Great Northern Inner service reductions

[andystock22]

The peak time Great Northern Inner services have been 4 trains per hour at peak times for the past few weeks.

From Monday 28th Feb 2022 the service is slashed to only 2 trains per hour according to the GN website and NR.

 

[Fred26]

The peak time Great Northern Inner services have been 4 trains per hour at peak times for the past few weeks.

From Monday 28th Feb 2022 the service is slashed to only 2 trains per hour according to the GN website and NR.

That's not entirely true.

They were 4tph last week, but before that some might've run, most didn't.
The timetable has been cut from tomorrow. Though it's generally more than 2tph in the peaks.

 

[higthomas]

That's not entirely true.

They were 4tph last week, but before that some might've run, most didn't.
The timetable has been cut from tomorrow. Though it's generally more than 2tph in the peaks.

What! Why!?

 

[andystock22]

That's not entirely true.

They were 4tph last week, but before that some might've run, most didn't.
The timetable has been cut from tomorrow. Though it's generally more than 2tph in the peaks.

Departures from New Barnet according to national rail:

06:25
06:55
07:25
07:52
08:15
08:25
08:55
09:25
08:55

 

[Fred26]

Departures from New Barnet according to national rail:

06:25
06:55
07:25
07:52
08:15
08:25
08:55
09:25
08:55

'Generally' obviously wasn't the right word.
Sorry, I didn't realise it was that bad.

The service is truly pitiful and has been since restrictions started lifting.

 

[andystock22]

Especially that stations like New Barnet, Oakleigh Park, New Southgate used to have 6 trains an hour pre covid at rush hour.

It's an 66% reduction in the service (apart from 8am to 9am which is a 50% reduction in service)

 

[Failed Unit]

It does seem like an odd reduction. We had 4tph peak from WGC - Moorgate (approx 0710, 0725, 0740 and 0755). Plus the 0732 WGC - kings cross in addition to the Cambridge- London services.

Not many cancellations.

why did they increase the service for 1 week? Surely not worth planning resources.

back to unnecessarily overcrowded trains. Why bother increasing the service last week? Very annoying. This is back to the “covid” timetable with a decent service for 1 week only from 21st Feb and reduced back again on the 28th. Understand the Hertford loop is as bad. Increased for a single week.

 

[philjo]

This week there will also be additional passengers from the Piccadilly and Northern lines using the GN services on the tube strike days so 2tph will not be sufficient.

 

[Failed Unit]

They have said that people will be unable to board trains at the southern end of the route in strike days.

I am going to write to my MP this time.

more because the managed to increase the service level for 1 week, so why immediately reduce it. It set us passengers an expectation when they shouldn’t have bothered improving things at all. They have even removed the “extras” that are supposed to combat overcrowding.

Just one train per hour on the inners from WGC - London. That is the problem, with cancellations when you are at such a low base. Lots of people stood at London end stations.

 

[andystock22]

Only 1 train an hour between 7am to 8am today and yesterday between stations like Hadley Wood, New Barnet, Oakleigh Park and New Southgate to London.

The service has become completely unusable.

 

[Failed Unit]

I would be interested to know how much GTR are saving by not running the service. Staff and Train leasing we are told are the biggest costs, but they need to pay them irrespective of if they run the service. They will of course save the track access charge but is that saving them that much.

It show the contempt the railway still has for customers, cram them in and force them onto what little service we decide to offer (after a 19% fare increase) as most of them have not choice. It is hardly going to encourage people back that may want to try going into the office. I really think the railway needs to be ahead of the demand rather than behind it. Otherwise we will have people try it, like today find only 1 train per hour and not return.

May is really not good enough before we see any improvement.

 

[andystock22]

I would be interested to know how much GTR are saving by not running the service. Staff and Train leasing we are told are the biggest costs, but they need to pay them irrespective of if they run the service. They will of course save the track access charge but is that saving them that much.

It show the contempt the railway still has for customers, cram them in and force them onto what little service we decide to offer (after a 19% fare increase) as most of them have not choice. It is hardly going to encourage people back that may want to try going into the office. I really think the railway needs to be ahead of the demand rather than behind it. Otherwise we will have people try it, like today find only 1 train per hour and not return.

May is really not good enough before we see any improvement.

I've given up with Great Northern and would rather spend 30 mins walking to to the nearest tube station. Yes it slower, but you usually get a decent level of service on the Northern and Pic lines (apart from Stikes).

The six months prior to Covid the GN Moorgate services were really starting to show signs of improvement with the new class 717s and driver availability.

Now it's the worst its ever been.

 

[Class315]

Increased peak service due to return from Monday.

 

[andystock22]

Increased peak service due to return from Monday.

That's good news.

Was the reduction in services this week more to do with the tube strike and the closure of the Northern City Line than driver shortages?

Any idea on how many Moorgate services GN can run into Kings Cross per hour these days with 1 less platform?

 

[BJames]

That's good news.

Was the reduction in services this week more to do with the tube strike and the closure of the Northern City Line than driver shortages?

Any idea on how many Moorgate services GN can run into Kings Cross per hour these days with 1 less platform?

Observation only but they appear to run into one platform (usually 9 or 10) that is basically used exclusively by Welwyn/Hertford services for the day - so currently 4tph with turnaround time - is this correct? This is what I've noticed from actually being at King's Cross, looking at yesterday (3rd) on RTT they are all booked for plat 10 but a couple of services switched into other platforms due to delay etc.

Good to hear the peak extras are returning, they're needed.

 

[Failed Unit]

Seemed to be exclusively 10. 9 used for the Cambridge/ Royston.

It did cause problems on Monday when they were short on drives. As the put an inner on 10 so when the Royston showed up it had no platform until an LNER left.

On a different subject. Anyone know why they can’t run to Moorgate after the strike until after 0800? Surely the station staff should all start as normal and it isn’t delay to train prep etc.

 

[andystock22]

Increased peak service due to return from Monday.

National Rail is still only showing 2 trains an hour from both New Barnet to Finsbury Park and Winchmore Hill to Finsbury Park for the AM Peak on Monday 7 March.

I wonder if this will be updated over the weekend?

 

[Stephen42]

National Rail is still only showing 2 trains an hour from both New Barnet to Finsbury Park and Winchmore Hill to Finsbury Park for the AM Peak on Monday 7 March.

I wonder if this will be updated over the weekend?

The 'Runs as required/Q' flag has been removed for the peak extras in the latest open data timetable update so should appear in regular journey planners Saturday. This gives 8 trains per hour arriving at Moorgate between 7am and 9:30am (4 Welwyn, 2 Hertford, 2 Stevenage) and departing between 4:45pm and 7pm.

It's unclear whether the increase was either always planned for 7th March, due to strike action or needing a decision from above. I'd expect there to be no further additional Moorgate services until the May timetable change where some of the Gordon Hill services might be back.

 

[Failed Unit]

They are now on the great northern online timetable with an “e” above them. No explanation to what that means. We can hope.

 

[station_road]

They are now on the great northern online timetable with an “e” above them. No explanation to what that means. We can hope.

You have to open the 'Key' from a button on the right of the screen - e means 'runs from 7 March'

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks. Missed that on my phone.

All good this morning. I got a standard response from GTR about them cutting the services for the WB-28th Feb which didn't actually address any of the points I made.

For any track bashers, you get the chance to use platform 1 at WGC for the x26 and x56 departures.

But that will do for now and the journey in was much more pleasant.

It is interesting that the 30 minutes frequency remains. Probably because it is no longer possible to do a 20 minute frequency off peak because of the more intensive use of the other lines. Back in the day when it was 20 minutes the faster services used to move to the fast lines at Potters Bar to overtake the slower services. I don't think this is possible now until Alexander Palace so I suspect it is either every 30 minutes off-peak (or every 15 minutes) but hard to do anything in between.

What is interesting is that Saturday's is filling up rapidly in terms of demand. It is very possible that off-peak will have capacity concerns before the peak service. But I guess that is a nice problem for the TOCs to have. Better to run the assets at the same frequency all day. If they Peak frequency doesn't recover as quickly it most help maintenance, driver rotas etc.

My gut feeling is that the 15 minute frequency all day will return quicker than the Gordon Hill - Moorgate extras.

 

[BrianB]

You have to open the 'Key' from a button on the right of the screen - e means 'runs from 7 March'

as the start date of 7 March has now arrived, the E note has been dropped from view. The comment about visibility of the Key in general has also been noted for future improvement