Good start to the day for Virgin Trains with good performance on fast AM peak services

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by peter166, 9 Aug 2018.

  1. peter166

    peter166 Member

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    Under 2 hours to Euston from Manchester, Liverpool & Wigan today. Is this a record ?

    1R18 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70743/2018/08/09/advanced
    1R19 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70744/2018/08/09/advanced
    1R20 http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C70745/2018/08/09/advanced
     
    Last edited: 12 Aug 2018
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  3. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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  4. peter166

    peter166 Member

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    Just refering to the below 2 hour run from Wigan NW, not the whole journey from Glasgow.
     
  5. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Established Member

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    Those are pretty quick. Not sure what the records are in terms of public passengers services (and not organised speed runs).
     
  6. voyagerdude220

    voyagerdude220 Established Member

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    I'm not sure either. I seem to remember in the days of the 16:30 Euston to Glasgow running none stop to Preston, it sometimes managed to reach Preston for about 18:26/18:27 the odd time.

    A little off topic, but I think it's a shame Virgin don't run any services none stop anymore between Preston and London Euston. Surely it would be a good idea, to re time a couple of trains between Preston and London (and vice versa) none stop, when there's a Blackpool to Euston running shortly before/after the fast Scotland to London.

    i.e. Scotland to Euston as now as far as Preston, then none stop to Euston.
    Blackpool to Euston there to pick up Wigan/Warrington passengers.

    Admittedly southbound the timings wouldn't be great, because of the Blackpool to Euston being quite a lot slower than the equivalent Scotland to Euston, however, northbound, I think it would:

    10:30 Euston to Glasgow Central arrive Preston 12:38- if ran none stop- possibly arrive 12:30.
    10:36 Euston to Blackpool North- arrive Preston 12:57- only currently 13 minutes slower
     
  7. jfisher21

    jfisher21 Member

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    The line was a bit clearer than usual as the 0741 from international was cancelled ... probably helped. As a regular on the London - Coventry run, if there are no speed checks and a quick stop, can arrive 4-5 mins early.
     
  8. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    From my experience on the old 1630, it was rarely more than half full.
     
  9. driver_m

    driver_m Established Member

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    No. All have been done quicker than that. As long as 1R18 gets a clear run you could knock another 3 or 4 minutes off each .
     
  10. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Certainly suggests that there were no TSRs and whatever is infront of 1R18 at Stoke wasnt there.
     
  11. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I have added text descriptions to comply with our forum rules regarding external content, principally for two reasons, firstly the links will expire soon, and secondly because it is difficult for some users to navigate to external sites and back again (especially blind people who have text read out using screen reader software).

    Anyway they are quite impressive timings.
     
  12. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    Ah, ok missed that.
     
  13. theironroad

    theironroad Established Member

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    When I saw this thread (before your post) I tried looking up that 1630 on rtt as I remember using it a few times a number of years back as iirc it was possible to do Euston to Glasgow in 4 hours with the single stop at Preston. Explains why I couldn't find it. I can only assume there was insufficient demand to pull it.
     
  14. gordonthemoron

    gordonthemoron Established Member

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    Virgin services which pick up at MKC are usually early into Euston if they depart MKC on time
     
  15. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    1R20 covering the distance between Crewe and Euston in 87.5 minutes isn't bad, but 86 minutes is common for the Glasgow fasts, 84 minutes happens occasionally, and I think I saw 83 minutes once. 82 must be the fastest possible.

    When 1R18 can cover its journey in considerably less than 2 hours, I still question why it has been retimed to depart Manchester at 0658.
     
  16. jfollows

    jfollows Member

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    I think it's because timetables are constructed on top of rules which increasingly do not map well to reality.
     
  17. The Planner

    The Planner Established Member

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    Nothing to do with that, it was to fit some Northern locals in around Piccadilly, Virgin have kicked off monumentally about being shoved back to 0658.
     
  18. Foxcover

    Foxcover Member

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    Looks like a very good morning! The 0700 ex Liverpool is a very fast & reliable runner - often gets to Euston a few minutes early and stands waiting for a platform.
     
  19. route101

    route101 Established Member

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    Was on the 1630 yesterday from Carlisle , around 10 minutes late . Made up some time and arrived at Glasgow 6 minutes late . I thought there was more slack between Carlisle and Glasgow . Quite often a slow run from Newton into Glasgow
     
  20. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    The Norton Bridge grade separation has had a major beneficial impact on WCML punctuality, even though there are no more trains bar the Blackpools.
    A good way of checking WCML performance is to stand at Crewe and time the non-stop Glasgows each hour (xx59 Down, xx38 Up).
    Often on time on the Down, but much less likely on the Up.
     
  21. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    Using the non-stop Glasgow's regularly last year, it wasn't uncommon to arrive at Bank Quay very early (14/15E wasn't surprising!)
     
  22. Up_Tilt_390

    Up_Tilt_390 On Moderation

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    It seems the OP made a mistake, since it states that 1R20 left Wigan Wallgate 0709, when it should've been Wigan North Western. This is what was written on the diagram of RTT. Either way, the timings of the first two trains are impressive, but I'm not entirely surprised. But in the case of 1R18, was that the fastest Liverpool-London service on record? Sub-two hours I don't think has ever been documented.
     
  23. peter166

    peter166 Member

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  24. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    14 minutes early Down direction? Sorry, don't believe that at all for the standard hour timing.

    Did one back in January - arrived 1 early on the 1730 by averaging 107mph for the run. Save for a brief run on yellows at (I think) Colwich, could barely have been any more flat out.
     
  25. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    It was during September/October last year, always ended up holding at Bank Quay for several minutes (14 twice) - I was surprised too, but it has happened.
     
  26. driver_m

    driver_m Established Member

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    You'd need to cover about 65-70 miles in half an hour to get to Warrington in 90m. First hours journey usually gets you around Tamworth which is at the 110 milepost. (Dont know the exact mileage to Bank Quay as it changes to KM at Weaver.) So I'd hazard a guess that 15 early is nigh on impossible.
     
  27. causton

    causton Established Member

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    RecentTrainTimes shows a maximum of 8-9 minutes early looking at the non-stop WBQ trains (only shows data after May though). Unless some extra allowances were added for engineering works or something?
     
  28. All Line Rover

    All Line Rover Established Member

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    Was it a Sunday? There's about 6 minutes' timetable padding on Sundays (trains still run at 125mph). Added to the early arrivals of between 4 and 9 minutes on clear runs (4 to 5 minutes is very frequent, 9 is rare but occasional), this could occasionally make 15 minutes.
     
  29. Agent_Squash

    Agent_Squash Member

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    Both trips were on a Sunday - I've not had better than 7E on a weekday.
     
  30. cambsy

    cambsy On Moderation

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    I have done it in 98 minutes London - Warrington and similar into London, left Warrington few mins late, arrived London early.

    Been through Crewe in 84 mins from London and again similar into London.

    I have averaged 113-114mph Between Stafford and Watford non-stop when done in just about an hour on the 18.47 Liverpool-Euston; this section I think has highest booked average speed on the WCML.

    Stafford-Watford Jct 63 mins, possible in just about an hour if you get a good run.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 18 Aug 2018 at 16:44
  31. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    At one point that was the fastest booked start-stop on the network. Jostles with the evening York-Stevenage non-stop.
     

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