Governance of Rail Replacement Bus Services

[EbbwJunction1]

Does anyone know who is responsible for the "proper" running of these, please?

The reason that I ask is that I saw or experienced three separate instances yesterday where there didn't seem to be any overall control, which caused or had the potential to cause, some problems.

The first was when a driver seemingly (according to comments that I heard from railway staff at the time) refused to wait for passengers who were crossing from the front of the station to the rear where the buses were and just drove off. The bus looked as if it had plenty of room, and the passengers were in place within a few minutes, but he wouldn't wait.

The second was that my outbound service left a couple of minutes early. This also seemed to be the decision of the driver, although I'm not sure of that.

The third, and the one that really affected me, was my service home. We got off the train and were directed to a coach on the forecourt. Everybody got on, the driver and his sidekick were faffing around which meant that we were now late. At this stage, the driver's assistant told us that we weren't going to leave for at least another 30 minutes, because the driver had to have his break.

Now, I'm not disagreeing that this is necessary, but I wasn't happy at all that we were allowed to get on the bus without being told that we'd be around 50 minutes late departing. A marshal then arrived (from somewhere else, as he wasn't by the bus when we got on), and arranged a different bus which took us where we wanted to go.

However, he stated that he didn't know that the bus driver needed his break, which shows to me that he wasn't doing his job properly, because if he had been, surely he would have known? It also indicates to me that there didn't seem to be anyone really in charge, hence my original question.
In closing, I have to say that I have seen instances where the system has worked well, but I do have to say that they're not very frequent.

Any comments will be appreciated, please - thank you. [I've omitted the locations to protect the innocent / guilty parties]

 

[Taunton]

Very simply it's the train operating company. That's who you have paid your money to and thus that's where your contract for transport is. How they manage their various suppliers (train builder, their fuel supplier, the provider of replacement buses even if further subcontracted by Network Rail, etc) is fully up to them.

As with anything else in life, you can complain but the provision of poor service is not often something you have a statutory right about.

 

[PR1Berske]

I've had good and bad experiences. Without naming names I can't forget the mass of people in a dangerous push and shove crowd being misdirected to whichever coach was available. Those at "the front" found themselves in the cold when a coach turned up further away and we all had to surge back and forth without any guidance from the hiviz staff.

I do get that bad service is one of those things, and you can't legislate against bad service. But you can certainly expect organisation even if its RRB.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've had good and bad experiences. Without naming names I can't forget the mass of people in a dangerous push and shove crowd being misdirected to whichever coach was available. Those at "the front" found themselves in the cold when a coach turned up further away and we all had to surge back and forth without any guidance from the hiviz staff.

I will name a TOC that did that - Virgin Trains West Coast at Preston. Preston's station staff have repeatedly found themselves incapable of managing emergency bus replacement and are in dire need of training. I was providing more useful information to passengers than they were. It was only by my actions on one evening directing them to the TPE that about 20 people got to Lancaster; without that they may not have got there at all.

The answer is the TOC by the way - they can contract who they like, but it comes back to them in the end.

 

[farci]

I second Bletchleyite. Preston is shocking and considering it’s a major interchange the buck stops with the TOC management. I wrote some time back about the ‘Preston Shuffle’ when hordes of anxious passengers swoop from platform to platform via the underpass in response to incorrect info about replacement train and bus departures. It’s not the staff. It’s not that these problems are exceptional It’s TOCs completely failing to fulfil a contract. So who do we lobby?

 

[Wirewiper]

In general I have found GWR rail replacement services to be well-run.

There will now be six consecutive posts with examples of when this was not so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I second Bletchleyite. Preston is shocking and considering it’s a major interchange the buck stops with the TOC management. I wrote some time back about the ‘Preston Shuffle’ when hordes of anxious passengers swoop from platform to platform via the underpass in response to incorrect info about replacement train and bus departures. It’s not the staff. It’s not that these problems are exceptional It’s TOCs completely failing to fulfil a contract. So who do we lobby?

I took great pleasure in whacking them with a load of Delay Repay for it, which I might not have claimed otherwise - I don't always claim it if the TOC is not to blame (it was severe weather in the main case I highlight). But sadly there's no way to associate that claim (for about £300 worth) to that point being made.

 

[DelW]

A few weeks ago I was on a coach replacement for a GWR service. Boarding was supervised by a member of TOC staff (might have been GWR or SWR, both had RRBs running). After we'd boarded the coach, said person got on and gave the coach driver grief about supposed misdeeds by his company on an earlier occasion. The poor driver kept trying to say that he hadn't been involved and hadn't worked for them then, but it did him no good. The TOC marshal stood at the front and addressed the passengers along the lines of "good luck, I've no idea if this coach and driver will get you to the right place or not" and got off!
In the event, coach and driver were fine, delivered us to the right location with no problems and in plenty of time for our onward train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To counter that one, I have encountered a coach driver in the past saying something like "they couldn't run a bath" describing a certain TOC with which I am quite familiar of which that observation seems entirely correct.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Noting that Preston had seen many months of pre-planned replacement bus activity during electrification blockades towards Blackpool and Bolton it might have been assumed that staff were familiar with the general challenges of queue marshalling and vehicle despatch. Accepting that emergency work might be a bit more of a challenge whilst ‘extra’ staff are resourced are there any other reasons why Preston doesn’t always work so well?

 

[harz99]

Noting that Preston had seen many months of pre-planned replacement bus activity during electrification blockades towards Blackpool and Bolton it might have been assumed that staff were familiar with the general challenges of queue marshalling and vehicle despatch. Accepting that emergency work might be a bit more of a challenge whilst ‘extra’ staff are resourced are there any other reasons why Preston doesn’t always work so well?

Probably because Preston staff really only seem to care about people they see as their (VTWC or successor) passengers, the same attitudes have personally been seen and experienced to a greater or lesser extent at many major ECML/WCML Stations. I suspect those attitudes may stem from the fact that some TOCs self dispatch from platforms, therefore not paying the station operator to assist this process, which then wrongly becomes the same attitude to assistance in general.

 

[MotCO]

My experience of emergency RRB goes back a number of years, but my example probably still holds. At Orpington Station, there are two entrances, both of which RRBs can use. My proposal would be that buses for one RRB route (e.g. all stations) should depart from one side, and the fast to Sevenoaks, Tonbridge etc should start from the other side. In that way, passengers are split up into the appropriate groups, and passengers 'should' catch the right bus.

However, this all depends on it being organised and set up correctly. Are there pre-rehearsed plans for such situations? Are there pre-programmed departure boards to show this information, or indeed pre-printed notices which can be put up in ticket ofices or information boards?

Where I work, we have contingency plans, and these ae periodically tested - is the same not true for the railways?

 

[30907]

My experience of emergency RRB goes back a number of years, but my example probably still holds. At Orpington Station, there are two entrances, both of which RRBs can use. My proposal would be that buses for one RRB route (e.g. all stations) should depart from one side, and the fast to Sevenoaks, Tonbridge etc should start from the other side. In that way, passengers are split up into the appropriate groups, and passengers 'should' catch the right bus.

However, this all depends on it being organised and set up correctly. Are there pre-rehearsed plans for such situations? Are there pre-programmed departure boards to show this information, or indeed pre-printed notices which can be put up in ticket ofices or information boards?

Where I work, we have contingency plans, and these ae periodically tested - is the same not true for the railways?

1. In the case of Orpington, using the down side with 4 platforms all having level access would seem to be preferable anyway; most stations don't have the option.

2. Many (most?) stations have posters showing local information including the stopping point for RRBs.

3. Most RRB arrangements are "rehearsed" regularly by the simple process of being used and major issues being reported back (whether they are acted on I can't say). It's a bit difficult to do a dummy run involving large numbers of people!

 

[Taunton]

It’s not the staff. It’s not that these problems are exceptional It’s TOCs completely failing to fulfil a contract. So who do we lobby?

It's the same answer, it's who has taken your money/you have a contract with. Now it does become complex where you bought the ticket from A, but had been travelling on B, changing to one run by C at a station managed by D. But I'm sure it will be defined somewhere.

 

[Randomer]

My most recent RRB journey was with TfW. First journey of the day from Llandudno on a Sunday with bus replacement to Rhyl.

Only a single coach provided which by the time it reached Llandudno only had four seats left. I was lucky enough to get one (feeling a bit guilty but I was starting a 4 hour journey even with no missed connections.)

At all the intermediate stations people could not board the service. No coordinators were present and the driver could only tell people to wait an hour. He had no way of contacting the coordinator (or at least not directly he did ring his company manager). In what way did anyone think this would be an acceptable service?

Should there be information displayed for contact details of a TOC coordinator for planned RRB for passengers where no TOC staff are present at a station?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Interesting suggestion. We hear about ‘tweet the conductor’ on Greater Anglia or ‘tweet the manager’ sessions. Could there be a ‘tweet the RRB co-ordinator’ facility perhaps?

 

[Robertj21a]

The staff that TOCs supply as Rail replacement bus co-ordinators seem to be, invariably, from the pile headed 'Total lack of common sense'. Very few TOCs handle rail replacements properly and professionally though, in the London area, any TOC using Ensignbus as the main contractor seems to have few complaints.

 

[Mag_seven]

In general I have found GWR rail replacement services to be well-run.

So do I in particular at Swindon / Reading with station staff on hand actually outside the station directing people to their correct bus with the buses clearly displaying their calling points.

Elsewhere in non GWR land I've encountered station staff who seem to think its beneath themselves to be outside the station directing people to their correct RRB.

 

[Glenn1969]

Here due to the antique nature of the station bridge RRBs can't even use the station and have to run from Horton Street instead

 

[richw]

In general I have found GWR rail replacement services to be well-run.

There will now be six consecutive posts with examples of when this was not so.

GWR always seem to have supervisors from First Travel Solutions (First group events travel people, who then sub contracts the coach operators) who seem well organised and control coaches and passengers well at major stations.

 

[tsr]

GWR always seem to have supervisors from First Travel Solutions (First group events travel people, who then sub contracts the coach operators) who seem well organised and control coaches and passengers well at major stations.

My experience of FTS bus coordination is anything but good. I often (when discussing these things) tell the tale of how they gridlocked Gatwick Airport South Terminal and almost caused half the airport to shut down with overcrowding issues when they were running buses for FCC. On the other hand, they do seem to have much better luck in resourcing actual buses compared to some competitors.

 

[Master29]

In general I have found GWR rail replacement services to be well-run.

There will now be six consecutive posts with examples of when this was not so.

Not quite. This is one area in which they seem to be on the ball.

 

[weastebusdepot]

Should there be information displayed for contact details of a TOC coordinator for planned RRB for passengers where no TOC staff are present at a station?

Absolutely not as this would be a major breech of data protection laws on employee's personal data. All customers should be directed to the standard contact methods for the TOC customer service department and these handled through the usual channels.

 

[Randomer]

How would a generic contact number (which could be redirected internally by the TOC) be a breach of any data protection law? Also a work issued method of communication is not personal data (e.g. an issued mobile.)

The idea being that stations have a poster giving details of the planned disruption, the replacement services and a number to ring in case it goes wrong with a person involved having direct knowledge of the operation. Currently all to often the number given is for national rail enquiries who have no idea of the arrangements.

This could indeed be a member of the TOC customer service staff if they actually had any method of contacting RRB staff on the ground. All to often currently contacting a TOC by current methods leads to no answer, a generic one or an incorrect one based on what should be happening rather than what is.

Personally I've had better luck with RRB information from some TOC during unplanned disruption when control has been contacting and making bus arrangements directly without coordinators.

 

[weastebusdepot]

How would a generic contact number (which could be redirected internally by the TOC) be a breach of any data protection law? Also a work issued method of communication is not personal data (e.g. an issued mobile.)

Rail Replacement Coordinators are employed on casual zero hours contracts and use their own personal mobiles, the numbers to which shouldn't be held by anyone other than their line manager, colleagues and their control room staff. In the event of any issues the TOC control (possibly as a result of a customer services logged report) would speak to their rail replacement contractor's control who would then phone the coordinator.

 

[Horizon22]

As others have mentioned its the TOC.

However each TOC seems to vary wildly in their practices. Some outsource this to various controllers (especially if they have a UK bus operation attached to their parent and its geographically suitable), others use local bus companies and their staff, others rely more heavily on station staff to organise on the ground (perhaps with additional staff, perhaps not) and often its a mash of all of them. Even within a TOC some local teams handle it better than others.

I have found in London bus replacement world, issues to be relatively minor (drivers taking wrong/slower routes or services not connecting due to London traffic), but I think a big impression would be to those on the ground and how much importance management have placed on the the specific route affected and how "high profile" the blockade is.

 

[richw]

Rail Replacement Coordinators are employed on casual zero hours contracts and use their own personal mobiles, the numbers to which shouldn't be held by anyone other than their line manager, colleagues and their control room staff. In the event of any issues the TOC control (possibly as a result of a customer services logged report) would speak to their rail replacement contractor's control who would then phone the coordinator.

Having say a landline number advertised which is set to divert from the office to a mobile number would overcome this issue
The bigger thing is not wanting a controller being overrun with pointless and unnecessary phone calls from members of the public. Go through the standard customer service contact number

 

[Starmill]

One of my notable experiences with buses can be found at the following link:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/rail-replacement-bus-coordinaton-incentives.181486/

This post by G for Gnome was quite informative:

Having done the bus coordination job in the past, this is the very worst position you can find yourself in. 1 hour at a station, potentially unstaffed and in the middle of nowhere, with a bus load of people who have just missed the connecting train and it’s “your fault”. Bear in mind you will be employed by a contractor so will not be a TOC employee so will Have absolutely no authority over traincrew or to delay the service.

It is up to the TOC Control to decide whether to delay the train, but there may be a reluctance if this means the train losing a path later on in the journey, and the risk of people missing their connections later on (these would be people on the train already at the interchange station having started their journey there, or passengers intending to join the train at a later station).

The next problem is knowing what to tell the TOC Control, is the bus 2 minutes away or 30 minutes away? As a rule (there are some exceptions) Rail replacement buses are not satellite tracked in a way that bus coordinators have easy access to. Finding out where the driver is means a call to the contractors control room, who then need to call the bus operator, who then need to call the driver, who may or may not be able to answer, and then the message needs to be passed back through the chain. It all takes time, considering there is usually a 10 minute connection time, if the bus isn’t showing up at the scheduled arrival time, it can take more than 10 minutes to determine where it is.

The huge problem, however, is that the TOCs generally set the running time for rail replacement buses. The times are standard and make no account for time of day, day of the week etc etc. I can think of at least 3 examples across different TOCs and different rail replacement contractor where the contractor has challenged the running time as been inadequate, the TOC has ignored the warning, and the point has been proven during the operation on the day - none of which helps the passenger stuck on a station for an hour after getting there just in time to see the tail lights of the “connecting train” pull out of the station.

Much of the same logic applies to TOCs being advised when the capacity they specify for rail replacement bus operations is likely to be inadequate but warnings have fallen on deaf ears.

Provision of planned rail
replacement buses is an area of the industry can improve, but one where the challenges faced are often (not always) woefully misunderstood.

​

To put it another way, when traveling on planned rail replacement buses which connect with or from rail services, delays are quite likely.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Reminds me of the time someone gave me a lift to get a RRB at Aldermaston. As we neared the station, we passed a bus displaying “Rail Replacement”, and thought it must be going the other way as we still had ten minutes. After waiting 25 minutes (and looking at timetable to see if it could have been another bus) we figured it had been that one, it had just left at least 8 minutes early. This was at half ten at night, with over an hour until the next (and last) one.

 

[Dave W]

I did the buses on a couple of occasions during the Brighton Main Line works in 2018... the solution at Three Bridges was good: queuing in the car park with whatever buses they could find doing the last stretch down the A23. This was fine on the way down to the seaside, arriving a few minutes early despite the traffic.

On the way back I ended up on a bog standard London(!) double decker, which unsurprisingly had rather a lot of trouble getting up the banks. Cue consternation when the last vaguely fast Victoria train sailed out of the platform just as our (full) bus pulled in, requiring a trundle on a stopper.