Goring Gap/AONBs and Electrification of the GWML

[AM9]

... Nevertheless, NR appear to be taking the problem seriously and are working with different designers / consultants to produce a series of possible solutions

Looks like their strategy worked then.

 

[Who Cares]

Looks like their strategy worked then.

Of course you may be right....NR do have form in bull****t*ng about this Project....

 

[AM9]

Of course you may be right....NR do have form in bull****t*ng about this Project....

Given the amount of flack that they've received on the overspend and overrun on the GWML electrification, the Government is likely to agree with that as a politically effective way ahead.

 

[deltic08]

As you describe....

Both the North Wessex AONB and the Chilterns AONB are discussing with NR the track in the Goring Gap between roughly Pangbourne and Moulsford where the track cuts through both AsONB, and which is all four track.

The North Wessex AONB are also discussing ( I believe, but could be behind the times ) parts of the line west of Didcot where the two tracks cut in and out the AONB. This section could be easier to resolve - personally, I think that the OLE already installed on the Moulsford Bridge ( which is two, two tracks if you know what I mean ) is a more than adequate compromise.

Smiffy and Gralistair are probably correct - painting, together with appropriate tree planting and screening where possible is an obvious solution. However, there are large areas where screening is not going to work ( particularly looking down into the valley in the Goring Gap from both sides of the river, and along the South Stoke Embankment ) and we've already discussed previously the problems and limitations of retrospectively painting / coating the existing steelwork.

Nevertheless, NR appear to be taking the problem seriously and are working with different designers / consultants to produce a series of possible solutions

That is very encouraging. So when I ask NR to include installation of the former junction to Ripon concurrently with resignalling and upgrade of the Harrogate-York line in 2019 costing £2.5m, they will say yes!!!!!!

 

[Tio Terry]

"Smiffy and Gralistair are probably correct - painting, ....."

I can remember trying painting GSM-R radio system masts years ago, it was not very successful. Oxshot springs to mind, there were complaints about the bright, shiny, galvanised mast so we painted it green. Within about 4 years it started to flake off but by then was no longer shiny and a rather dull grey and nobody noticed.

Of course, that's years ago and I'm sure somebody who knows more about modern coating systems may well be able to identify suitable coatings that wont flake off after a few years.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Of course, that's years ago and I'm sure somebody who knows more about modern coating systems may well be able to identify suitable coatings that wont flake off after a few years.

As pointed out elsewhere, galv is a notoriously difficult substrate to coat effectively.

One thing I like about portals as on the GWML -they are quite a bit smaller in height - the uprights that is.

 

[hwl]

As pointed out elsewhere, galv is a notoriously difficult substrate to coat effectively.

A quick brush over with low concentration phosphoric acid to dull the bright galv. finish very quickly?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A quick brush over with low concentration phosphoric acid to dull the bright galv. finish very quickly?

Correctomundo - a true etch primer - I think in the 1960s there was mordant wash -same principle. I will be a smart ass later and dig out a formulation even!

Part A
Zinc Tetroxy Chromate 08.00 %
Poly(vinyl butyral) 07.30 %
Isopropanol 48.70 %
Butanol 16.00 %
80.00 %
Part B
Phosphoric Acid 85% 03.80 % Mix Ratio A:B 4:1
Water 03.00 %
Isopropanol 13.20 %
20.00 %

Of course the VOC would be very high but --

 

[Tio Terry]

Correctomundo - a true etch primer - I think in the 1960s there was mordant wash -same principle. I will be a smart ass later and dig out a formulation even!

Part A
Zinc Tetroxy Chromate 08.00 %
Poly(vinyl butyral) 07.30 %
Isopropanol 48.70 %
Butanol 16.00 %
80.00 %
Part B
Phosphoric Acid 85% 03.80 % Mix Ratio A:B 4:1
Water 03.00 %
Isopropanol 13.20 %
20.00 %

Of course the VOC would be very high but --

Is there a COSHH issue with any of this? What about pollution of an AoONB?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Is there a COSHH issue with any of this? What about pollution of an AoONB?

VOC way high and of course there are substances hazardous to health so Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health not good - and yes it would pollute an AoONB - Of course you could not electrify and allow all those diesel particulates etc pollute the area too.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Oh Dear
Not only is the new stuff costing enormous sums of money - now they want to pull some down and replace it. Add another billion pounds to this project.

Exactly -surely there is no way this can go ahead - certainly not until late CP6 if at all. I mean surely finishing off to oxford and then Filton triangle and BTM with actual wires has to be way way higher priority than pulling down new stuff and putting up more new stuff. Please tell me this I not so otherwise the world really is going crazy.

 

[InTheEastMids]

VOC way high and of course there are substances hazardous to health so Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health not good - and yes it would pollute an AoONB - Of course you could not electrify and allow all those diesel particulates etc pollute the area too - but now I am just being silly and all this really should be in the Goring Gap thread - I think I am up to a quadruple strike with HowardGWR now

Whilst my chemistry degree was now quite a while ago, I wouldn't want to have people sloshing this stuff onto the metalwork without a really good reason.

In addition to the volatile organic components, there's what looks like pretty concentrated phosphoric acid (corrosive). Chromate is carcinogenic and any discharge into the environment could be really bad news.

Not saying it shouldn't be done, but if it requires a lot of precautions in the method statement, it's going to be an expensive pain in the backside to do.

The obvious thing NR should be doing in these contentious areas is finding somebody to propose a large wind farm, or get National Grid to suggest a bit of 400 kV transmission line - then nobody will have the time to also take on the railway

 

[Who Cares]

VOC way high and of course there are substances hazardous to health so Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health not good - and yes it would pollute an AoONB - Of course you could not electrify and allow all those diesel particulates etc pollute the area too.

Come on...You're better than that.

Unless, of course, you're genuinely suggesting that all freight traffic ( and there's already quite a bit of it and increasing ) should be banned between Didcot and Tileurst, which I don't think you are....

 

[Tio Terry]

VOC way high and of course there are substances hazardous to health so Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health not good - and yes it would pollute an AoONB - Of course you could not electrify and allow all those diesel particulates etc pollute the area too.

Is it not a matter of analysing the risk and then managing it to bring it to ALARP?

 

[hwl]

Correctomundo - a true etch primer - I think in the 1960s there was mordant wash -same principle. I will be a smart ass later and dig out a formulation even!

Part A
Zinc Tetroxy Chromate 08.00 %
Poly(vinyl butyral) 07.30 %
Isopropanol 48.70 %
Butanol 16.00 %
80.00 %
Part B
Phosphoric Acid 85% 03.80 % Mix Ratio A:B 4:1
Water 03.00 %
Isopropanol 13.20 %
20.00 %

Of course the VOC would be very high but --

I had in mind nearer 8.5% rather than 85% Phosphoric and none of the rest of stuff apart from a wetting agent to make it brush on more easily (or garden type sprayer).
At 8.5% gloves and goggles should surfice

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Come on...You're better than that.

Unless, of course, you're genuinely suggesting that all freight traffic ( and there's already quite a bit of it and increasing ) should be banned between Didcot and Tileurst, which I don't think you are....

Of course I am not. I am a 25kV AC OHLE fan out and out for many many reasons. I truly believe the future is that - including the Goring Gap, the Peak District National Park etc etc.

 

[Trog]

My guess for Goring is that Network Rail will faff about and drag its feet until the new masts have gone a dull grey and started to blend in better. Then once the fuss has died down and the locals are getting used to them. Paint all the masts bright green at vast expense and reignite the whole thing.

 

[AM9]

My guess for Goring is that Network Rail will faff about and drag its feet until the new masts have gone a dull grey and started to blend in better. Then once the fuss has died down and the locals are getting used to them. ...

Which is exactly what I was implying was happening in my posts Nos. #362 & #364. NR's real job is to get a functional 25kV electrified railway operational asap and within whatever the eventual budget is. Who could accept wasting hard won UK public money on prettying up a fully operational railway, - especially those whose local services continue to fail to function properly altogether.