
Source: https://www.bluestarbus.co.uk/bluestar-z00-route-withdrawn
No sign of the Sundays and bank holiday services to Stockbridge and from Winchester to Petersfield.
WibbleWobble
Member
Like the Z00, third party funding is at play here as they are funded by a railway partnership group or similar. TBH, starting Z00 so early in the season was quite bold on Marwell's part!
Have noticed more double-deckers on the 20 since the schools returned from half term, compared to before half-term.
In particular the workings including the 1252 and 1322 journeys seem to have possibly gone over to double-deckers though not consistently, seems to be around 50:50. Is this due to increased traffic as it's summer? That said, as the route passes though Portswood I would expect it to be busier when the students are around. I do notice the 20 goes through phases of being mostly single-deckers and phases of being mostly double-deckers during school term times, though without any clear pattern in terms of time of year.
I've also noticed that one working involving Totton-side journeys appears to be consistently operated by Empress Road vehicles. This includes the 0940 on the 8 and then the 1150 on the 11, though haven't checked the full working. This was the case before half-term as well as now. Is there a vehicle and/or driver shortage on the Totton side or does it just work out more efficient to have this covered by Empress Road?
In particular the workings including the 1252 and 1322 journeys seem to have possibly gone over to double-deckers though not consistently, seems to be around 50:50. Is this due to increased traffic as it's summer? That said, as the route passes though Portswood I would expect it to be busier when the students are around. I do notice the 20 goes through phases of being mostly single-deckers and phases of being mostly double-deckers during school term times, though without any clear pattern in terms of time of year.
I've also noticed that one working involving Totton-side journeys appears to be consistently operated by Empress Road vehicles. This includes the 0940 on the 8 and then the 1150 on the 11, though haven't checked the full working. This was the case before half-term as well as now. Is there a vehicle and/or driver shortage on the Totton side or does it just work out more efficient to have this covered by Empress Road?
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WibbleWobble
Member
From what I know.... it is currently exam season at Barton Peveril College so the timetables are different (especially on Mondays) which has meant that the bus workings are different. There has also been a road closure in Bitterne that have meant long diversions and have impacted the cycles the buses work so the 20 was mixed in with some of the 13/14 diagrams.
As for the Totton journeys, this has also happened in the past as there is often a Southampton (or previously Eastleigh) bus parked up in the city for a few hours. A Totton driver takes the Southampton bus for this portion, as there is no suitable place in a Totton line (especially since Totton runs some X7 trips). There are some journeys on the 17 that have been run by Southampton for a while, but I think this is because Totton is at or close to capacity.
As for the Totton journeys, this has also happened in the past as there is often a Southampton (or previously Eastleigh) bus parked up in the city for a few hours. A Totton driver takes the Southampton bus for this portion, as there is no suitable place in a Totton line (especially since Totton runs some X7 trips). There are some journeys on the 17 that have been run by Southampton for a while, but I think this is because Totton is at or close to capacity.
The actual workings seem to be the same as before the half term but some have gone over to deckers, at least on some days. One of them winds up on the 1600 journey on the 14 later in the day, which is a journey I've noticed being a single/double decker mix in the past (though not for a while). I wonder if this journey - or indeed some 20s running near Bitterne Park School - are subject to seasonal variations in school and college traffic?
The road closure radically altered the workings but this came to an end after the Easter holiday. There is still some 20 and 13/14 interworking but this seems to be long term.
The addition of the 21 last autumn led to some more complexity in the workings as the vehicles for the 21 seemed to be sourced from workings on the 10/13/14 cycle or the 20, with the 10/13/14/20 journeys covered by school/college deckers which would have otherwise been parked up (as described below).
Ah ok thanks, yes there are a lot of Southampton deckers parked up in the middle of the day (between school/college work) some of which appear to be diagrammed to come out and do midday journeys on some public routes, especially the 4, 13, 14, 20, and the lunchtime 61. The working I mentioned (0940 on the 8 then 1150 on the 11) is indeed operated by an older Southampton decker so probably runs school/college journeys earlier and later (haven't checked).
Now you mention it I think the same thing happened shortly after all the ex-City Red routes started, I seem to remember a 12 in the middle of the day operated by an (as was) Eastleigh vehicle.
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Another observation I’ve noticed since the latest timetable change is that Merley now has 7 buses after 21:00 from Wimborne on Mondays to Saturdays, but Corfe Mullen has none. I’ve been wondering whether it would make more sense to divert the three late evening Wimborne - Poole journeys via Corfe Mullen, as Merley alone doesn’t necessarily need that many evening buses with route 6 now on an enhanced timetable.
341o2
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Any reason why? Seems a shame, especially as the New Forest is becoming increasingly congested due to visitor numbers. 1826 & 1827 have had some mechanical issues recently.
EnviroExplorer
Member
Prices of the New Forest Tour have always seemed rather high from an outsider to the area. It’s something I’d have liked to do but on a budget it simply doesn’t offer value I’d expect. £20.50 for an adult is more akin to what you’d expect for the likes of City Sightseeing. Meanwhile take the Stagecoach Peak District Sightseer as a perhaps more similar operation, £13 for an adult there. Although the standard routes around the New Forest are sparse at best, it’s not like the Tour ticket can be used as you like on those either, just one connecting service to and from.
With Tours previously hourly and this year down on that (?), can’t help but think it’s not a great outlook especially with ageing vehicles and no replacements available.
With Tours previously hourly and this year down on that (?), can’t help but think it’s not a great outlook especially with ageing vehicles and no replacements available.
I’d hazard a guess that the equivalent Stagecoach vehicles are likely kept in better condition, too? I do like the East Lancs open toppers but they’re in a state!
Flange Squeal
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I did the three routes last year with my partner and she’s very much not a bus person but still thoroughly enjoyed them despite the cost. With commentary along the way, they aren’t too dissimilar to a City Sightseeing operation really, although the reduced frequency on the Blue and Red this year I guess does sadly mean you need to plan a bit more carefully if hopping on and off at attractions along the way this year.
The cheaper Peak Sightseer’s offering of two routes at around 2.5hrs and 50min return trip offer less ride length than the New Forest Tour’s three lots of two hour long circulars, but admittedly the average person probably isn’t doing all three in a day! The two day product on the Peak Sightseer is 48hrs for £22, where as the New Forest Tour’s is two single day tickets at £28.50 if booked online, so it does mean if on say a week’s holiday you can use it over any two days based on whichever two days that week have the best weather rather than having to be consecutive.
The New Forest Tour’s tickets as previously mentioned do at least allow you to get to the New Forest to start your day (handy if living or holidaying somewhere else) on a number of connecting routes - Morebus X1/X2 from Bournemouth, X3 from Salisbury, & X6 from Bournemouth/Poole, and Bluestar 6 from Southampton & 8/9/112 from Southampton/Hythe. It’s a shame the Peak Sightseer’s don’t allow the same, unless able to catch one of the morning/late afternoon extensions to Chesterfield/not central Sheffield. Validity on Stagecoach’s 170 from Chesterfield would allow a bit more flexibility timewise, while the ability to use them on the 160 to/from Matlock would be a handy inclusion for tourists staying in that area.
The New Forest Park Authority website does say “The Tour is operated by morebus in partnership with the New Forest National Park Authority and is sponsored by local businesses” (click here for source), but I have no idea what the financial amount is like. I believe the Peak Sightseer was set up using Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) money from the council? Again I don’t know how much, but that may have helped keep fares lower?
By coincidence I’m actually sampling the Peak Sightseer very soon, which I’m thoroughly looking forward to, so it will be an interesting comparison!
The cheaper Peak Sightseer’s offering of two routes at around 2.5hrs and 50min return trip offer less ride length than the New Forest Tour’s three lots of two hour long circulars, but admittedly the average person probably isn’t doing all three in a day! The two day product on the Peak Sightseer is 48hrs for £22, where as the New Forest Tour’s is two single day tickets at £28.50 if booked online, so it does mean if on say a week’s holiday you can use it over any two days based on whichever two days that week have the best weather rather than having to be consecutive.
The New Forest Tour’s tickets as previously mentioned do at least allow you to get to the New Forest to start your day (handy if living or holidaying somewhere else) on a number of connecting routes - Morebus X1/X2 from Bournemouth, X3 from Salisbury, & X6 from Bournemouth/Poole, and Bluestar 6 from Southampton & 8/9/112 from Southampton/Hythe. It’s a shame the Peak Sightseer’s don’t allow the same, unless able to catch one of the morning/late afternoon extensions to Chesterfield/not central Sheffield. Validity on Stagecoach’s 170 from Chesterfield would allow a bit more flexibility timewise, while the ability to use them on the 160 to/from Matlock would be a handy inclusion for tourists staying in that area.
The New Forest Park Authority website does say “The Tour is operated by morebus in partnership with the New Forest National Park Authority and is sponsored by local businesses” (click here for source), but I have no idea what the financial amount is like. I believe the Peak Sightseer was set up using Bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) money from the council? Again I don’t know how much, but that may have helped keep fares lower?
By coincidence I’m actually sampling the Peak Sightseer very soon, which I’m thoroughly looking forward to, so it will be an interesting comparison!
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I do wonder how much success a regular service bus along, say, the Southampton-Totton-Ashurst-Lyndhurst-Burley-Christchurch-Bournemouth route would be in the summer months, priced in the same way as other service buses.
Such a thing did exist at the end of the 80s and in the early 90s (X1/2/3, later X33/34/35, if I remember right) but is long-gone now.
But could a seasonal version (say weekends and school holidays late May-early Sep) work, I wonder? Source it with vehicles and drivers normally employed on school/college duties? Run it two-hourly-ish, which would presumably need two vehicles?
341o2
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In 1997, Wilts & Dorset ran several Summertime Specials, consisting of a single journey out and back
X21 Seaton & Beer
X22 Lulworth, Bovington & Monkey World
X23 Marwell Zoo & Winchester
X24 Bath
X25 Portsmouth & Southsea
X31 Lymington to Salisbury
X32 Lymington Dorchester & Weymouth
X34 Lymington to Paulton's Park & Chichester
X35 Lymington to Portsmouth & Southsea
X36 Lymington to Monkey World, Bovington, Corfe Castle & Swanage
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
(I am aware that Wilts & Dorset have been owned by Go Ahead, and then rebranded Morebus)
Incidentally, the 120 was Lymington to Sway before becoming the C32/33, and now has reverted to being route 120 again.
X21 Seaton & Beer
X22 Lulworth, Bovington & Monkey World
X23 Marwell Zoo & Winchester
X24 Bath
X25 Portsmouth & Southsea
X31 Lymington to Salisbury
X32 Lymington Dorchester & Weymouth
X34 Lymington to Paulton's Park & Chichester
X35 Lymington to Portsmouth & Southsea
X36 Lymington to Monkey World, Bovington, Corfe Castle & Swanage
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Lymington has quite a few 05 registration buses, which were formerly Wilts & Dorset, and briefly 2009 (Swindon Bus), which is now at Poole
(I am aware that Wilts & Dorset have been owned by Go Ahead, and then rebranded Morebus)
Incidentally, the 120 was Lymington to Sway before becoming the C32/33, and now has reverted to being route 120 again.
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Stephen1001
Member
The X34 and X35 ran up until 2008, although their route was via Ringwood rather than Christchurch (the Burley-Christchurch stretch was on the 176 at the time, now the 125). A partial successor, the 35 between Southampton and Ringwood, lasted until 2010 before also falling by the wayside. I used it a few times and it was never very busy.
Ringwood-Southampton in general is a corridor that's littered with unsuccessful attempts to make it work. Velvet had a go on a fairly direct route after the old X33 was withdrawn, as did Dorset Sprinter a few years later. The most recent was Gardbus 139, a summer Sunday service via Fordingbridge and Paultons Park that ceased in 2015. Likewise Ringwood-Christchurch, now reduced to running only three days a week - Thompson's Tours had a go at a weekend service from Bournemouth to Salisbury, recreating the old 238 from 30 years earlier, but it didn't last long either.
All of this would rather suggest that the current tour format is probably the only sustainable one.
Don’t forget route 5 by the short-lived Southampton Mini Link. This operated Ringwood - Southampton direct via the A31, then via the A336 through Cadnam and Totton.
From memory these could be done using an explorer ticket so were excellent value for money especially for families
It’s a rather fascinating history, if nothing else! Some routes, for whatever reason, are just doomed to be unsuccessful bus territory it seems. Another nearby example is Portsmouth - Southampton, which has seen an array of attempts through the years in various different formats, although does currently sustain a regular service operated by First - albeit not their first attempt at that corridor!