Great Northern Fleet - 379s

[Hadders]

The 365s started to get the white livery with 'stickers' in when they were refreshed around 2014 (might've been a year or two earlier). Those of us on here at the time referred to this refresh as a 'dumbing down' of the trains to get us used to the class 700s.

The 700s were ordered when First Capital Connect held the franchise so I'm not surprised they were ordered in an all white livery given there would've been uncertainty about which train company was going to hold the franchise once they entered service.

 

[Mikey C]

The Thameslink/Great Northern bland livery was born around the same time as the grey East Coast livery IIRC because the DfT specified bland base liveries to allow just the operator logo and to prevent trains running around in previous operator’s colours when the franchise changed. I think that’s why Virgin West Coast went white too with flowing silk coach ends. They can be ripped off easily and the train doesn’t need repainting.

I wish GN would at least adopt vinyls on the doors of the 387s and 379s in the Thameslink light blue for a little bit of commonality!

It does feel very inconsistent though, a the other operators into London have far more colour in their liveries, even with new liveries like Avanti and SWR.

 

[jon0844]

As far as the different liveries on 387s are concerned, I like the variety and I'm not really bothered about a consistent image. It reminds me a lot of the early days of the Class 375 refurbishment where the dark blue 375s mixed with five different white-based liveries.

I am not bothered about liveries either, but there needs to be clear markings for things like first class or where the accessible section is etc. That currently isn't consistent and can cause issues.

 

[physics34]

I am not bothered about liveries either, but there needs to be clear markings for things like first class or where the accessible section is etc. That currently isn't consistent and can cause issues.

As a traditionalist, i feel liveries give a sense of professionalism and they are also an 'advert' for the service, hence my 'droning on' call for standardised liveries. A bit of blue vinyl on the 387 doors would not have hurt anyone... and as said before it surprising that GTR dont take this more seriously as they usually like being specific about 'branding' .

Fully agree with sentiments regarding first class, disabled labelling etc

 

[jon0844]

GTR can't likely do anything without DfT approval now, just as with other operators.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Tomorrow 24/04/2024 - Potential moves for 379(s) to Hornsey ?.

Realtime Trains | 0E20 0643 Leicester L.I.P. to Worksop Up Receptions | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0E20 0643 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Worksop Up Receptions on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 5Q22 0949 Worksop Up Receptions to Doncaster Royal Mail Terml | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q22 0949 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Doncaster Royal Mail Terml on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 0Z57 1118 Doncaster Royal Mail Terml to Worksop Up Receptions | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0Z57 1118 departure from Doncaster Royal Mail Terml to Worksop Up Receptions on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 5Q79 1255 Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q79 1255 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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Realtime Trains | 0D79 1750 Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Doncaster Royal Mail Terml | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 0D79 1750 departure from Hornsey E.M.U.D. to Doncaster Royal Mail Terml on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

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The 5Q79 is the one that gets me going !.

 

[Milo T.K]

First 379 has been booted out of Worksop https://partimespotter.wordpress.com/2024/04/24/379-news-1/

 

[Peter Sarf]

At last 379006 on its way to Hornsey being dragged by 57(303 ?). Left Worksop about 45 minutes late.

Realtime Trains | 5Q79 1255 Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. | 24/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q79 1255 departure from Worksop Up Receptions to Hornsey E.M.U.D. on 24/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[03_179]

57303 = correct
379006 = correct

 

[Peter Sarf]

57303 = correct
379006 = correct

Thanks, it's finally happening !.

 

[03_179]

Also approx 63 Late

 

[crunchello]

Are they having work done at Hornsey to “GN-ify” the class (livery, interior maps, stickers etc) or is that happening elsewhere?

 

[Doomotron]

Are they having work done at Hornsey to “GN-ify” the class (livery, interior maps, stickers etc) or is that happening elsewhere?

As far as I'm aware there will be no livery changes (perhaps other than the logo but I'm not certain), just the bare minimum.

 

[crunchello]

As far as I'm aware there will be no livery changes (perhaps other than the logo but I'm not certain), just the bare minimum.

Makes sense to get them into service as quick as possible. Are they all going to Hornsey initially - is there enough space at Hornsey for 30x 379s on top of the 387s and 700s there already?

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

When will they be fitted with ETCS?

 

[crunchello]

When will they be fitted with ETCS?

Based on the fact Porterbrook (who now owns the 379s and also owns the existing GN 387s iirc) has already taken a 387 unit in for First-in-class testing to fit ETCS then I assume it will be very similar to fit to a 379.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Makes sense to get them into service as quick as possible. Are they all going to Hornsey initially - is there enough space at Hornsey for 30x 379s on top of the 387s and 700s there already?

About 30 of the 387s will find their way to Southern with some 377s going to South Eastern. So Hornsey will only ever be a few units up on it usual level.

 

[Bald Rick]

Also approx 63 Late

Its rather later than that - several months

 

[crunchello]

About 30 of the 387s will find their way to Southern with some 377s going to South Eastern. So Hornsey will only ever be a few units up on it usual level.

But surely the 387s won’t leave on a 1-in-1-out basis? So initially during testing before 387s move south then Hornsey will have 30 more units than it usually does.

Although they may switch more 700 maintenance to Three Bridges to make space for them

 

[ThameslinkUser]

But surely the 387s won’t leave on a 1-in-1-out basis?

What's stopping them?

 

[crunchello]

What's stopping them?

The fact that their drivers will require training, and 379s will need dedicated diagrams as they can’t work with 387s. If they go one-in-one-out then they’re going to have a shortage of stock very quickly.

 

[Peter Sarf]

But surely the 387s won’t leave on a 1-in-1-out basis? So initially during testing before 387s move south then Hornsey will have 30 more units than it usually does.

Although they may switch more 700 maintenance to Three Bridges to make space for them

I doubt Hornsey will receive all 30 class 379s overnight / in short time. I expect one 387 will leave Hornsey at a point after each 379 is accepted (so usable). Obviously with a bit of a delay allowing overlap. Hornsey will not take delivery of more than a few 379s above what they already have accepted. Expect the process to take most, if not all, of this year.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The fact that their drivers will require training, and 379s will need dedicated diagrams as they can’t work with 387s. If they go one-in-one-out then they’re going to have a shortage of stock very quickly.

Few 387s split or join these days anyway. Most of them switch between Kings Lynn fast and Cambridge stoppers as 8 cars all day. The 387s having SDO enabled this, with the handful of short platforms on the branch. It would be quite straightforward to drop 2x379s onto those diagrams. I fear what will actually happen is we get more 700/0s to Kings Lynn and the villages and lose more Electrostars than we gain.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

The fact that their drivers will require training,

They're hardly that different. I'd imagine it would be max 1 day of familiarisation for each group of drivers.

379s will need dedicated diagrams as they can’t work with 387s

How does this prevent 387s moving south?

 

[bramling]

Makes sense to get them into service as quick as possible. Are they all going to Hornsey initially - is there enough space at Hornsey for 30x 379s on top of the 387s and 700s there already?

There ought to be space, as GN has lost 21x 365s, and if anything since then there should be very slightly more stabling across the network as a result of the Cambridge sidings works and the extra stabling siding at King’s Lynn.

GN is minus 21x 365 and only up 10x 387 IIRC, so a net shortfall of 11 units compared to 2019.

 

[Mikey C]

Are they having work done at Hornsey to “GN-ify” the class (livery, interior maps, stickers etc) or is that happening elsewhere?

They'll tie planks of wood to the seats to make them fit in better with the current GN stock

 

[crunchello]

How does this prevent 387s moving south?

Because GN will need enough 379s to run a full diagram before they can send any 387s south, unless they're willing to sacrifice a diagram in order to speed up the cascade, which I doubt.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Because GN will need enough 379s to run a full diagram before they can send any 387s south, unless they're willing to sacrifice a diagram in order to speed up the cascade, which I doubt.

That is two or three class 379s for each daily diagram. So, as I said, there will be a few more units floating around at Hornsey. But there will not need to be all 30 387s held back until all the 379s are in service.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

About 30 of the 387s will find their way to Southern with some 377s going to South Eastern. So Hornsey will only ever be a few units up on it usual level.

Will Southeastern railway really need any more 377 from Southern as Southern hasn't had any stock replacement from losing the 455s 46 of them and the 313s 19 of them. I understand totally about they have come to the end of their life expectancies but not replacing them is really bad.

 

[Doomotron]

Will Southeastern railway really need any more 377 from Southern as Southern hasn't had any stock replacement from losing the 455s 46 of them and the 313s 19 of them. I understand totally about they have come to the end of their life expectancies but not replacing them is really bad.

Both Southern and Southeastern need new stock, although since Southern are set to gain more 387s than the amount of 377s they will lose it will/should be an upgrade for both companies, although more trains are needed for both.