Gold Card by direct debit?

[redbutton]

Hi all,

I've noticed that some TOCs have started offering 12-for-11 monthly seasons by Direct Debit, and it appears that EC does an annual season paid by quarterly direct debit. Would that be a Gold Card?

Is anyone aware of a way to get a Gold Card but pay for it in installments, other than by bank or employer loan?

 

[neilm]

Hi, I saw this with southern but it appears they send you 12 monthly tickets one each month and the last one is 'free'.

I do not think you could do a gold card by dd as you could cancel after the 1st month and still have it for 11 months. Hopefully ITSO will help with all this!

 

[redbutton]

I know the 12-for-11 wouldn't be, but the EC quarterly one is unclear about whether you get an annual ticket or a series of shorter ones.

Though it definitely makes sense about possibly canceling.

 

[Haywain]

The East Coast direct debit scheme gives you a series of quarterly seasons. If you want a Gold Card you needd to pay for the year up front, and buy at Kings Cross or Stevenage (the only EC stations that issue Gold Cards).

 

[maniacmartin]

The East Coast direct debit scheme gives you a series of quarterly seasons. If you want a Gold Card you needd to pay for the year up front, and buy at Kings Cross or Stevenage (the only EC stations that issue Gold Cards).

Or buy from a non-EC station in the Network area

 

[soil]

The 12 for 11 deal is effectively a loan at 11.6% APR.

You'd be better off taking a bank loan at a lower rate and buying the annual ticket.

Or it might be cheaper to buy a ticket to Ryde (£156) if you just want the Gold Card, and then using 5-week seasons.

Monthly payment options are very rarely a good deal.

 

[jon0844]

I'd have hoped that one enterprising TOC would have found a way to issue a Gold Card (thus giving people the benefits of one) and still take payments monthly.

Obviously it would mean issuing a Gold Card with less than 12 months validity, and issuing new ones every month, or perhaps every quarter, for those that cancel part way through. The added benefit would be if someone lost their ticket, they could at worst (if they've already had one replacement) just wait for the new ticket to arrive and not be out of pocket for the rest of the year.

I'm sure most people would in fact seek to start a rolling debit that means they wouldn't just buy a year's worth, but actually keep it going for as long as they travelled. It would even be easier to change your season ticket, hopefully with an online system that would calculate changeovers quicker.

To cover any admin costs, you could load the payments up so people would pay more for the first month or two, or in fact pay more every month - but not be charged for the last two months (the two free months people get with a Gold Card).

Not every employer offers a loan for a season ticket, and not everyone can get a loan easily or cheaply.

Long term though; smartcards. Solves a lot of the problems straight away. Stop paying - card is killed straight away!

I also think that the Government should consider a way for people to claim tax relief in some way on a season ticket too.

 

[sarahj]

I always thought the thinking behind a gold card was the passenger has paid up front, so they get these offers as a sort of thank you.

 

[jon0844]

People would be paying up front, for each replacement ticket that comes, but I think that if someone is ultimately going to have a ticket for a whole year (or more) then it's acceptable to give them the Gold Card benefits. And if they continue beyond a year, then you can start to introduce loyalty rewards like free travel for friends/family, discounts on other TOCs, weekend rovers for the TOC's network, first class upgrades or whatever.

As I understand it, the TOC doesn't actually get the lump sum to 'stick in a high interest account' anyway.

I would expect it to be a bit more expensive than paying in one lump, to reflect the admin (but would expect most of it to be automated).

I am of course making the assumption that such a system would be set up (and the software to manage it), and given smartcards will almost certainly replace season tickets early on in any roll out, it's now too late to be worthwhile.

 

[redbutton]

Well many business offer a discount for signing a year contract even if the customer is billed monthly. It's an interesting idea, at least.

For example, I just changed my energy tariff to get a cheaper fixed rate for a year, but they'll charge me £30 if I change it before then.

I think the same type of scheme could work on the railways, since they already have a massive debt-collection operation (Penalty Fares/Prosecutions/etc) in force anyway, don't they?

 

[jon0844]

Some TOCs have almost done it anyway with the buy 11 monthly tickets, get 12.

The only difference is that you could get the tickets on Gold Card stock by stating you wanted to sign up for a year.

Because of the way the payments would be taken for this option, a TOC wouldn't ever be out of pocket if you stopped paying. If the payments were split into, say, 9 or 10 monthly payments, they'd always be ahead.

 

[paddington]

Well many business offer a discount for signing a year contract even if the customer is billed monthly. It's an interesting idea, at least.

For example, I just changed my energy tariff to get a cheaper fixed rate for a year, but they'll charge me £30 if I change it before then.

I think the same type of scheme could work on the railways, since they already have a massive debt-collection operation (Penalty Fares/Prosecutions/etc) in force anyway, don't they?

Well, compare it to Talktalk who lets you pay for 1 year of line rental upfront for £126, whereas if you pay monthly it will be £15.40

And if you moved house or job, you would still be obliged to pay for the remaining months. It would be sensible to permit the value to be used as credit towards a more expensive season, if your commute lengthened, but not if it shortened.

With smartcards TOCs will be able to introduce more complicated loyalty programmes like airlines...

 

[wibble]

Well many business offer a discount for signing a year contract even if the customer is billed monthly. It's an interesting idea, at least.

For example, I just changed my energy tariff to get a cheaper fixed rate for a year, but they'll charge me £30 if I change it before then.

I think the same type of scheme could work on the railways, since they already have a massive debt-collection operation (Penalty Fares/Prosecutions/etc) in force anyway, don't they?

I don't think many TOCs will be willing to take this on, largely due to cost of operating a DD scheme. The income they make from penalty fares etc. will be almost insignificant compared to their ticket income.

Most season ticket holders don't actually hold annual season tickets - the vast majority will be weekly or monthly ticket holders so a DD scheme for Gold Cards would be of little benefit.

 

[jon0844]

When I travelled on a peak train and there was a ticket check, I saw loads of gold cards being presented.

I'm sure those buying shorter duration seasons are only doing so because they can't afford an annual ticket.

This would solve that, but as I said, smartcards are on their way and so it would be quite pointless to set up any new scheme which would then be replaced in a year or two.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Smartcard technology will allow this to happen, and it already does with the buses. On Stagecoach Smart a Megarider is usually cheaper, working out as the annual price divided by 12. Go-Ahead do a similar scheme on the bus version of The Key. If your card payment doesn't go through, for whatever reason, your ticket stops working. There's no reason why the same thing can't work for train tickets.

I'm not sure you would ever get a gold card through these sorts of schemes. DD schemes cost more to operate than paying up front, in advance, and the gold card is a reward to people who pay up front and in advance. DD schemes would be beneficial to TOCs to prevent the admin costs of buying a new ticket every month, but they're still more expensive to run than buying an annual ticket.

 

[jon0844]

The current system is that when you pay for a whole year, you get the added benefits of a Gold Card. As I've heard before, that doesn't mean the TOC actually gets all of that money straight away.

It could be changed, so that people paying in instalments get given the same benefits - if the industry wanted to. And charging a bit more for paying on a month-by-month basis (or 10 equal payments including an admin fee of whatever) would mean the TOC would be no worse off, just as insurance companies do (and I suspect make a bit more money on top, so would actually prefer everyone to do!).

This wouldn't stop people continuing to buy weekly or monthly seasons, or seasons for a specific number of days (something a lot of people probably don't even know they can do).

One thing I'd like to see with smartcards is that you'd have daily price capping as you do in London, for example, but the card would also be able to offer weekly or monthly price caps, so the more you used the card, the more you'd save overall. You might not then need any sort of railcard or 'Gold card' to get additional benefits - just travel more, with discounts automatically applied.