Government set to go ahead with Labour Thameslink and NW plans

[markem41]

As a passenger using the soon-to-be-forgotten Manchester-Liverpool (ex-CLC) route, will I see any improvements to my journey as a result of these plans or am I condemned to overcrowded peak-time travel for eternity?

 

[tbtc]

As a passenger using the soon-to-be-forgotten Manchester-Liverpool (ex-CLC) route, will I see any improvements to my journey as a result of these plans or am I condemned to overcrowded peak-time travel for eternity?

ex-CLC?

 

[Lampshade]

The southern route via Warrington Central.

 

[markem41]

The southern route via Warrington Central.

Yes, sorry, as confirmed by 91107, I was referring to the Manchester Oxford Road to Liverpool Lime Street route via Warrington Central that is currently used for the Northern Rail stopping services, First TransPennine Express and East Midlands Trains express services.

I was wondering if the electrification plans would move any services to the Liverpool-Manchester Chat Moss route or enable additional carriages to be provided. Or should I just be happy with the new shelter that has been provided at my local station

 

[Lampshade]

I wondered about that, but unless they're going to electrify South TPE (Hope Valley and via Barnetby), Sheffield - Grantham via Nottingham and Ely - Norwich then there wouldn't be much point. By electrifying the northern route via Chat Moss it enables local diesel services on that line to go 100% electric.

 

[tbtc]

The southern route via Warrington Central.

Got ya, cheers

I wouldn't imagine any changes on the Warrington route, as the routes to the east will still be un-wired. The Manchester Airport - Liverpool service was diverted away a few years ago, so there's only the half hourly stoppers, the Scarborough and the Norwich left.

I reckon the self-contained half hourly Pacer service through Warrington is sufficient justification to wire this route too (EMUs would have better acceleration and be able to get out of the paths of the "fast" trains better too), especially as both "ends" are already done - certainly better cost/benefit ratio than Newbury - Reading!
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I wondered about that, but unless they're going to electrify South TPE (Hope Valley and via Barnetby), Sheffield - Grantham via Nottingham and Ely - Norwich then there wouldn't be much point. By electrifying the northern route via Chat Moss it enables local diesel services on that line to go 100% electric.

Its a little like the Leeds - Manchester situation - the northern version is more "self contained" and therefore better to electrify than the southern "long distance" route - hence my feeling that the Bradford - Halifax route may be wired before the Huddersfield one is

 

[Aictos]

Its a little like the Leeds - Manchester situation - the northern version is more "self contained" and therefore better to electrify than the southern "long distance" route - hence my feeling that the Bradford - Halifax route may be wired before the Huddersfield one is

Wouldn't that be better to be Leeds to Manchester Victoria via Bradford Interchange and Todmorden then it makes it more economical to wired up the Halifax to Preston via Blackburn and York to Leeds routes?

It means that the current Leeds to Manchester Victoria services could go over to EMUs not forgetting of course the York to Blackpool North which really ought to be with FTPE and not Northern.

 

[northwichcat]

As a passenger using the soon-to-be-forgotten Manchester-Liverpool (ex-CLC) route, will I see any improvements to my journey as a result of these plans or am I condemned to overcrowded peak-time travel for eternity?

I don't this this line will be forgotten about. The people of Warrington will certainly make their voices heard if it is proposed they lose all long distance services from Central station and I don't think Merseytravel and Liverpool Airport will be happy if South Parkway starts losing passengers due to diverting trains via Chat Moss.

Certainly sending long distance services via Chat Moss will reduce overcrowding on the long distance services as Newton-le-Willows is a fraction of the size of Warrington. However, as overcrowding is bad on Huddersfield-Leeds and Manchester-Sheffield as well it should be a case of longer trains anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I reckon the self-contained half hourly Pacer service through Warrington is sufficient justification to wire this route too (EMUs would have better acceleration and be able to get out of the paths of the "fast" trains better too), especially as both "ends" are already done - certainly better cost/benefit ratio than Newbury - Reading!

In addition to that if electrified diversions are not available then it'll mean an increase in the use of replacement bus services after electrification.

 

[tbtc]

The people of Warrington will certainly make their voices heard if it is proposed they lose all long distance services from Central station

Long distance services won't be lost, and there's no chance of the Scarborough/Norwich services being diverted via Chat Moss before hundreds of miles are electrified - and by that time the Warrington line will be electrified too.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I don't think therre is any chance of Warrington Central losing it's express services for a while, For that to happen they'd have to electrify Stocport-Sheffield-Nottingham-Grantham and other routes east of Sheffield. It's pointless moving a desel service under the wires for the sake of it.

 

[ST PADDY]

Hammond was responding to the inquiry into the value for money of the IEP program which offered as a possible alternative (Along with life extend 125's) the changing of locomotives. Hammond was saying despite the reports findings it was impractical so no need to worry there.

Yep, if you listened to the debate Hammond wasnt too hot on his northern geography. The diversion of Manchester-Scotland services away from Bolton is mainly to relieve the capacity constraints on the Bolton line where additional paths are wanted for faster, longer and more frequent commuter/regional services, including the single line section which hampers flows considerably. Despite this route being less compass direct it would be faster passing through less stations and with higher line speeds. Moving the service back to the Bolton line when its electrified a couple of years later has been considered but is currently not favoured.

So that would end any hope of Golborne, Kenyon junction (renamed Culcheth parkway) and Glazebury bein re-opened then, along with the subsiquant service to the city and airport.