Grays - Ramsgate via TILBRY&GRAVESND

[jnjkerbin]

Hello,

I've been looking around on various websites looking for somewhere to buy an Off-Peak Day Return from Grays to Ramsgate which is routed via the ferry, but whilst some websites offer the itinerary that way, I haven't been able to find any that actually offer the cheaper fare (ie. they only sell the Any Permitted + route). Does anyone know of any website that can sell these, or if not, can a station TVM sell them?

Thanks very much

 

[Romilly]

I can only find those tickets on the Virgin Trains East Coast website. Search for Grays to Ramsgate and, when you get the view of times and trains, use the filters button in the top right corner to opt for via Tilbury Riverside and avoid Ebbsfleet International.

 

[jnjkerbin]

Fantastic, thank you very much!

 

[talldave]

Is it worth asking C2C or Southeastern why they don't sell these tickets?

 

[PeterC]

Is it worth asking C2C or Southeastern why they don't sell these tickets?

With the need for a bus transfer from Tilbury Town to the ferry terminal at Tilbury Riverside and a treck to the station at Gravesend I don't think that through fares are of much interest to the non enthusiast.I was surprised that they are available at all.

Incidentally ENCTS is valid on the Ferry after 9:30

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

This particular kind of ticket (priced by C2C, routed Tilbry&Gravesnd) was the subject of a previous ticketing dispute with @RJ. It used to simply say 'Gravesnd Not Ferry' ISTR. I don't really understand the purpose of it being offered when selecting an origin or destination on either side of the river itself (i.e. Tilbury or Gravesend), given that it is not valid to actually go on the ferry.

 

[RJ]

Yes - it was routed Tilbury excl ferry. How it read was that you had to go via Tilbury but the ferry wasn't included. If via Tilbury was the only restriction then that still allowed you to go via HS1 as it was permitted in the Routeing Guide. At the time, Southeastern's stance was the Conditions of Carriage did not apply to HS1 travel so the rules on displaying route restrictions on tickets were not applicable to them. Their belief was validity was based on price alone where HS1 was concerned - and were in a flap internally as to which routes the ticket could be used on. Their staff had enough time on their hands to read this forum and send screenshots of my posts on here around, but not to understand the framework on which the ticketing system operates.

Eventually, I think ATOC provided them with advice and Southeastern had the route description changed to what it is now. But not before emailing the routing data people directly to exclude Northfleet as a via point in the journey planners, which is what prevents the ticket showing up online. They can however be bought at a TVM. Hope this addresses a few questions that have been raised in this thread.

I advise use of the ticket as is still better value than a lot of Southeastern's own fares in the north Kent area. I'd buy it if I had a need to travel around there.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Yes - it was routed Tilbury excl ferry. How it read was that you had to go via Tilbury but the ferry wasn't included. If via Tilbury was the only restriction then that still allowed you to go via HS1 as it was permitted in the Routeing Guide. At the time, Southeastern's stance was the Conditions of Carriage did not apply to HS1 travel so the rules on displaying route restrictions on tickets were not applicable to them. Their belief was validity was based on price alone where HS1 was concerned - and were in a flap internally as to which routes the ticket could be used on. Their staff had enough time on their hands to read this forum and send screenshots of my posts on here around, but not to understand the framework on which the ticketing system operates.

Eventually, I think ATOC provided them with advice and Southeastern had the route description changed to what it is now. But not before emailing the routing data people directly to exclude Northfleet as a via point in the journey planners, which is what prevents the ticket showing up online. They can however be bought at a TVM. Hope this addresses a few questions that have been raised in this thread.

I advise use of the ticket as is still better value than a lot of Southeastern's own fares in the north Kent area. I'd buy it if I had a need to travel around there.

[Comment edited.]

 

[RJ]

So, you are saying that using it as you did (to go on HS1) is still valid? I know it doesn't say 'NOT VIA HS1' or something similarly clear. Is there a way of constructing such a permitted route that goes via Tilbury and also HS1?

It's valid by any permitted route that passes through Tilbury and Gravesend as far as I can tell - check the NRG for any futher restrictions. No good for HS1 from Ashford but not sure about from Gravesend.

 

[yorkie]

So, you are saying that using it as you did (to go on HS1) is still valid?

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but as you've asked the question, I will answer: it is contractually valid via all permitted routes that pass through both Gravesend and Tilbury.

However just because it is valid on all such permitted routes, that does NOT mean it will be a hassle-free journey....

 

[RJ]

Just a note, not sure how recently it was done but the ferry service is now shown in National Rail Enquires - Gravesend Piers (GFR) and Tilbury Riverside (TBR) are the interchange points. The route also gets a mention on the Tilbury Town station page - it is officially valid on the Ensignbus service between Tilbury Riverside and Tilbury Town

The ticket still doesn't show up in the journey planners, presumably because a restriction at Northfleet is in place.

 

[yorkie]

The last time I did it, the ferry was effectively a working museum; it was like going through a time warp.

It was a lengthy walk through dereliction at Tilbury between the ferry terminal and bus stop and the bus went without us. One of our group was blind so we could not walk at rapid speed to make it. Two of us decided to walk rather than wait ages for the next bus.

Not many people seem to do it as a through rail - sea - bus - rail journey (probably because of the fact that this country's transport policy is designed around putting people off integrated transport as much as possible).

 

[Typhoon]

Incidentally ENCTS is valid on the Ferry after 9:30

For some it is better than that

Travel is free at any time for holders of a Thurrock, Kent or Medway National Concessionary Bus Pass. Other National Concessionary Bus Pass holders travel will be charged at the child rate for a single or return before 9:30am on weekdays, and may travel for free at all other times.
(https://www.thurrock.gov.uk/ferry-services/tilbury-to-gravesend-ferry-service)