government to change punctuality rules

[Failed Unit]

I think the best example of this is the famously quoted Wrexham Central service where the arrival is in the public timetable after the departure on a single line route operated by 1 unit.

However at stations with regular interval timetables the public timetable can vary either way. Ie the public at 1008 but the working is really 1010 to avoid conflicts at junctions but to keep the timetables standard. I am sure that most people think this is a good idea.

One problem I often find with the quest for 100% timekeeping is a stopping service is often let out ahead of a fast when the fast is slightly late. It is better for the stopper to be on time and the fast very late. It used to annoy the life out of me when the GNER service arrived at Edinburgh 5 down and was force to follow the XC all the way to York. If the had let the XC out afterwards both should have recovered by York but by following the XC the GNER got later as it lost all it's paths heading south.

 

[The Planner]

It does when you have a pile up as routes merge.

How ? the PTT is meaningless there as the WTT is used.
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One problem I often find with the quest for 100% timekeeping is a stopping service is often let out ahead of a fast when the fast is slightly late. It is better for the stopper to be on time and the fast very late. It used to annoy the life out of me when the GNER service arrived at Edinburgh 5 down and was force to follow the XC all the way to York. If the had let the XC out afterwards both should have recovered by York but by following the XC the GNER got later as it lost all it's paths heading south.

That is down to regulation policy and the fact that if the signaller makes a decision to run out of course and it goes wrong somewhere then the minutes go to them. Run it as booked and the minutes will tend to get "Y" coded for following either an on time or late service.

 

[Failed Unit]

From an interest point of view the xx30 Edinburgh - London services often wait at Doncaster for the Leeds to London service to pass ahead, this used to go into platform 4 and cross the ECML over the bridge. Now it seems to go into platform 1. When path planning is getting done is the cost in energy of stopping a 125mph train considered (an restarting it) or is it just that the Edinburgh train is ahead of it WTt anyway?

I guess I am asking which train should hit the junction first on the Wtt, the Leeds or the Edinburgh?

 

[87015]

At a quick glance the Leeds is booked into Doncaster at xx15, the up Scotch is booked through at xx18. However the latter has (1) pathing and <1> performance approaching Shaftholme Jn and then (1H) pathing approaching Doncaster. There is nothing obvious to check it down requiring the addition of (1) as pathing time at Shaftholme so if it is right time off York it can be expected to be approaching Doncaster 3 early as it will pick up the pathing/performance time and be checked down whilst the Leeds goes across in front.

 

[pemma]

The amount of padding on ATW services between Shrewsbury and Manchester is ridiculous. The train usually hangs around at Crewe for 10 minutes, and even after that you can often get the 10:11 TPE connection to Scarborough when the arrival of the ATW service is supposed to be 10:15! :roll: It does NOT take almost 20 minutes to travel from Stockport to Manchester Piccadilly!!

For a ridiculous example look at the two Northern morning peak Chester-Stockport services and the connection times for Piccadilly (using Northern services which terminate at Piccadilly.)

The reverse in the afternoon looks better but the connections are using Liverpool-Norwich services so in practice they don't work as the services usually get delayed due to high passenger numbers.

 

[michael769]

With train punctuality improving all the time, it is inevitable that the result will be tougher targets.

If this results in timetable changes I feel that is a good thing. If trains are routinely unable to run to the published timetable then it is clearly over optimistic and should be changed to reflect reality.

I know that Transport Scotland is looking at applying some rules to intermediate stations as well as the end of journey to put a stop to nonsense where a service routinely arrives late at its intermediate but is then treated as on time because of padding applied to the end of the journey. (The stopping services on the Shotts line are a major offender for this!)

 

[monty9120]

What about when you book advanced tickets or any tickets in general?

They have all your connections spelled out.
The time scale is so marginal, if one trains late, your late for all the rest.
This results in having an issue with your advanced ticket for a certain journey.

I caught the correct connection from stourbridge to birmingham moor street once.
The train wasnt late, but the time given between there and my next train at new street was so small.
I had to run and i only just made it.

Maybe connections should have more leway instead?

 

[Failed Unit]

What about when you book advanced tickets or any tickets in general?

They have all your connections spelled out.
The time scale is so marginal, if one trains late, your late for all the rest.
This results in having an issue with your advanced ticket for a certain journey.

I caught the correct connection from stourbridge to birmingham moor street once.
The train wasnt late, but the time given between there and my next train at new street was so small.
I had to run and i only just made it.

Maybe connections should have more leway instead?

It is a fine line, 7 minutes at Newark Northgate is fine unless you train is 6 minutes late. But if the extended it to 10 then you have the same problem a 9 minutes late etc.

 

[Wath Yard]

I would be very surprised if the publically published punctuality figures were amended to report on time, rather than 'on time', arrivals. Perhaps those used internally, but not the public ones. What Government would want rail punctuality to drop from 90% to 80% (or whatever) during their period in office?

 

[monty9120]

It is a fine line, 7 minutes at Newark Northgate is fine unless you train is 6 minutes late. But if the extended it to 10 then you have the same problem a 9 minutes late etc.

moor street to new street is a good 7 minute walk if you get stuck at the traffic lights or theres a massive cue through the barriers. it all adds time.

This doesnt include all the stairs at moor street all the stairs at new street and millions of people rushing off trains while people are trying to get down too.

 

[Failed Unit]

moor street to new street is a good 7 minute walk if you get stuck at the traffic lights or theres a massive cue through the barriers. it all adds time.

This doesnt include all the stairs at moor street all the stairs at new street and millions of people rushing off trains while people are trying to get down too.

Understand - but what I am say is whatever the minimum connection is you will alway have a delay where running is possible. If the changed moor street to new street to 30 minutes then a 15 minute delay would put you under pressure. It is the same with the Newark walk, but I typically find National rail search engines generous with walking time.