Great Western Railway - Announcements When Reservations are Suspended

[yorksrob]

Sat on a train from Penzance recently. There were no reservation cards and the electronic reservation system wasn't working. The guard made an announcement over the intercom that there were no seat reservations on that service.

Unfortunately there were no further announcements to this effect over the journey and some extremely unpleasent characters joined the train at St Austell and proceeded to start an argument with myself and my travelling companions that they had reserved our seats. Unfortunately, with no announcements or messages on the display to back us up, these people became fairly aggressive (this in spite of there only being about four other people in the whole carriage).

We suggested to a member of onboard staff that they ought to make an announcement at every stop so that people are aware of the lack of reservations. The member of staff said that the crew had been told not make such announcements due announcement fatigue (with all the routine announcements) and that a scrolling message had been put on the screens at the stations.

The railway can't be held responsible for the quality (or lack thereof) of the British public, however my point is that surely they should be announcing at every stop that reservations are void to prevent altarcations, and that simply having a scrolling message at the station is not enough.

I shall be lodging a formal complaint to Great Western, however I was wondering whether anyone else had come across this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've found that GWR at least announce it, whereas other TOCs don't bother and it causes even more arguments.

I still think this (and the default position of windows, blinds etc in the event of dispute, like the French used to) would be easily solved with notices in each coach stating what situation applies when reservations are not displayed. An "official default" would leave only the most stubborn still arguing.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I wouldn't always take notice of the 'No Seat Reservations' message - on the 05/12/19, the 10:20 from Oxford to Worcester Foregate Street, it said that at Oxford and the reservations were working.

2 or 3 times I think I've been on an IET where the screens are blank, + no tickets in the seats, and nothing said on the information screens: 17:26 from Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford (26/02/18), 10:17 from Didcot Parkway to Gloucester (10/09/18) and the 08:58 (30/09/18).

However my most recent one was the 11:22 from Birmingham New Street to Stamford (2-car 170) on the 15/06/19. No tickets were on the seats. But thankfully I managed to get my reserved seat (A50) which I clicked on on the XC seating plan - the 2 young ladies weren't particularly happy at moving.

Opposite me, 2 older people weren't so fortunate - one of the same 2 young ladies had the cheek to say something like 'It doesn't say it on the seats' when the older lady said something like 'Yes but they're our seats'. At least there was a simple explanation - there was a printer issue at Birmingham New Street.

Luckily on the 16:05 back from Stamford to Birmingham New Street there were tickets in operation.

I'm a strong believer in your seat reservation not existing if the coach and seat number on your ticket doesn't exist.

 

[yorksrob]

My personal default tends to be that reservations are more trouble than they're worth, however if you're going to have them and then cancel them, you should at least leave passengers in no possible doubt that they've been cancelled, so that passengers aren't left swinging in the wind when the more volatile elements arrive.

 

[yorksrob]

I wouldn't always take notice of the 'No Seat Reservations' message - on the 05/12/19, the 10:20 from Oxford to Worcester Foregate Street, it said that at Oxford and the reservations were working.

2 or 3 times I think I've been on an IET where the screens are blank, + no tickets in the seats, and nothing said on the information screens: 17:26 from Worcester Foregate Street to Oxford (26/02/18), 10:17 from Didcot Parkway to Gloucester (10/09/18) and the 08:58 (30/09/18).

However my most recent one was the 11:22 from Birmingham New Street to Stamford (2-car 170) on the 15/06/19. No tickets were on the seats. But thankfully I managed to get my reserved seat (A50) which I clicked on on the XC seating plan - the 2 young ladies weren't particularly happy at moving.

Opposite me, 2 older people weren't so fortunate - one of the same 2 young ladies had the cheek to say something like 'It doesn't say it on the seats' when the older lady said something like 'Yes but they're our seats'. At least there was a simple explanation - there was a printer issue at Birmingham New Street.

Luckily on the 16:05 back from Stamford to Birmingham New Street there were tickets in operation.

I'm a strong believer in your seat reservation not existing if the coach and seat number on your ticket doesn't exist.

In the second experience you quote, was there anything to say whether seat reservations were in operation or not ?

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

In the second experience you quote, was there anything to say whether seat reservations were in operation or not ?

As regards the Stamford trip, no. I think it must have been very short notice that the printer wasn't working.

When ever I've caught an IET, I've not once had both the experience of 'No Seat Reservations' on the platform screens followed by no reservations on the actual train.

In fact since December 2018, reservations on the IET's have been in evidence with both the screens and tickets or both - no set back yet!

 

[yorksrob]

As regards the Stamford trip, no. I think it must have been very short notice that the printer wasn't working.

When ever I've caught an IET, I've not once had both the experience of 'No Seat Reservations' on the platform screens followed by no reservations on the actual train.

In fact since December 2018, reservations on the IET's have been in evidence with both the screens and tickets or both - no set back yet!

This is the first occasion I've experienced it, but my travelling companions have had it previously.

 

[bramling]

My personal default tends to be that reservations are more trouble than they're worth

I wholeheartedly agree with this, just get rid of the damn things.

 

[yorksrob]

I wholeheartedly agree with this, just get rid of the damn things.

I must admit, SWT manage long distance services and AP tickets without the hassle of seat reservations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must admit, SWT manage long distance services and AP tickets without the hassle of seat reservations.

They do this largely by providing enough capacity. Mind you with all the 80x on stream that should be the same on GWR, too - I've done a load of walk-up travel on them recently and on no occasion did I have to stand.

 

[43096]

I wholeheartedly agree with this, just get rid of the damn things.

Agreed. It is wrong that “booked train” only cheap fares get an automatic reserved seat, whereas those who pay full whack don’t. Either abolish them or have them available for a £10 fee or whatever. Exceptions for the elderly/disabled etc where the fee would be £0.

 

[yorksrob]

They do this largely by providing enough capacity. Mind you with all the 80x on stream that should be the same on GWR, too - I've done a load of walk-up travel on them recently and on no occasion did I have to stand.

There was absolutely no problem with capacity on the train in question though. There were only four other seats occupied in the whole carriage.

The problem was entirely due to the fact that the reservations were null, yet no one made any attempt to tell passengers joining the train.

 

[Parallel]

It’s incredibly annoying at Paddington when people board before the electrical reservation screens are switched on and arguments ensue.

 

[Ivor]

I was travelling to South Wales last month via GWR & had a seat reservation, halfway through the journey a ‘lady’ joined at Bath aggressively stating I was in her seat, looking at her reservation & mine (I boarded 1.5 hours prior) we both had the same seat allocated.

Train wasn’t half full, no apology from her but I insisted after her attitude that she had the seat & I moved.

 

[richa2002]

The abolition of reservations would kill long distance rail travel for me. By all means have a modest per ticket fee such as £2 to ensure those who reserve actually need to but total abolition would be absurd.

 

[trebor79]

However my most recent one was the 11:22 from Birmingham New Street to Stamford (2-car 170) on the 15/06/19. No tickets were on the seats. But thankfully I managed to get my reserved seat (A50) which I clicked on on the XC seating plan - the 2 young ladies weren't particularly happy at moving.

So there were no reservations on the train and you turfed them out of the seat anyway (presumably with other seats available as you say later they refused to move again for someone else).
I wouldn't have been happy about it either. I think I'd have politely suggested you sit in one of the available seats and gone back to my newspaper.

 

[yorksrob]

So there were no reservations on the train and you turfed them out of the seat anyway (presumably with other seats available as you say later they refused to move again for someone else).
I wouldn't have been happy about it either. I think I'd have politely suggested you sit in one of the available seats and gone back to my newspaper.

It seems like another case where GWR should have made it clear that the reservations were void.

 

[Qwerty133]

It seems like another case where GWR should have made it clear that the reservations were void.

I really don't think it's GWR's to notify passengers on a XC service calling only at Network Rail, WMR, EMR and Greater Anglia managed stations...

 

[Bletchleyite]

So there were no reservations on the train and you turfed them out of the seat anyway (presumably with other seats available as you say later they refused to move again for someone else).
I wouldn't have been happy about it either. I think I'd have politely suggested you sit in one of the available seats and gone back to my newspaper.

XC, like VTWC, I think operate the policy that reservations apply even if unmarked. This gives all the more reason why there should be signs stating what the policy is.

 

[yorksrob]

I really don't think it's GWR's to notify passengers on a XC service calling only at Network Rail, WMR, EMR and Greater Anglia managed stations...

Apologies - for GWR, read XC. My point still stands.

 

[trebor79]

XC, like VTWC, I think operate the policy that reservations apply even if unmarked. This gives all the more reason why there should be signs stating what the policy is.

I didn't know that. I'd still be inclined to tell the person claiming the seat to buzz off if there are plenty of others available.

 

[yorksrob]

XC, like VTWC, I think operate the policy that reservations apply even if unmarked. This gives all the more reason why there should be signs stating what the policy is.

I think that having invisible reservations is as much a recipe for discord as cancelling reservations and not telling half the passengers about it. But then XC did come up with a system where your seat could be reserved underneath you, so its not surprising.

 

[yorksrob]

Seat reservations in dissarray again today. They need to give up on this electronic rubbish.

 

[yorksrob]

Chatting to friends who've also travelled on Great Western, they were chatting to another passenger who had apparently witnessed a physical altercation between passengers due to reservations not being shown and no announcements being made en route.

Have any GWR staff on here had any experience of this policy and do they have any views on it ?

 

[PeterC]

There was absolutely no problem with capacity on the train in question though. There were only four other seats occupied in the whole carriage.

The problem was entirely due to the fact that the reservations were null, yet no one made any attempt to tell passengers joining the train.

Sounds like a journey that I made in France once with 6 people in the carriage including myself and SWMBO and two elderly gentlemen arguing over who had more right to the priority seats for the disabled.

 

[Mag_seven]

Seat reservations in dissarray again today. They need to give up on this electronic rubbish.

Just how long do Hitachi need to get such a basic thing as electronic seat reservations working! The class 800s have been in service for months now!

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds like a journey that I made in France once with 6 people in the carriage including myself and SWMBO and two elderly gentlemen arguing over who had more right to the priority seats for the disabled.

Perhaps, if one or both of them have pre-booked the priority seat.

Just how long do Hitachi need to get such a basic thing as electronic seat reservations working! The class 800s have been in service for months now!

Yes, it seems to be extremely hit and miss.

On my own journey this morning they were having trouble with the systems. They managed to get the carriage letters in sequence, but the individual reservations weren't working.

 

[Mountain Man]

The abolition of reservations would kill long distance rail travel for me. By all means have a modest per ticket fee such as £2 to ensure those who reserve actually need to but total abolition would be absurd.

Why would it be absurd?

 

[6Gman]

Why would it be absurd?

Because if a (potential) passenger is unable to stand for the length of the journey they would probably opt for another means of travel.

 

[alxndr]

I had seat reservation chaos the other week. Got on in Doncaster, seat reservations in my carriage weren't working and announcements were made. Not a problem, I just found another seat. One or two people moved when people with reservations turned up. Same with the next stop, a few disgruntled people, but it smoothed out quickly enough. By the second stop, however, the seat reservations were working again. Cue arguments everywhere between people who were already sitting in that seat when the reservations weren't working, and those who had boarded with a reservation that was by that point displayed. Fortunately the person next to me and myself volunteered our seats to the couple with reservations as it was getting a touch heated with people chipping in with their opinions on the matter.

In my opinion it would have been better to leave them broken and just announce that they're not working in that scenario.