If GN start using revenue inspectors like GA do in the off peak then we could see more enforcement of first. Thameslink use them so I don't see why they can't put them on GN as well to. Plus the 379s have a sumptuous first class seat and provided they don't get rid of them I wouldn't be surprised to see an increase in first class ticket sales when regulars or semi-regular users discover them.
The last run was about two years ago but I cannot recall the exact date. They were gradually taken out of service towards the end of 2021. By January 2022 most trains were 720s with 317s filling in the gaps.
It’ll be the usual wikipedia ping-pong until months after they enter service.Someone's updated Wikipedia to include this news (obviously given the site the contents may change in due course):
British Rail Class 379 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
They're also a step change in standard class seat comfort, in my opinion. They actually have padding.
Well they don't need 30 to cover the additional services to Peterborough so some 387's are going to be displaced presumably to Southern and instigate a wider cascade as suggested a few days back.
An equal number of 387s are planned to be cascaded to SN.
Not wasting money as its not just ECML that will have ETCS eventually.
Some might argue that ETCS retrofits are a money pit… but you didn’t hear it from me
Previous posts have suggested that fewer than 30 387s will transfer to Southern, as there will need to be some retained for additional GN services. Is the detail of the actual cascade and who gets what uplift all finalised?
People shouldn't assume that's what is happening.
Indeed not, without an announcement.
Of note is this quote by GTR's Engineering Director (my bold/underlining):Now announced by the ROSCO
Porterbrook acquires Electrostar fleet · Porterbrook
www.porterbrook.co.uk
My understanding of this is that the 379's are here to increase capacity and not to enable some sort of complicated cascade (although I would expect some movement of units, just not of the scale or complexity being discussed here).
It was suggested elsewhere that all 39 would go to Southern, allowing a similar amount of 377/1s to join Southeastern, with some of the not at all intensively used 717 fleet working a few of the more lightly loaded current 700 workings out of King's Cross. A handful of 700s would then support the 379s on Ely services. I can't remember where I saw that now.
I suppose there's little merit in that for SE as the 377/1s have three different layouts among them anyway, so that's not really a serious suggestion that I'd believe to be beneficial, just me being unusually a little OCD there 
“Elsewhere”? Isn’t that basically what has been suggested in the last few pages of this very thread?
If neatness and consistency is what you desire - thank goodness you don’t work as a diesel fleet engineer!Only in the pernickety interests of neatness and consistency, if GTR did become in a position to give Southeastern around 40 377/1s, it's a shame they couldn't instead hand over all 64 377/1s and therefore take their 377/5s (there's 23 so it works!), meaning both TOCs would have a whole subclass rather than half and half.
That would suggest it's unlikely for 30ish 377/1s to go to Southeastern then
It's not really what I desire as such, I just noticed that the numbers would have addd up and thought ooh! As I said, no real sentiment behind the statement.
Well, looks like we've found where I saw it then.
Apparently 377/5s have been having reliability issues recently, to the point Networkers are ironically on extra Maidstone East line diagrams to cover for this.Only in the pernickety interests of neatness and consistency, if GTR did become in a position to give Southeastern around 40 377/1s, it's a shame they couldn't instead hand over all 64 377/1s and therefore take their 377/5s (there's 23 so it works!), meaning both TOCs would have a whole subclass rather than half and half.
Does Great Northern have the stabling capacity to allow a significant increase in its fleet size?
Well they did manage to get DafT to agree to change the covers on perfectly good 707's so precedence set.It was suggested elsewhere that all 39 would go to Southern, allowing a similar amount of 377/1s to join Southeastern, with some of the not at all intensively used 717 fleet working a few of the more lightly loaded current 700 workings out of King's Cross. A handful of 700s would then support the 379s on Ely services. I can't remember where I saw that now.
I'm keen to know if Southeastern actually plan to give their 377s their own interior. They put so much work into making the 375s nice inside, but then received the 377/5s and just left them with absolutely filthy green seat covers and Southern blue walls and panels. The 377/1s won't be filthy thanks to the refurbishment, but they will be off brand.
Only in the pernickety interests of neatness and consistency, if GTR did become in a position to give Southeastern around 40 377/1s, it's a shame they couldn't instead hand over all 64 377/1s and therefore take their 377/5s (there's 23 so it works!), meaning both TOCs would have a whole subclass rather than half and half.
Before Covid it had:
Thameslink don't need any more units there are no plans to increase anymore services and Maidstone to Cambridge is binned. Given the high cost of class 700 leases, nearly as worse as the IET contract, they should be maximising utilisation of the units.
How is Southern doing fleetwise since the 455s and 313s have gone?
Exactly, most people have got over excited wit SE rumours but the SE fleet size after a potential retirement of the MetCamm 465/466s would be similar to 6/7 years ago when accounting for changes to service levels due to Thameslink Rainhams and the addition of 707s. SE also don't have the depot space for the sizes of fleet increase that are being fanaticised about.
Badly that is why the 379s are needed to start a cascade.
In which case Southern doesn't need any more units either as there are no plans to increase services there. The plan I suggested future-proofs for potential passenger growth across all three brands.
Fairly alright I should imagine. Keep in mind that the Thameslink programme transferred a lot of Southern services to Thameslink, which in turn released 377's which have stayed with Southern. I vaguely recall that as a result they had a somewhat low utilisation rate (~70%?), but I could be wrong on that.
Yes, I was implying that an SE cascade would most likely not happen and that the 379's were coming to increase the fleet size at GTR. I don't think GN can accommodate a fleet of 69 outer-suburban 4 coach units on its own - some have to move somewhere, just not as many as people are suggesting (in my opinion).
It's probably somewhere in the middle - I think the SE cascade will happen but fewer units will move (both GN to Southern and from there to Southeastern) than people are implying.
