Grand Central stranding passengers (28/03)?

[800001]

I see. I think Lumo and Hull Trains share an ops team, an MD and (possibly?) drivers.

The control team is TPE in Manchester. Lumo/Hull do not share drivers.

 

[GrandCentral]

Anger after Sunderland rail passengers 'left stranded'

Councillor: ‘it is now completely unreliable’

www.sunderlandecho.com

Grand Central have been slammed by a local councillor and their response is weak as hell!

Is anyone else feeling like GC will see things through to 2026 and then just shut up shop. Surely an extension to their TAA would have been submitted by now?

 

[1D53]

It was all going so well until the last line...

Grand Central’s current Sunderland-King’s Cross franchise is due to run out in 2026.

 

[WF4HA5HE]

Anger after Sunderland rail passengers 'left stranded'

Councillor: ‘it is now completely unreliable’

www.sunderlandecho.com

Grand Central have been slammed by a local councillor and their response is weak as hell!

Is anyone else feeling like GC will see things through to 2026 and then just shut up shop. Surely an extension to their TAA would have been submitted by now?

Have they not submitted another track access agreement yet for beyond 2026?

 

[paul1609]

When Grand Central started I remember some people claiming that the service to Sunderland wasn't financially viable and that it was really little more than an orcats raid on the ECML south of York with the extension to the Durham Coast to justify it's existence. Has the LNER fares changes meant that GCs orcats allocation has shrunk to the extent that the ne operation is no longer viable?

 

[ainsworth74]

When Grand Central started I remember some people claiming that the service to Sunderland wasn't financially viable and that it was really little more than an orcats raid on the ECML south of York with the extension to the Durham Coast to justify it's existence. Has the LNER fares changes meant that GCs orcats allocation has shrunk to the extent that the ne operation is no longer viable?

Hard to know really! Their most recent account (likely the only hard information on their financial performance in the public domain) are for the year through to 31 December 2022 and show pre-tax losses of £3.2m which, to be fair, is a considerable improvement on 2021 where the loss was a somewhat eye watering £22m. They blame the losses on the Omicron variant at the start of 2022, poor reliability later in the year, cost of living pressures and inflation. 2023 will be interesting to see as some of those factors of course continued to play a role on the national stage. That being said its interesting to contrast with Hull Trains. Their most recent accounts run for the year to 31 March 2023 and show a pre-tax profit of £5.8m (compared to losses of £3.9m the previous year to 31 March 2022) which, to be fair, the accounts do describe as being "ahead of expectations" so presumably took them somewhat by surprise.

I dunno if I'd forecast the demise of Grand Central but you do suspect that what happened financially in 2023 and so far in 2024 (which we don't know yet, but they and their owners will) is probably going to be quite important to any decisions made about their future. There's only so long Arriva and DB will be willing to stomach millions of pounds of losses no matter how valuable the ECML paths may be on paper!

 

[357]

I travel on GC regularly and I'm never on a quiet train, even from Bradford the loadings always look healthy. By contrast, I travel on LNER at least weekly and am regularly the only person in the carriage even upon arrival at Kings Cross during the day.

Is anyone else feeling like GC will see things through to 2026 and then just shut up shop. Surely an extension to their TAA would have been submitted by now?

As an OAO there is no franchise and there is no requirement to use paths until the end of the current access agreement. Google "Wrexham & Shropshire".

 

[WAB]

I dunno if I'd forecast the demise of Grand Central but you do suspect that what happened financially in 2023 and so far in 2024 (which we don't know yet, but they and their owners will) is probably going to be quite important to any decisions made about their future. There's only so long Arriva and DB will be willing to stomach millions of pounds of losses no matter how valuable the ECML paths may be on paper!

And it'll be interesting to see what approach to GC iSquared will have. They may be less tolerant to losses.

 

[greyman42]

I travel on GC regularly and I'm never on a quiet train, even from Bradford the loadings always look healthy. By contrast, I travel on LNER at least weekly and am regularly the only person in the carriage even upon arrival at Kings Cross during the day.

Where do you travel from?

 

[357]

Normally either Bradford Interchange or York through to London or vice versa

 

[greyman42]

Normally either Bradford Interchange or York through to London or vice versa

I find it hard to believe that you are the only person in a carriage arriving on LNER from York or Leeds.

 

[paul1609]

I find it hard to believe that you are the only person in a carriage arriving on LNER from York or Leeds.

I very rarely travel on the ECML but had a recent return trip to Peterborough on a Saturday for football. Travelling on a cross London Advance I was surprised to find the return train ex Leeds near empty just after 6 at Peterborough so it does happen.

 

[357]

I find it hard to believe that you are the only person in a carriage arriving on LNER from York or Leeds.

Not from York, but rear coaches of a Leeds job during the day and not unusual at all.

I might keep a spreadsheet of how many people are in the carriage over the next couple of months. I'll post it both here and also in "Dull Mens Club".

 

[greyman42]

I very rarely travel on the ECML but had a recent return trip to Peterborough on a Saturday for football. Travelling on a cross London Advance I was surprised to find the return train ex Leeds near empty just after 6 at Peterborough so it does happen.

Thanks, i did not realise the ex Leeds services were as lightly loaded.