Grand central ticket acceptance.

[londonbridge]

I arrived at Sunderland at 10:00, to find the 10:17 to Kings Cross, for which I have an advance, cancelled.

I spoke to ticket office who said there’s no LNER acceptance and to get the 12:30.

I quoted my PRO rights, which they acknowledged but said I’d have to take it up with GC if I bought a new ticket and claimed back the cost. GC Twitter/x advice for 10:17 says passengers boarding at York or Peterborough only may use their ticket on the 12:02 LNER.

Probably less hassle to wait for the 12:30 and claim 75% delay repay for a 2 hour delay (I’ve checked their website), as opposed to buying a new ticket and then threatening to sue when they invariably refuse to refund it), but if they can sort out acceptance for passengers boarding at York, why not for the whole journey (though I appreciate it’s probably down to what LNER agreed to).

 

[redreni]

Didn’t really want to start another thread but suitable threads in which I could have posted this are all closed. Anyway, arrived at Sunderland at 10:00, to find the 10:17 to Kings Cross, for which I have an advance, cancelled. Spoke to ticket office who said there’s no LNER acceptance and to get the 12:30. Quoted my PRO rights, which they acknowledged but said I’d have to take it up with GC if I bought a new ticket and claimed back the cost. GC Twitter/x advice for 10:17 says passengers boarding at York or Peterborough only may use their ticket on the 12:02 LNER. Probably less hassle to wait for the 12:30 and claim 75% delay repay for a 2 hour delay (I’ve checked their website), as opposed to buying a new ticket and then threatening to sue when they invariably refuse to refund it), but if they can sort out acceptance for passengers boarding at York, why not for the whole journey (though I appreciate it’s probably down to what LNER agreed to).

Where are you now?

As far as I can see if you're still at Sunderland now, there's no longer a quicker option than the 12:30 anyway.

I have thought through what I would do in this situation, as I do occasionally book travel with GC, although I've been lucky so far so haven't needed to implement the plan.

My general attitude is that if they cancel the train, I will immediately contact them asking to be re-routed (no good asking station staff unless they work for GC, and better in any case to ask on twitter as then it's documented) and then I won't wait around - I will re-route myself at the earliest opportunity, buying tickets as necessary, then pursue GC for reimbursement.

That's partly because, if I travel with GC, it will generally be to go to an event and I can't be waiting around 2, 3 or 4 hours or I would miss the event. But it's also because I just think it's outrageous that they seem to regard their regulatory obligations as a "nice to have" rather than something they need to comply with whether it's convenient for them or not.

 

[londonbridge]

Yes, still here waiting for the 12:30. Decided I’d rather not tie up the cost of an LNER super offpeak single (which was the cheapest option for immediate travel) and then have to threaten to pursue GC through the courts if they refused to reimburse it, when it’s potentially less hassle to suck up the delay and claim 75% of my original ticket back as per their delay repay policy. Just irritating that they could sort out acceptance at York, but not Sunderland. If I’d found out about the cancellation earlier I could have got to York for the 12:08 for £21, but no doubt LNER would then most likely have refused my GC ticket because York wasn’t its origin. Plus my train from London-Newcastle yesterday was delayed as well so I’m claiming from LNER for that, so I should hopefully get the majority of my Springsteen travel money back.

Also this is actuallly the first time I’ve had a GC cancelled with no ticket acceptance in place, as on the two previous occasions they sent me via Newcastle. Guess I’ve just been lucky until now.

 

[yorkie]

Your choices in this situation are to do one of the following three (depending on cost, and your appetite for faff etc):

1) Take the revised trains offered by GC and claim delay compensation accordingly.
2) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit the original ticket for a full refund (no admin fee) from the point of sale
3) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit this replacement ticket to GC for a full refund, on the basis that GC refused to arrange a suitable alternative under the PRO, when an alternative was available.

GC know that most people won't go for option 3 so they continue to disregard their obligations under the PRO.

See:

My advice: Never book to travel with Grand Central

https://twitter.com/GC_Rail/status/1680472571140030465 Unfortunately, due to a shortage of train drivers, both the 09:24 Sunderland to London Kings Cross and the 13:50 London Kings Cross to Sunderland are cancelled today. Customers may use their existing ticket on any alternative Grand Central...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[londonbridge]

Your choices in this situation are to do one of the following three (depending on cost, and your appetite for faff etc):

1) Take the revised trains offered by GC and claim delay compensation accordingly.
2) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit the original ticket for a full refund (no admin fee) from the point of sale
3) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit this replacement ticket to GC for a full refund, on the basis that GC refused to arrange a suitable alternative under the PRO, when an alternative was available.

GC know that most people won't go for option 3 so they continue to disregard their obligations under the PRO.

Agree re option three, I’ve had run ins with ticket agencies refusing to refund booking and other fees when an event is cancelled because “it’s in our t’s and c’s”, whereas my understanding is that you would be legally entitled to a full refund of all monies paid, however they get away with it because they know most people can’t/wont be bothered with the prospect or hassle of legal action over a few quid.

 

[Haywain]

I spoke to ticket office who said there’s no LNER acceptance and to get the 12:30.

I wuoted my PRO rights, which they acknowledged but said I’d have to take it up with GC if I bought a new ticket and claimed back the cost. GC

Your PRO rights are nothing to do with the ticket office staff employed by Northern, so they were quite right.

it’s probably down to what LNER agreed to

On the contrary, it's probably down to what GC felt they couldn't agree to.

 

[Watershed]

Your PRO rights are nothing to do with the ticket office staff employed by Northern, so they were quite right.

They were correct from a purely legal standpoint - which seems to be the rail industry's default position. But from a customer service perspective it would have been entirely right and reasonable to provide an endorsement (or other authority) that allowed the OP to travel on any operator. Of course the rail industry is too fragmented and parochial for that to be considered normal.

On the contrary, it's probably down to what GC felt they couldn't agree to.

It's not entirely clear to me what you mean by this?

 

[Haywain]

It's not entirely clear to me what you mean by this?

I mean that it was probably that GC chose not to pay what was being asked rather than LNER refusing to carry GC ticket holders.

 

[800001]

Most likely as the 1202 starts at York it’s a quieter LNER service than the LNERs that come from Newcastle.

Also, due to flooding at Carlisle, LNER have been accepting Avanti, TPE and Caledonian Sleeper passengers on the Edinburgh to Kings Cross Route.

Multiple reports of full and standing LNER southbound services, that will be reason no acceptance granted for Grand Central customers from stations north of York.

 

[londonbridge]

Your PRO rights are nothing to do with the ticket office staff employed by Northern, so they were quite right.


On the contrary, it's probably down to what GC felt they couldn't agree to.

Point one is not in dispute, I merely asked them was there any ticket acceptance and mentioned my PRO rights which, as I said, they acknowledged and referred me to GC if I wanted to go down that route.

@800001 ah, that makes some sense in that sorting out multiple passengers disrupted by severe weather and flooding will be of greater priority than sorting out one trainload of passengers who were disrupted due to a train fault which caused their intended service to be cancelled.

 

[Starmill]

I mean that it was probably that GC chose not to pay what was being asked rather than LNER refusing to carry GC ticket holders. I thought it was fairly clear, but you seem to want to pick holes in my posts.

I guess the reason it's confusing is because GC did agree to pay for their passengers waiting at York and Peterborough to be carried on that alternative service.

Perhaps the true problem was that it was considered too much hassle to get ticket acceptance for the TransPennine Express service which connects into the 1202? Or indeed that it was cancelled or at risk of being cancelled, and missing the 1202?

Alternatively were you getting at the possibility of ticket acceptance for the 1232 and 1333 from York being available but only at a price so high compared to the 1202 that GC wouldn't pay it?

 

[Haywain]

Alternatively were you getting at the possibility of ticket acceptance for the 1232 and 1333 from York being available but only at a price so high compared to the 1202 that GC wouldn't pay it?

That is possible. Whatever the reason, it’s not as if GC don’t have form for failing their customers.

 

[Starmill]

That is possible. Whatever the reason, it’s not as if GC don’t have form for failing their customers.

Sadly true.

 

[Leisurefirst]

Had an interesting situation last year with GC.
Was booked on the final GC service of the day from Sunderland to King's Cross.
Was staying in Sunderland but wanted to spend the afternoon in Tynemouth so left the luggage (for two) at the hotel to pick up when back at Sunderland.
Whilst in Tynemouth checked in case and discovered that the GC was cancelled and advised to take specific Northern to Newcastle then LNER.
Therefore had to had travel all the way back to Sunderland to collect luggage passing through Newcastle on the Metro en route and back to Newcastle.
Was really poor comms btw, I had to tell a couple if people on the platform what to do who had no idea.
The happy bit was that I'd accidentally won two First Class upgrades on Seatfrog. (Accidentally because I wasn't particularly enamoured with the offering on a previous journey and forgot to cancel bidding).
They were apparently valid on LNER's vastly superior First instead to my surprise and our delight!
Made all the hassle worthwhile!

 

[redreni]

I guess the reason it's confusing is because GC did agree to pay for their passengers waiting at York and Peterborough to be carried on that alternative service.

Perhaps the true problem was that it was considered too much hassle to get ticket acceptance for the TransPennine Express service which connects into the 1202? Or indeed that it was cancelled or at risk of being cancelled, and missing the 1202?

Alternatively were you getting at the possibility of ticket acceptance for the 1232 and 1333 from York being available but only at a price so high compared to the 1202 that GC wouldn't pay it?

I suspect it's because they think their PRO obligations are optional, so they would be quite happy to let everyone booked on the 10.17 wait until 12.30, but snce most of their passengers get on at York (because their business model is primarily extractive by any reasonable definition of that term - albeit not by the technical definition), they probably knew they couldn't fit two trainloads of people on that train, so they arranged ticket acceptance to clear the buildup of passengers at York.

I can also see why LNER would have been more willing to allow ticket acceptance on a specific train that starts at York than on other LNER trains that start further north and would be arriving at York already heaving, due to the closure of the WCML at Carlisle.

 

[DeverseSam]

Your choices in this situation are to do one of the following three (depending on cost, and your appetite for faff etc):

1) Take the revised trains offered by GC and claim delay compensation accordingly.
2) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit the original ticket for a full refund (no admin fee) from the point of sale
3) Buy a new ticket at your own expense and submit this replacement ticket to GC for a full refund, on the basis that GC refused to arrange a suitable alternative under the PRO, when an alternative was available.

GC know that most people won't go for option 3 so they continue to disregard their obligations under the PRO.

See:

My advice: Never book to travel with Grand Central

https://twitter.com/GC_Rail/status/1680472571140030465 Unfortunately, due to a shortage of train drivers, both the 09:24 Sunderland to London Kings Cross and the 13:50 London Kings Cross to Sunderland are cancelled today. Customers may use their existing ticket on any alternative Grand Central...

www.railforums.co.uk

4) Board the first train that comes and hope to not be checked before York, but if you are, explain nicely to the guard about the cancellation

Ideally be in a group with others in the same situation

 

[ainsworth74]

4) Board the first train that comes and hope to not be checked before York, but if you are, explain nicely to the guard about the cancellation

I would add "...and be willing to pay for a single ticket at least from Newcastle to York if refused travel once on board." to that option.