Govia thameslink Notice of intention to prosecute

[mro46]

Hello all,

I have received a Notice of intention to prosecute from Govia Thameslink Railway.

On [date] I was stopped by a RPI at the gate as I was exiting. I had in my possession a valid in date carnet ticket for the journey from Luton to Blackfriars. However I had forgotten to write the date of the journey on the ticket before I reached the gate.
The reason for this was that a close family member had been taken into hospital the day before and subsequently died 3 days after the alleged offence. I just wasn't thinking clearly and the last thing on my mind was writing the date on my ticket.

The interaction with the RPI was frosty but cordial. I insisted that I had a valid ticket and that I just hadn't written the date on it.

I have been asked for a response of the alleged offence of 'failed to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.'

I would like this to go away and not end up in court. If needed I will pay a fine.

Any help on how to proceed is very much appreciated.

Many thanks

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@mro46. Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, if you have a carnet ticket which you haven't dated (in black ink) before you board the train and start your journey, then you don't actually have a valid ticket!

Extract of conditions...

To use a ticket, you must fill in the travel date in black permanent ink before boarding the train.

Off-Peak Carnet tickets (Thameslink and Great Northern) | National Rail

Special offer: Off-Peak Carnet tickets (Thameslink and Great Northern). The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

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Others on here will be able to advise how best to take this forward, should, as is likely, you hear, in due course, from the Train Company or their agents.

 

[mro46]

@mro46. Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, if you have a carnet ticket which you haven't dated (in black ink) before you board the train and start your journey, then you don't actually have a valid ticket!

Extract of conditions...

Off-Peak Carnet tickets (Thameslink and Great Northern) | National Rail

Special offer: Off-Peak Carnet tickets (Thameslink and Great Northern). The portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

Others on here will be able to advise how best to take this forward, should, as is likely, you hear, in due course, from the Train Company or their agents.

Many thanks for the reply.

I have the letter giving me 14 days to give my side of events.

After looking up the details on carnet tickets, I do now realise that the date must be written on the ticket before travel.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Were the ticket barriers and Luton open when you started your journey because in my experience carnet tickets are set up to be rejected at the barriers so that they can be manually checked?

I would think about including the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

Feel free to post a copy your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it.

 

[mikeg]

Is there a possibility that the OP is being charged under the wrong byelaw and that the case will fail? They're being charged with failure to hand over a ticket, not traveling without a ticket entitling travel. There was a case involving FCC a while ago that said the ticket didn't have to be a valid one for the purposes of this particular byelaw, merely the ticket the passenger was using for that journey.

 

[Hadders]

Is there a possibility that the OP is being charged under the wrong byelaw and that the case will fail? They're being charged with failure to hand over a ticket, not traveling without a ticket entitling travel. There was a case involving FCC a while ago that said the ticket didn't have to be a valid one for the purposes of this particular byelaw, merely the ticket the passenger was using for that journey.

The OP hasn't been charged with anything at this stage. They have been sent a letter saying that they have been sent a report, and are asking for the OP's version of events before deciding whether to prosecute.

I suggest the OP engages and attempts to secure an out of court settlement but if the case does end up with a court sumons then we can check they are being prosecuted under the correct bylaw.

 

[mro46]

@Hadders @mikeg thanks for the replies.

The letter that I have from GTR does state "Failed to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person."

I handed my carnet ticket to the RPI at the gate when he took my details etc.

 

[WesternLancer]

@Hadders @mikeg thanks for the replies.

The letter that I have from GTR does state "Failed to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person."

I handed my carnet ticket to the RPI at the gate when he took my details etc.

Well if you pointed this out and asked for it to be corrected I assume you would just get another similar letter but with the correct 'offence' ie that the ticket was not valid as it was not completed with the date. Not sure what happens tho if you reply to that letter saying that you did hand your ticket over (and do not mention that it was not valid, but see what they do next) - I am not sure if that is good advice or not - I'd be interested to see what others think before you actually do it!

If the case did end up in court (I doubt it will if you engage with them) it strikes me that you should put on record a correction to this erroneous allegation - even if you admit that the issue that was drawn to your attention by staff was that the ticket date was not completed - and thus ticket not valid, which was due to a recent bereavement which meant you were not focussed and made a one off error , but you would now like the opportunity to put things right etc.

 

[Gloster]

I would limit any reference to the reason you were not as organised as usual to the briefest possible one: just enough to put on record why you made such a one-off mistake. (I am no expert and wiser heads may think otherwise.)

 

[Deafdoggie]

I would limit any reference to the reason you were not as organised as usual to the briefest possible one: just enough to put on record why you made such a one-off mistake. (I am no expert and wiser heads may think otherwise.)

Personally, I'd be minded to say a magistrate would be more likely to take this into account. Of course, the railways are less so, but if you don't tell them they'll just say you should have! Certainly no need to labour the point but I can't see a brief explanation causing any harm.

 

[mro46]

Thank you all for your advice.

I have followed @Hadders advice, sent a letter explaining my version of events.

I will update once I receive a reply and go from there.

 

[mro46]

Hello all,

I have an update. Today I received a letter from GTR for an out of court settlement of £66.80.

I have 14 days to pay...

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello all,

I have an update. Today I received a letter from GTR for an out of court settlement of £66.80.

I have 14 days to pay...

Not bad but could be worse! Prob best to pay this ASAP to close the matter.

Given you had not completed the carnet did you get to have that journey without using that days travel? If so at least that is set against the sum asked for...but I suspect it's not worked like that.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know. This is a decent result in my view so I would pay the sun asap to prevent the matter from escalating.